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Discussion on Pregnant mare(60 days in foal) with Founder | |
Author | Message |
Member: Redalert |
Posted on Sunday, Aug 13, 2006 - 12:45 pm: Hello All, and DrO,My very special (of course) broodmare has foundered. She usually lives in the pasture and is an easy keeper. We have had unusually hot weather, and she has also chased the other mares away from their food bowls week before last (I was out of town), and then a wild windstorm, and a thunderstorm , and I came back to a foundering mare. The vet was out immediately and diagnosed a mild founder. We did radiographs so as to keep track of any rotation, and she prescribed 1g Bute twice daily for four days, ig once a day for two days, and then see how her pain is. She is in the stall with a restricted diet also, of course. Yesterday was the last day on Bute, and she seems uncomfortable today, not to the point of laying down, but still very tender walking in the hallway out of the stall. I am worried for her as well as her pregnancy. I read the articles on Founder in the HA, and wondered about using Ace instead of Bute, and mentioned this to my vet. She said not necessary except in acute cases, then she uses it every 4 hrs. or something. I just wonder about why not to use Banamine, since the article seemed to point in that direction. Do you think Banamine might be a more effective drug? AND, what do I have to watch out for as far as the pregnancy? It is Sunday, of course, and so I'll be asking all theses new questions of my personal vet tomorrow, but this is my first experience with founder, and, I guess I expected my mare to be much better today! I guess that I am expecting too much too soon, but I am so concerned about her welfare as well as that of her unborn foal! Any advice or personal experiences would be greatly appreciated! I'm so worried about my girl. Thanks, Nancy |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Aug 13, 2006 - 6:37 pm: Neither are specifically contraindicated during pregnancy. I am uncertain why you don't continue with the bute Nancy but if you are more comfortable with flunixin that is fine, what is important is that she be on a non-steroidal antiinflammatory drug as inflammation is part of the ongoing cause of the disease. Ace does not replace this treatment.DrO |
Member: Redalert |
Posted on Sunday, Aug 13, 2006 - 7:23 pm: Hey DrOI thought that the article on Founder stated that Banamine is less toxic in the short run, though I'm not sure what the short run is, and, endo Banamine (what exactly is that?) has been shown to block some effects of endotoxins on tissues. It sounds like even though there are no studies about using the two together (Bute and Banamine) that it might be better to add some Banamine into the regimine. Or should I just continue with the Bute? And, when should she begin to be sound again? She is going to be in the stall for at least 4 more weeks. How will I know the actual process of the insult of founder to the foot is over? I have never had a founder before, and I want to include anything in her regimine that might help her more than just the Bute, stall rest, and restricted diet, IF there is anything else to be done! Thanks so much, Nancy |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, Aug 14, 2006 - 7:25 am: It may be less toxic but neither are considered harmful to the pregnancy Nancy, it just is always wise to be careful during pregnancy. Your questions on founder depend on the cause, has it been corrected, the amount of rotation, and other factors like weight and hoof condition and there are always many unknowns that make prediction impossible and the indications she is getting better when you can lower her meds without returning lameness. This is explained in more detail in the article.DrO |
Member: Redalert |
Posted on Monday, Aug 14, 2006 - 9:26 am: Thanks for responding, DrO.I think the cause could have been the xtra feed she got for a week, by chasing others away form their feed bowls in the pasture, plus the fact that she was a bit overweight(she always immediately "blossoms" when she gets in foal), then the extreme heat, the high winds and thunderstorm, not to mention, that the grass greened up overnight and wah lah.... She is now in the stall with low starch feed, and I mix up timothy and coastal hay to keep before her. She has a fan also, and seems quite comfy, as long as she has Bute! You answered my main question about returning to soundness, as I was wondering whether to start back on the anti inflamatory yesterday (the regimine was supposed to be done and she was still ouchy). I do still wonder what "endo Banamine" means. And, I think I'll stick with some Banamine if my vet agrees... "less toxic" sounds good to me! Maybe, Bute in the A.M. and Banamine in the P.M. I'll see what she says. Like you, she is very tolerant of my 150 questions! Thanks again, Nancy |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 - 6:48 am: For long term use and to minimize ill effects you see some universities prescribing bute during the week and Banamine on the weekend but I do not know of any work to support this idea.DrO |
Member: Redalert |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 - 10:28 am: DrO...I think this COULD BE my last question (but not promising!) Does soaking the hay for a few hrs before feeding really "wash" out a lot of the sugars, and therefore make it a better hay to be fed at this time? And, I did decide to go with the Banamine for awhile, as I am really concerned about her digestive tract (her stools are becoming loose).Also, started her on Omeprazole. Thanks again for your information. It is just so hard to wait and let this take its course, so to speak. Good news, the radiographs showed no rotation, and just a mild inflamation at the white lines.(I think I said that as she said it to me) I guess that the radiographs we take later will be the answer as to how much, if any, real damage will have been done when she returns to soundness! Thanks again for your input. It is really hard for me to "sit still" through this! Nancy |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 - 7:41 am: I have read that it will remove some of the non-structural carbohydrates but imagine it will also remove minerals and vitamins. Looking at hay that has been rained on this seems logical. To what degree soaking helps or hurts, I have not seen any objective information. I prefer a good quality but stemmy (mature) hay to soaking and try to avoid using fescue but that is hard in this area.DrO |
Member: Redalert |
Posted on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 - 11:54 am: Thanks, DrO!Nancy |