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Discussion on Precautions needed for miracle foal? | |
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Member: judyhens |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 11:18 am: We have an 18 year old Andalusian mare who developed heaves for the first time late last spring. She had delivered a foal and been re-bred a month or so prior to the onset of symptoms. Although she was confirmed in foal, the vet was not able to find a heartbeat at the follow-up exam. The mare was having enough difficulty breathing by that point that we did not rebreed. She was given steroids, brought into the barn from the pasture in an effort to reduce dust (which I know is counter-intuitive but they wanted us to change her environment in case the grass/ weeds were contributing), given “dust free” prepackaged hay, changed to Omolene 400 which Purina said was less allergenic for a horse with heaves, and was given other respiratory meds. She was in tenuous control, and lost a lot of weight. In addition to our local tertiary care center, we also took her to A & M for a second opinion re: breathing and to consult with repro specialists about potentially rebreeding in spring of 2011. (They recommended essentially what we were doing, and suggested embryo transfer or creating an air conditioned, air filtered place for her to live during the summer.) Her symptoms continued throughout last summer and early fall. She would be noticeably better following a steroid shot, then deteriorate by the time the next shot was due. However, by late fall, the symptoms resolved. She no longer needed shots, medicine, etc. She was returned to the pasture without any recurrence. Began gaining weight back and just acting like a normal, happy horse. Galloping and exercise no longer precipitated coughing. That brings us to the present.The mare has one of the kindest, most noble personalities imaginable and she has been an incredible producer. Her 5 year old stallion is going to be our “Grand Prix” horse in all likelihood. His dressage riders say he has both the athletic ability and mind to do it all. We have never ridden this mare – her sole job has been production. Each of her foals have sold (with the exception of the one we are keeping) as weanlings. I really can’t adequately put into words the peace you feel when you are around her….and she gives that same confidence and peace to her foals. So…figuring out a way to preserve her reproductive abilities without stressing her respiratory system is a high priority. We are in the process of getting bids re: construction of an air conditioned facility for her. Our goal is to get that built within a few weeks. Now to the miracle: We took Electra to the vet’s yesterday because we heard her cough a couple of times. Her lungs were still crystal clear, although her throat is apparently a little irritated. Because she had gained substantial weight and a couple of people had recently pointed out that she looked pregnant, we had the vet palpate her. A foal kicked the vet’s hand! She is due April 12th. We recently gave her the annual vaccinations, but because the vet didn’t find a heartbeat last June, we have not given her pneumabort K. Our current vet says since she is due in a month, not to give them at this point. Agree? We are upping her food somewhat and giving her alfalfa to increase her protein and calcium consumption for this month. With Electra’s history in mind, what are our chances of having a problem with her or the foal secondary to her breathing problems early in the pregnancy and possible recurrence? Should we foal her out at the vets? This mare & foal mean the world to us. We just want to be sure we have everything prepared and do everything possible to ensure a healthy outcome. Ideas re: treatment of heaves for the mare that won’t hurt the foal? Any input would be appreciated! Blessings, Judy |
Member: mrose |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 12:20 pm: Hi Judy, I have a concern that comes to mind. I know you have some beautiful horses; I've seen some of their pictures. I'm sure this mare is well bred and means a lot to you; there's no question she is beautiful. I can certainly see wanting to protect the foal she is now carrying. But, isn't the tendency to have allergies an inherited trait? If so, why would you want to breed more horses that will be so difficult to care for? Aren't there other mares that would cross just as well with the stallion you want to use? Or, am I wrong, and is this mare so sensitive because she's had a previous condition, like pneumonia, that affected her lungs and immune system? |
Member: canter |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 12:43 pm: Judy, I can't answer your medical questions, but wanted to extend my best wishes for the foaling. I will keep my fingers crossed that all goes well for both Electra and her baby. Please keep us updated. |
Member: judyhens |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 1:03 pm: Fran, thanks for your best wishes! Every positive thought helps!Sara, Electra never showed any sign of respiratory problem until last year at 17.5 years of age. She was bred prior to the onset of any symptoms whatsoever. In following her babies over the years (we keep track - they are like our grandchildren), none have shown any respiratory problems to date. So.... I guess I don't know what the root cause of last year's problem was. But, regardless, at the point of breeding in 2010, she had never shown a sign of this in 17+ years and was totally healthy and asymptomatic. So not breeding to avoid passing on an allergic condition was not even a consideration. :-) We are building a facility for her to hopefully avoid anything in the future. Our concern now is just maximizing the potential for a great outcome for this little miracle foal. Have a blessed day - and thanks again for your input! Judy |
Member: jhyrick |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 1:23 pm: I had a 23 year old mare that developed heaves. I did allergy testing, modified her diet and environment, kept her on med's, started the allergy shot monthly routine, AND most importantly bought a hay steamer from Happy Horse Products, USA. The portable one was less than $300.00 and it's been a miracle device in my opinion. It kills mold spores and eliminates dusty hay. It worked so well, I bought a larger unit and now all 3 of my mares get steamed hay and they all love it. No more coughing or congestion for the now 25 yr old. She acts like a 15 yr. old. I work in medical, so I treat the condition when possible, not just the symptoms.Dr. O's information really helped me to try other things. |
Member: mrose |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 1:37 pm: Judy, I certainly do hope you can protect this foal. The fact it is still viable is indeed a miracle with all that the mare has been through.Best of luck with her. The mare is beautiful, and I know she is special to you; I just had to voice my concerns about breeding her in the future. I'm going to look up that steamer JG talks about. Happily, we don't have any horses with heaves, but in a dry year it is almost impossible to grow or buy hay here that isn't dusty. I usually wind up wetting it down with a hose as I feed it. It sounds like the steamer would be helpful and easier. |
Member: judyhens |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 1:58 pm: Hi J.G. Thanks for the info! I am going to look that up immediately! Did your older mare just suddenly develop heaves, or did she have symptoms earlier? Has she had foals? Any problems with foaling?Hey Sara, you have a good point and one we will consider. We have zero experience with heaves - have never had it in any of our horses - including horses we have foaled out here - until Electra. (17+ years of breeding). I was trying to think back about anything that might have precipitated this re: infection, unusual hay, etc. Guess I need to revisit our records. Regardless, proper housing (or a lush green pasture) are in our future! Have a great day! Judy |
Member: mrose |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 2:23 pm: Judy, I wonder about strangles vaccine. One of our stallions had severe hives, so bad he had to be hospitalized for several days. We racked our brains, and the only thing we could come up with was he had his vaccinations the week before, which included strangles. He had trouble with hives for a couple of years after that and had to have corticasteroid shots as nothing else would affect the hives. After two or three years, he was never bother again. I've read that horses can have reactions to the strangles vaccine, and don't normally give it except to our show horses, which he is. Just a thought. |
Member: judyhens |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 3:52 pm: I'll check on that. I believe the show horses and breeding horses are given that vaccine. Although she isn't a horse we show, it is possible that she got it. This mare has been one of those horses that never gets sick, never gets injured (I can't remember one time she injured herself at all...). Is never lame. An incredibly easy keeper, low maintenance kind of horse. To have this happen last summer was devastating. Thankfully she has been asymptomatic since. Just want to take precautions against a recurrence. We are in Texas. Mold can be a problem. Dust/ blowing sand is very much a concern. We feel that if we take aggressive precautions now we can hopefully avoid a flare-up. Definitely worth a shot! Will check her record for vaccines. :-) |
Member: mrose |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 4:09 pm: Good luck! As I'm sure you've gathered from other posts regarding allergies/heaves and hives, it's tough to figure out. We changed everything, even where our stallion lived, and the only thing we could ever figure out was possibly the vaccine. He's had it since, but given by a different clinic and using a different brand and he's had no further problems. Keep us posted on how mare and foal do, and post baby pics, please! We aren't breeding our own mares now, so I have to enjoy foal season vicariously. |
Member: jhyrick |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 5:59 pm: https://www.happyhorseproducts.us/My mare had 10 foals before she ever showed signs of heaves. I still think it's when the boarding stable hired inexperienced helpers to feed, and they weren't careful about feeding hay if any had molded. All it takes is a heavy exposure to an irritant to cause an immune response that then creates a hypersensitivity. I'm just happy I've been able to return her a quality of life state, and it's really not a big deal for me to set up the steamer. A timer is beneficial. |
Member: judyhens |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 6:32 pm: J.G., Electra has had 10+ foals also. We haven't seen any evidence of respiratory problems in the foals...but then none of them are approaching 20 years old, either. :-) Have your foals been fine? My husband really wants us to order that steamer. Wants to take a preventative approach rather than wait to see what will happen. So far, despite the fact that she is within a month of term, her lungs remain clear. I think we need a lot of prayers for this little one! Without thinking she was pregnant, we sure gave her a lot of drugs early on. I think the vets had her on antibiotics too. Oh - I went to your website and your horses are gorgeous! A 1/2 Arabian filly, SL Anjum Magia, sired by one of our stallion, lives somewhere in the NW. I think she has been shown and done well in the 1/2 Arabian classes and movement. Thought you might enjoy seeing a video of an Hispano-Arabe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Ru1lpxDsIHave a great day guys! Thanks for all your input. I agree, Sara, it is sometimes difficult, if not impossible, to absolutely identify a cause. But...I am going to ck. on vaccinations and other possibly precipitating factors. Blessings, Judy |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2011 - 8:51 pm: Hello Judy,Do you suspect that Summer Pasture Associated Obstructive Disease is the cause of your horses heaves? But even considering this, I do not see a reason not to follow our recommendations in the article for vaccinating the mare see HorseAdvice.com » Equine Reproduction » Pregnancy, Foaling, & Neonatal Care » Pregnant Mare Care and Nutrition. As to problems you might expect the foal will exacerbate any problems she may have maintaining condition but the foal can always be weaned early. DrO |
Member: judyhens |
Posted on Thursday, Mar 10, 2011 - 10:21 am: Thanks for the info Dr.O. I really don't know what could have caused the mare's problems last year. However, one thing I found reviewing her history was possible exposure to a cough at the vet's office. We had her admitted to foal out about 2 weeks prior to her due date because we were leaving town. She went past her due date (unusual for her) and was mainly residing in one of the vet hospital's large foaling stalls. I seem to remember other horses coughing. Although I am foggy on the time sequence here, I believe she might have coughed occasionally after foaling and returning to our barn. Nothing serious - just an occasional cough - until later. Then we kept her in the barn (12 X 24 with a large paddock) once we started medicating her. Now I wonder if stalling her (which we rarely do) at the vets for several weeks, and exposure to coughing of other horses (although they religiously isolate horses with pneumonia) might has triggered this. If so, maybe keeping her in the pasture is the best way to go. The good news is her lungs are clear now and have been for months. - Re: Vaccinations. She is due in 4 weeks. Prior to knowing she was pregnant we gave her the 6-way vaccine a few days ago. So that worked out well. She is showing no udder development at this point. The vet was just suggesting that this close to delivery (she has gone 2 weeks early before so she could conceivably deliver in 2 weeks), we might want to hold off on the Pneumabort K. Are you thinking that is a mistake? Also, she is in good condition right now and we are upping her food a little and adding alfalfa. I am hoping that we can avoid a relapse all together. If not, I hope to maintain adequate weight as she begins lactation.Thanks for hosting this site. It really makes a difference! Blessings, Judy |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Thursday, Mar 10, 2011 - 9:28 pm: Judy, if you are asking my personal opinion, I don't recommend the Pneumabort K shot at all but this is covered in the article I reference above.DrO |