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Liz Krug
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jan 12, 2000 - 6:42 pm: |   |
My mare is flaxen chestnut. She is by a chestnut stud (who's sire was chestnut X dark bay) out of a drk.bay/brown mare (I don't know her parent's colors). I will breed my mare to a drk.bay/brown stallion (who is by a black out of a ?? mare).
Will the foal be bay? |
Heidi Wealleans
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 13, 2000 - 12:51 am: | |
What a question! A wonderful page on colour genetics can be found at http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/~lvmillon/coats.html with explanation of the genetic formula at http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/~lvmillon/coats2.html
Having said that, it all depends exactly what genes both your horses are carrying. Chestnut tends to dominate (as you can see by your mare's breeding), so don't be at all surprised if you get a chestnut foal!
It also depends on which gene alleles are passed on to the foal. There does seem to be a high percentage of bay in the ancestry of both parents, so you could be lucky. I know of a bay mare bred to a VERY chestnut stallion on five occasions and all the foals are bay!
I think colour genetics are very exciting - as with the birth of all foals. When they arrive, I am just pleased that they are born alive and well - colour is a bonus! Good luck with your breeding!
Heidi |
Liz Krug
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 13, 2000 - 8:58 pm: | |
Hi Heidi! Thanks for your input. I'm going to check out your sites! I know that my mare has gray horses (she does back to Donauwind (dark bay) who was by Pregel (gray)--also has 2 other grays in the 5/6th gen who were arabs. Her TB breeding goes back to the gray The Tetrarch, so I was alittle gray-worried! I'll be happy to have any healthy foal. I live in the Southeast and gray horses seem to become permenantly stained red from the red clay soil! |
Heidi Wealleans
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 14, 2000 - 1:25 am: | |
Hello Liz - that seems to be the main problem with greys - eh? Over here in the UK they either get stable stains or grass stains, and need lots of baths! But I wouldn't worry too much....
To be 'grey' or 'white' the horse requires:
a dominant G - greying gene,
dominant W - white gene (extremely rare in
TB's)
or dominantRN - Roaning (when roaned right out -
also rare in TB's)
It would be helpful to get the pedigree of the stallion you are hoping to use - if he is standing at commercial stud that should be no problem. This will usually list colours with the ancestors and you can follow the coat colours down the lines.
IF both the alleles on the E (ability to form black pigment)gene are EE in your bay stallion, then one of those will HAVE to be passed on to your foal. Your mare is chestnut which indicates two e's at the E gene.
So, if your stallion IS EE, the possible combinations are Ee Ee - and a Bay foal is defininte - even only one E means bay!
Unfortunately it is difficult to know if a bay or black is EE or Ee; If your stallion is Ee (which he will be if he is DEFINTIELY out of a chestnut mare and by a black stallion) then the picture changes. Possible combinations are Ee and ee so you have a 50/50 chance between bay and chestnut!
This is based on colour genes only. There is a chance of other things influencing colour inheritance. Hope this helps some, I haven't gone on too long and you've not got lost along the way! Heidi |
Liz Krug
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 14, 2000 - 4:47 pm: | |
Hi Heidi. Nope, not lost yet! Genetics is pretty interesting! The stallion I'm looking at is Babar, a SWB by Bellini. I'm waiting for the contract/pedigree to come from the owner, so maybe it will have colors on it.
Thanks again! |
Liz Krug
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 29, 2000 - 8:55 am: | |
Hi Heidi. I found out some more color info. The sire I'm interested in is dark bay/brown (by black sire out of brown mare).
The black sire is by a black sire out of ? mare.
The Brown dam is by a chestnut out of a dark bay/brwon mare (who was by a black). |
wendy clower
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 7, 2000 - 6:32 pm: | |
Color Genetics: I've been posting under Breeding and have just now fallen into your discussion. Did Babar's pedigree have colors? If not, how do you/did you find the info. ? |
Liz Krug
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 13, 2000 - 4:56 pm: | |
Hi Wendy. It's been a while since you posted, hope you're still out there. Babar's pedigree did not have colors on it. I contacted the Swedish Warmblood association in Sweden (via email) and asked them to send me the colors of the horses in 1st 5 generations. They did!
If you don't mind to pay $3 and have a TB, you can go to Equineonline at http://www.equineline.com. It's part of the Jockey Club.
I found lots of warmblood peds at Horse Information Systems at http://www.horses.nl/his. It (unfortunately) also costs money.. but I like researching peds, so I didn't mind. |
wendy clower
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 14, 2000 - 8:12 pm: | |
Hey Liz, yes I'm still here and trying to follow this very interesting subject. I applaud the Swedish Warmblood assoc. And your listed sites are a bonus! Thanks. With all the mixing (and mingling) these days, I think pedigree research is essential in promoting healthy, sound, companion horses. If you come across any other pedigree research areas specifically for horses, please let me know. I'll do same. Thanks again, Wendy |
Liz Krug
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 18, 2000 - 9:45 am: | |
SWANA has a link to SWB pedigrees that are free: http://wbstallions.com/wb/swana/
I also found a TB link that is free, but it didn't list colors on it, only ancestors: http://owl.frontier.com/pedigree/
Color genetics is really interesting. We've got 3 mares who will have 2001 foals, so it's been fun to research their peds and try to guess foal colors. |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 315
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 2:07 am: | |
OK, this post is really just an excuse to post a baby picture except I couldn't find the baby picture thread.
This one was born on May 1st so I'm looking for a suitably left wing name for her (suggestions welcome).
What I thought might be interesting on the colour front is that she should in fact turn grey as Dad (Grange Bouncer RID) has the double grey gene - all his other offspring are grey. Mum is by Cavalier HOL who had the double black EE gene and produced all black, seal brown or bay, but since she had a bay foal before by another sire I'm assuming she's Ee. On close inspection she has slight spectacles and white tips to the ears and muzzle plus the smallest white sock on one back leg so I think she will. Any guesses on how long it will take?
The guy at the foaling place doesn't believe she will go grey and wants to bet me a few drinks that she will stay bay - shall I take him on?
/image{Baggage's foal}
Many thanks to all who have given me advice along the way - I imagine it's only just starting!
All the best
Imogen |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 316
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 2:08 am: | |
OK, this post is really just an excuse to post a baby picture except I couldn't find the baby picture thread.
This one was born on May 1st so I'm looking for a suitably left wing name for her (suggestions welcome).
What I thought might be interesting on the colour front is that she should in fact turn grey as Dad (Grange Bouncer RID) has the double grey gene - all his other offspring are grey. Mum is by Cavalier HOL who had the double black EE gene and produced all black, seal brown or bay, but since she had a bay foal before by another sire I'm assuming she's Ee. On close inspection she has slight spectacles and white tips to the ears and muzzle plus the smallest white sock on one back leg so I think she will. Any guesses on how long it will take?
The guy at the foaling place doesn't believe she will go grey and wants to bet me a few drinks that she will stay bay - shall I take him on?
Many thanks to all who have given me advice along the way - I imagine it's only just starting!
All the best
Imogen |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 317
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 2:09 am: | |
Dunno what happened there at all. I'll try again.
Imogen |
Heidi Wealleans
Member
Username: Pones
Post Number: 103
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 2:53 am: | |
HI
The new baby thread is in:
Entertainment and Inspiration
My New Babies
Maybe you could post another photo of her there?!
I'd take him up on his bet, they usually grey out with every coat change - look at the lipizzaner foals - not completely grey until they have matured.
She may stay a rose grey for quite a long time (which I think is a wonderful colour!).
Good look and enjoy - well done!
Heidi |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 8309
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 7:50 am: | |
If it is true the stallion in homogygous grey, the baby will turn grey but as Heidi alludes it could be a long slow process.
DrO
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