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Discussion on Lilly's First Foal Died This Morning | |
Author | Message |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 12:11 pm: The foal was presented with the head bent back. The vets were called before the water broke, but she was already pushing so hard they couldn't get their hands up in to push the foal into the correct posistion. It was dead before they got it out. At least Lilly is fine physically, just a little tearing around the vagina. It was a perfectly formed bay colt with a white star and stripe. I am going to go see her tomorrow. Do you think I should have her foaled out next time at a repro specialist, Dr. O? The vet said it was just bad luck and there is nothing that indicates there is anything wrong with Lilly in her ability to carry to term and give birth. She is currently at a TB brood mare farm. They foal out around 20 foals a year.Alicia |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 12:59 pm: I'm so sorry, Alicia. Unfortunately, these things happen. Dr. O will have to comment re: this incident and if there was anything that could have been done like maybe a muscle relaxent for the mare, but often there is just nothing that can be done. Unless you can go to a specialized neonatal clinic, a large breeding farm will usually have more experience than the vet clinics, even repro ones. |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 1:26 pm: Sara,I got a few names, and plan on asking my vets what they think I should do. She was 11 days early, so I would want to probably send her a month before her due date. The names I have are Dr. Paul Loomis in Colora Maryland, Dr. Vito Delvento in Paeonian Springs (I think this is in VA), and Dr. Bill Ley in Millwood Virginia. I have a while to get this settled, but I like to plan ahead. Alicia |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 6:03 pm: I am so sorry Alicia...and thank the Lord for the mare being Ok.My first thought is like your vets, there is no reason why this mare will be at increased incidence next year, but is that true? I have no studies in horses to reference, just a small amount of experience with such mares, and I cannot ever remember such a mare having problems the year after. Hmmm, are there no othe details at all that are just not quite normal? DrO |
Member: Jodeen |
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 6:45 pm: I am sorry for your loss Alicia, I have a mare that we lost a foal to that very same problem 2 years ago. She has since foaled out twice with no problems what so ever. the last being just last tue. morning. after watching her hourly on the monitor all night long, she slipped the little guy out between 5 am and 6:30 am. obviously without problem. (and yes I missed it) So have hope. and again, i am so sorry for your loss. funny how attached we become to the little ones before they even hit the ground. |
Member: Sunny66 |
Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 11:45 am: Oh Alicia, I'm so sorry. (((Hugs))) |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 1:23 pm: Dr. O.,Well here is what was described to me. The foaling farm noticed she was in labor yesterday morning but "something was not quite right". So, they called the vet before her water even broke. When they arrived, she was pushing very hard, and the vet couldn't get his hand in her canal, so they administered some kind of relaxant. Apparently, by that time, it was too late to save the foal, so they pulled it out. There is worse news from this morning. She is now at New Bolton. Apparently the "superficial" tear they saw yesterday is more substantial. They think her abdominal contents are coming out through her vaginal canal. I just talked to NB, and they don't think it is the abdominal contents, just superficial fat. I hope so!! I will try to update when I have an update to give. Dr. O., I just thought maybe it would be safer to send her to a repro clinic next time just in case. I have been given several names and plan on checking on them. Of course, I have to wait and she how she comes through this! Alicia |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 2:07 pm: Alicia, so sorry your mare is having to go through all this. I have a friend who raises TB's and she had a mare foal unexpectidly and early so she was at work when the mare foaled. The mare had a very difficult time, with severe damage and tearing. So bad she had to have reconstructive surgery. Amazingly enough, two yrs. later the mare foaled again, on time and with no problems. |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 2:27 pm: Thank you all for the kind words and encouragement. I just got off the phone with the barn managers at the foaling place. It looks like it was just superficial, and they plan on tying off the fat and keeping the area open to drain. She is on intravenous antibiotics and pain medicine, and they plan on keeping her there for at least a few days. They think at this time that she should be breeding sound, but not this year. Infection is the danger now, and with her there and on intravenous antibiotics, and the fact that her temperature is normal right now, things are looking better. They all love her too, and some remember her from when she was there about 4 years ago with an ovarian hemotoma.It is nice to hear all the sucess stories, I really want a foal from this mare, she has such a great personality and if she was an inch taller, or had an inch longer stride would have been the perfect hunter. I thank you all again for your prayers and well wishes! Alicia |
Member: Dyduroc |
Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 9:59 am: Alicia, I'm so sorry about the foal and hope your mare makes a full recovery.dyd |
Member: Redalert |
Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 10:09 am: Oh,Alicia...thank goodness for the "fat" not the "abdominal contents." I will keep following your posts, and pray for you and your wonderful mare, who you obviously love so much!One word of advice, if you send your mare anywhere else for foaling out next time, she needs to be at the new place at least 60-90 days before foaling out so that she gets all the antibodies going that the new foal might need in the "new" environment. And it sounds like the place where all of this happenned is well informed and looks like they did the best they could, and it looks like they saved your mare's life... knowing what you know now, might she be best taken care of at the same place? Just a thought, and you surely know more about the whole situation and your mare! I'll be following your posts and look forward to the time when you can post "all is well"! Nancy |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 9:54 am: Thanks dNancy, I have a while to figure out what I am going to do. I plan on letting Lilly rest for a year and re breeding her early next year. Where she will be, I am not sure yet. I do beleive the place she was at did all they could, but they didn't have the facilities and equipment to do more, and other places do. I understand it is common for folks to send their mares out for just the foaling, am I mistaken? Even at the place she is at, lots of mares come in less than a month from their due dates. Oh, update wise, she is doing very well. I last talked to them Saturday, and the attending vet even asked if I wanted to breed again this year, as she thought that was viable. I am not going to, but that shows how much better she is. Alicia |
Member: Redalert |
Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 7:19 pm: Sounds like she is recovering well ... so glad to hear that for you both! I don't know about the way most folks send their mares out for foaling, so maybe DrO can tell you about that .Any way, I love your horse's name. I have both a daughter and a horse named Lily(spelled a bit differently than yours). One is Lily and one carries the name of Wild Lily, though the names can be interchanged depending on the day! I bet you will be glad to get your Lilly home where you can give her some personal TLC. Again, so happy to hear things are progressing well. All the best to you both! Nancy |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 6:50 am: Delighted things are going well Alicia, I could not make head nor tails of the "tying off the fat" information above so had been unsure.We use to foal out mares for folks because we had warning systems and cameras. It is very time consuming so somewhat expensive. As my wife and I got older we found we missed the sleep too much so don't do it anymore. Our biggest concern was for the mare settling down so we always wished to get them at the beginning of the last trimester but sometimes things would happen and the mares arrive the week they were due. Over a decade and several scores of births, almost all did fine, we did have several dystocias, a leg or head stuck back, that we were there for it and could quickly straighten it out so saved the foal. The worse thing to happen was a ruptured uterine artery of a mare carrying a foal from our stallion. We had formerly owned this mare so knew her well and this was a very sad time. The foal lived but the mare bled out. I guess the point of this is to emphasize the give and take in owning and breeding horses. Life goes on but not without risk, some of which would not matter where the mare was. DrO |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 11:47 am: Thanks again all, you really make me feel goodDr. O., She is ready to come home, but hasn't started the journey as I need to find someone to trailer her. She is on oral antibiotics and anti-inflammatories. My barn manager has no issue medicating her. Anyway, in talking to the farm she was at, I have made tentative plans. I plan on keeping her at "home" (where my gelding is boarded) until about January. Send her to the same farm then (I plan on starting her on lights around mid December, via their suggestion) until she is ultrasounded at 45 days. Then, either bring her back home or leave her there, haven't quite decided that one. Then, one month prior, send her to New Bolton to foal out. That way, she can be ultrasounded daily and will be close to equipment should a c section be necessary. Supposedly, daily maintenance is not too expensvie there, I will probably be paying about 600 a month, not too bad. The main thing I am worrying about now is how to switch her from what she was eating to what we have. We have no grass, and she was on 24 hour turnout on grass at the other place as well as about 15 pounds of grain and 2 cups oil. I am thinking alfalfa and beet pulp, along with her regular feed they were feeding and the 2 cups of oil a day she gets (she has EPSM). Our barn recently switched to Blue Seal and Pennfields feeds, and they have lots of options for EPSM horses, so I will probably gradually switch to one of those. She is about an 8.5 on the condition scale right now, and I want to keep her at 7 (I think she is too fat, the barn she was at thinks she is good). New Bolton said I could start her back in work immediately, and I plan on doing walk and gentle trot only for at least two weeks and then starting harder stuff. I also plan on having her turned out 24 hours until it gets too hot to do so. Is there anything I missed? Alicia |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 1:56 pm: Regarding the problem Lilly had, I have a question concerning what shape all you breeders keep your mares in.She was a performance mare, a show hunter, for the time I owned her, about 4 years. She had come off the track and been started straight on field hunting with no time off. She had always been a hard keeper, and had EPSM or something similar. Anyway, I decided when I bred her that she should have some time off, so since last April, she has been at the brood mare farm with no work, just sitting out eating grass and getting fed a LOT of grain along with her usual 2 cups of oil a day. She has gotten really fat, and I have never seen her this way. I think she is too fat, but the farm likes her this way to foal out. She is about an 8.5 on the condition scale. My last mare to foal was more like a 7, and had no problems whatsoever. I rode her till about 10 months. My limited experience has me wondering if I did the wrong thing by letting my current mare rest so long. I plan on bringing her home, getting her in shape, rebreeding early in the year, leaving her there till she is confirmed at 45 days, and bringing her back and continuing to ride her then send her off to New Bolton to foal out. Is this common, or do most of you folks just let broodmares be broodmares. This is a copied post from another list, pardon if it has info everyone already knows. Thanks, Alicia |
New Member: Dreamon |
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 3:09 pm: Alicia, so sorry to hear about your loss. My husband and I foal out Standardbred mares for people (the mares live at our farm year round), plus we have our own mares. Every year there seems to be at least one unexplained difficulty. Our mares mostly live outside from the time the foals are weaned to one or two months before they foal. They are not thin by any means. We do however limit their grain intake until after they foal and try to to get too much extra fat on them. They are not however underweight by any means. |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 3:14 pm: We have some mares that are just broodmares, but also have bred some of our show horses. If they are coming off the show circuit, they need several months to relax and "let down" and get into the routine of just "being a horse."It's my opinion that if a horse is too fat she is harder to get bred and it's harder for them to foal out. The mare should be in good condition, leaning towards the "plump" side before they foal, imo, But not fat. I think exercise is great for the mares, even the "just broodmares" are turned out, put on a hot walker, or hand walked. The ones that can be ridden are ridden lightly until the saddle will no longer fit, then they are sometimes ridden around bare back. The really pregnant ones get hand walked if they can't be turned out. The movement is not only good for the foal, but helps the mare keep from accumulating fluids in her legs and belly. I think the only time I wouldn't ride a pregnant mare is the period between when she was bred and when the foal becomes attached, and when she is getting near foaling and is miserable feeling (All the mothers out there know that feeling!) |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 3:17 pm: Alacia - I don't think the foal's problems could have been prevented by your mare being thinner, or by getting more exercise. I honestly don't think it was anything you could have had any control over. |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 3:58 pm: Thank you Sara, I just can't help but feel partially at fault. I think this time I will exercise her. She won't be shown, or even go off the farm except for breeding and foaling out. I am glad exercise is not looked at as taboo at least to some folks. I do intend on not riding her at all while she is being bred, for about 2 or 3 months.I will start her back up, then go as she "tells" me. Thanks Alicia |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 6:31 am: I prefer to foal out mares in a 6 to 7 condition. Though obesity increases dystocia in cattle, studies have not found a similar problem in horses so I don't think that was the problem. Sometimes these things just occur Alicia and are not preventable.DrO |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 10:34 am: Dr, O,I am glad someone with a lot of experience agrees with my idea (the 7 on the scale). I will aim for that. I may have a ride to bring her home Saturday, and we have a plan for introducing her new feed and she will be isolated for a week when she arrives to become acclimatized. I plan on starting her back slowly with walking for two weeks, then slowly introducing trot, after about another two weeks we will introduce canter again. I still feel at fault, because if she had been at a hospital, the baby almost certainly would have been saved. I am going to start saving to send her to New Bolton. She can go 6 weeks ahead of her due date, and one cost covers care and any diagnostic and sugical expenses. It is 2800, which is not cheap, but if you take out of that ultrasounds almost daily during the last few weeks and paying for surgery if needed, I think it is worth it. I guess my inheritance I am getting in a few months will have to be saved! Alicia |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:44 am: And if she contracted Salmonella at the hospital, a common complication of being in a equine hospital, would you also feel responsible for that? Or say while you are moving her to a breeding farm there is a trailer accident, or when you get there she runs through a fence in the new surroundings, and this results in abortion or death? Would you then be responsible for that? You cannot make life riskless Alicia you need to quit feeling responsible and realize this is life.DrO |
Member: 36541 |
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 9:10 am: Hi Alicia,I'm so sorry for your loss, but so thankful with you that you still have your special mare. Two years ago I had a horrible breeding season - lost one foal and very nearly lost the other to patent urachus and neonatal sepsis. I am taking some time off from breeding - just enjoying the five I have! I was provoked to write because I think you are not letting yourself grieve this experience yet, kind of getting caught up in what to do next and what to worry about next. Try just to enjoy your lovely, valuable friend this summer and fall, and things will sort out in a little while. Incidentally, my maiden mare did not seem much affected by the loss of her foal, while when one of my experienced ones had a still born at 10 months, she was depressed for 3 months. I hope your mare will enjoy you again - she has probably missed the work and attention! I delivered humans for 5 years, and reiterate Dr. O's advice about the bad stuff happening anywhere and with little warning, always to the least deserving. My best wishes as you try to take this one day at a time... Stacy |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 10:18 am: A good post, Dr. O. |
Member: Sunny66 |
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 10:37 am: Alicia,I see you've received some of Dr. O's good *therapy* ...he is right you know. Horses can break our hearts and mend our hearts at the same time. What amazing creatures they are. Take good care of yourself. |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:21 am: All,I am not stopping life I have been working with my gelding and continuing on. Lilly comes home tomorrow, and I will begin to condition her and hope she is amazed by how much better of a rider I have become over the past year (I wonder, for real, if she will notice?). I did not greive because 1) I wasn't there 2) I didn't even see the colt 3) I hadn't been too involved. Is it wrong not to spend hours crying? I have shed a few tears, and been feeling down, but I just keep going. That is why I want to do it diffrently this time. I do understand this stuff happens, and I don't feel responsible anymore. I will, however, endeavor to do my best the next time to keep her healthy and happy, and if my best costs me a little more, so be it! Thanks all Alicia |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 3:54 pm: Nothing wrong with the tears at all, I recommend them, even encourage them! We should mourn the loss of love or perhaps even potential love. But this really was not your fault, as you seem to have come to terms with.Life is a series of choices that we make. When our choices turn to doo-doo, we think, "I should of made that other choice", not thinking what bigger pile might have laid down that other road. Better is to wipe off our shoes and enjoy the scenery, which again seems to be were you are heading. I am climbing off my box and apologize if I have gotten to personal. DrO |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 11:59 am: Dr. O.,Not at all, I appreciate the thought and caring On the good side, she made it home safely Saturday. She looks good, and seems comfortable. She is still too fat, and I plan on working on that. Good news is she LOVES the fibergized. She is on two pounds a day right now, and unlimited hay, which she doesn't eat much of. She is also on 20 tablets of sulfa twice a day and paste banamine till tomorrow morning. She is getting an exam Friday to determine if there is damage to the cervix and to replace her temporary caslicks with a permanent one. I gave her a bath and clipped her Saturday, she was a doll. She has pretty bad scratches on her fetlocks, and I am working on that. She is being isolated for a while to make sure she didn't pick up something at the hospital. All in all, she seems to have come through well. I think her not seeing the dead foal was a good idea. Hopefully she doesn't know what happened. Thanks again all of you! Alicia |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 2:14 pm: Alicia - I'm glad your mare made it home o.k. and is doing well. I'm sure with your efforts she will be fine and be ready for you to try again next season. She will appreciate all your personal attention after being at the hospital. Good luck with her. |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 - 3:56 pm: Hi again all,Lilly is doing well in general, but has started something strange that I had to post about. She had an adhesion on her cervix that is now better, and has some urine pooling in her vagina. The vet thinks it is because she lost so much weight, that her anus is sunken in. I tend to agree. She is putting on weight, slowly, and I am riding her and building her up slowly. She has been flushed three times in three weeks for what the vet thinks is a local infection in her uterus caused by the poop going in there. The vet plans to eventually put in a permanent caslicks. Anyway, in the past month, she has had three "episodes". They are colic like, but then not colic like. I had posted in the past about her doing this during her heat cycles. We ended up managing them using bute the day before she was set to cycle and for that week. That worked well, except when she would start early. These episodes are very similar to what she used to do during her summer cycles. Two of the three, however, were a lot worse. Last night she had one. She starts by looking depressed, which leads to her laying down, then rolling, then stiffening her hind legs out and rolling and moaning. I gave her banamine last night and when it went into effect, she was instantaneously better. I was not present for the other two, but she got better the same in those two. The barn manager seems to think she is having seizures, which I find unlikely. Anyway, there is no trigger I can find (time of day, temperature, exercise, food, attitude). If this was a chronic problem wouldn't she be in pain constantly? Why would this happen only three times in a month? This is the main thing I don't get. She was exercised last night, and it was very hot, but I waited until 8:30 so it would be cooler. She was only ridden 30 minutes, and no harder than she has been ridden lately. She had been back in her stall for about 5 minutes when she started looking ill. I had cooled her out same as usual and hosed her off. The other more severe case happened in the afternoon (around 3) about a month ago. It was not very hot, and she hadn't eaten since the morning. She had had a uterine exam complete with tranquilizer and had had her teeth done (no tranq for that) that AM around 10. She had not been ridden that day and the horses are in during the day, so she had just been resting in her stall with hay to eat. The other time happened in the afternoon in good temperatures, she hadn't been ridden and had eaten breakfast. Any clues? My vet is going to ultrasound her and draw blood today. She thinks it has to do with her reproductive tract still healing. Also, I am wondering how expensive and troublesome doing an embryo transfer is? I may try this to spare her another pregnancy. If I don't do that, I also need information from breeders on what is the best light to buy to put her under in December. I know, a lot of info and questions. Thanks all!!! Alicia |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Jul 31, 2005 - 11:17 am: Hello Alicia, what did your vet find on the exam as there are no clues above as to what might be the cause?For more on lights see, Equine Reproduction » Horse Breeding & Artificial Insemination » Stimulating Mares to Cycle Early and for info on Embryo Transfer see Equine Reproduction » Horse Breeding & Artifical Insemination » Embryo Transfer. DrO |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 2, 2005 - 1:09 pm: Dr. O.,She took a culture which isn't back yet (at least she hasn't called me with the results). She ultrasounded her and said she is much better than the last time she was ultrasounded (which was the week after she came back from the hospital, so about 8 weeks ago). My vet thinks the episodes were because of pain from being in heat. I guess it is just worse now because her uterus is not quite there yet. She always did have painful heats, just not this bad. I am considering getting her ovaries out after I finally do get a baby out of her for her comfort. The article on lights you put together helped a lot. I just need to know where to buy them and how to install them now! Alicia |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005 - 7:09 am: When working with electricity in a barn environment I strongly recommend you contract a electrician and have the wires placed in grounded conduit. Barn fires are just too devastating to cause an increased risk with improperly installed electrics.DrO |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005 - 11:28 am: Dr. O.,Got the results. She still has an E Coli infection in her uterus. My vet is going to do another three day run of flushes. She is going to use DMSO this time. She also is calling a repro vet in our area about using hyDrOgen peroxide. She was told this doctor found it to work well on this type of infection, but she wonders whether it would be too harsh as it destroys tissue. Any info on this? She is also going to do a biopsy to see how deep the infection is. She also, bless her, offered up her own mare to use as a recipient mare if I decide to do the embryo transfer. She just loves Lilly, and I guess feels a bit responsible, though she didn't get there in time to really do anything through no fault of her own. Alicia Oh, yes, I will look into an electrician, thanks for the wake up on that. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Thursday, Aug 4, 2005 - 1:09 pm: What did the cytology results say Alicia, almost all mares have some E coli as a contaminant in their reproductive tract. For more on this see Equine Diseases » Reproductive Diseases » Trouble Settling Mares & Stallion Infertility » Uterine Culture and Cytology.DrO |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Thursday, Aug 4, 2005 - 1:33 pm: She didn't tell me that, she just told me that Lilly still had an infection and that it was e coli. She is going to get a biopsy next week.Alicia |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Thursday, Aug 11, 2005 - 2:46 pm: Dr O.,My mare still is not getting better, and Dr. Tacia is recommending sending her to Equine Reproductive Concepts in Amissville Virginia. The doctors are Kevin Dippert and Steven Bartlett. She also has mentioned that she would let me use HER mare for embryo transfer if I want to go that route. She is a great vet and a great person. Alicia |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Friday, Aug 12, 2005 - 10:16 am: Let us know how it works out Alicia.DrO |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Friday, Aug 12, 2005 - 1:38 pm: Thanks We have an appointment for next Thursday at 12 noon.I will add to this to let everyone know. |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Friday, Aug 26, 2005 - 10:52 am: The appointment went and we have most of the results. Her vulva and the second barrier to infection (some muscle barrier, I don't remember what it is called right now) are compromised. The vulva can be fixed with a casliks, but the other, he isn't so sure about. The good news is that so far, there is no sign of infection, her cervix looks really good, and the uterus looked good bacteria wise. The bad things are the second barrier, and that she had a lot of air in there upon examination. We should be getting the last results back soon.She is still leaking urine, and it is pretty obvious the urethra suffered trauma during the birth. I guess I need to look into getting that fixed. Any suggestions on where to look? I do plan on calling New Bolton to let them know, as they did the original post birth care. Alicia |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Friday, Aug 26, 2005 - 2:23 pm: Dr. O.,Just did a search, and found out what part is damaged. It is the Vagino-vestibular sphincter. Can these be repaired? Alicia |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Saturday, Aug 27, 2005 - 11:58 am: Both your questions depend on what is specifically wrong with them. If there are lacerations that have healed poorly yes there may be surgical possibilities but if the damage is to the nerves, there is not much that can be done.DrO |
Member: Aannk |
Posted on Monday, Aug 29, 2005 - 11:04 am: Dr O.,Yes, there are lacerations that have healed poorly. She can contract it, apparently, the nerve damage seems minimal. I need to find out what facilities actually would be able to do this surgery. It is so sad to see urine in her vestibule every day and all over her back legs (I clean it up every day, but she is still getting irritation, especially right below the vulva). Got another call from Dr Dippert today. Lilly's biopsy came back a 2B. He thinks it is mainly because of the air she has in her uterus. He now wants my regular vet to check her 5 to 8 days after ovulation to see if the air stays in there the whole cycle, or if it is expelled when she goes out of heat. If it is expelled, that is good, as the cervix, when she is bred, should stay shut and keep the air out. If not, her prospects of carrying a fetus to term are poor. My vet's offer of me using her mare are still good, and I may do so. The cost is what will kill me there! I even have to pay more on the stud fee if I use embryo transfer, though I don't understand why. Alicia |