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Discussion on Lactating and edema at 30 days | |
Author | Message |
Member: Qh4me |
Posted on Saturday, Jul 2, 2005 - 9:09 pm: Hi,I have a mare who is 30 days in foal. This will be her 3rd and she had no issues with the previous 2. She is on Regumate and has been since 15 days before AI. I noticed 2 days ago that her bag was a little bigger than normal, so I went to feel around and my hand was wet. Looking closer, she seems to be lactating, a watery milk substance. Her udder isn't warm or hard. She also seemed to be in mild discomfort, as she was swishing her tail and crossing her back legs. I had the vet out to check her and we ultrasounded her (day 30) and everything from the ultrasound seemed 100%. The foals heartbeat was strong, CL was perfect etc. This morning I went out and gave her the Regumate, her grain, and then was grooming her. I was about to put her out into the pasture, and she started circling her stall and biting at her sides. When I looked, her one side and under her belly was in knots, and quivering. She had severe Edema, but just on the one side and under her stomach. It obviously came on within minutes of me grooming her. She still wanted to eat, so I called the vet and walked her until she arrived. She administered Benemine and some Antihistamine. All her vitals were perfect. Within about 1/2 hour, she was back to normal. The vet took a sample of her milk to see if there is anything abnormal. The vet is at a loss, and we called 2 local university's and they haven't a clue. Her last foal is 2 and last year she was left open. My first thought is that she is absorbing but when we ultrasounded her again today, the fetus has grown significantly from the ultrasound 2 days ago, and everything appears totally normal. My vet wondered if she got a bite and took a reaction to something, hence the antihistamines, but also suggested that maybe it is due to her lactating, and maybe it caused her to produce oxitocin and that is causing the cramping. I am concerned about the lactation this early in the pregnancy as well as this little bought this morning. My vet did say, I have the strangest case this month. Definately not a good thing! Would there be a chance that she is reacting to the Regumate? Maybe it has caused her hormones to get out of whack. Or is she about to absorb the fetus and it is just taking a long time? Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Jul 3, 2005 - 9:15 am: It is unlikely this is related to the Regumate, but you should be aware there is no work to suggest that its supplementation in early pregnancy helps maintain that pregnancy. Neither is resorption or early abortion a painful process for the horse. Nor does oxytocin effect skeletal muscles, like those that you describe knotted. Witches milk (inappropriate lactation) is a pretty common event in the mare, particularly when frequently bred and generally does not require treatment however pulling on the teats might stimulate oxytocin release: lets quit doing that.Judging by what you write, I think you are looking for a serious systemic event for what sounds like a local event: trauma or fly bite. DrO |
Member: Qh4me |
Posted on Sunday, Jul 3, 2005 - 10:33 pm: Thanks Dr. OThe reason we have her on Regumate is that we short cycled her and her first 2 foals, she was progesterone low, so decided to keep her on it for another 30 days. Yes, the only time we pulled was to get a sample but prior to that she was dripping. She has stopped dripping now, but she is still quite swollen. I just thought it was strange for this to happen so early on. She was crossing her legs and tail swishing alot, and then when she cramped up 2 days later, I was wondering if it was all related. I wasn't too concerned until I started talking to some folks, and they have had mares that start bagging up and lactating at 7 months and they aborted shortly after. I was just concerned that may be happening in this case. |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Sunday, Jul 3, 2005 - 11:39 pm: Had these "folks" mares had their Rhino shots? Has yours? |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, Jul 4, 2005 - 11:05 am: It is too early for EHV-1 (Rhino) abortion Sara. The bagging up late with abortion is placentitis, and you don't have a placenta yet Shawna. However a infection in the uterus might cause similar problems, it is good the ultrasound is normal. Though we know if you remove all sources of progesterone (the ovaries) absorption will follow, measurably low levels of progesterone in a otherwise normal mare has not been associated with an increase in early embryonic loss though this still remains a very popular practice.DrO |
Member: Qh4me |
Posted on Monday, Jul 4, 2005 - 11:51 am: I would prefer not to have her on Regumate, however, she absorbed in April, (was likely due to the fact that the semen got left at the Dallas airport and wasn't received for 48 hours and we insemintated post-ovulation) and her dates for her next go was to be in the middle of a long weekend, so we decided to put her on Regumate so we could better time the insemination. And the stallion farm that we deal with was pushing to keep her on it.I did not own the mare for the first foal, but her owner did tell me they had an awful time getting her to settle, and wasn't until they put her on Regumate. I bred her for the second foal, and everything went great, mind you, she was bred in June, and I believe that it is much easier to catch a mare in June when she is cycling normal, that attempting to play mother nature and get an early baby. Unfortunately, showing QH's, early babies are better, and that is why I was attempting an early foal, which in turn, turns out it will be a May baby now. I have heard conflicting talk about Regumate. Some mare owners keep them on it for 180 days while others take them off after 40 days? But from what you are saying DrO, am I just wasting my money here, and maybe could take her off now? When does the CL DrOp out of the picture? Is that not around day 40? |
Member: Qh4me |
Posted on Monday, Jul 4, 2005 - 11:54 am: Sarah, I am not sure about the other mare owners, I would imagine they had vaccinated though, as they have been breeding for years. As Dr O suggests, it is too early for EHV-1. My mare is only 30 days. She is fully vaccinated and will have her EHV-1 shots at 5, 7 and 9 months. |
Member: ldodson |
Posted on Monday, Jun 23, 2008 - 4:59 pm: For Dr.O and Shawna G.I've a mare who exhibited signs similar to Shawna's mare. She is is now 8 weeks in foal and started to lactate at 6 weeks. Just one day and not since then. She is also 20, this is her 4th foal. Her first died in utero but her last 2 were fine but she did retain the placenta on the last foal. She has been open for 2 years. Her weight is good, she eats and drinks well. Her feed is Timothy pellets, beet pulp, mare and foal. Her supplements are free salt block, Grand Meadows Hoof and Grand Meadows Vite. She does have a history of allergies but everything is controlled by diet. My question is, what happened to Shawna's mare and what was the cause. Thanks, Linda |