|
|
Discussion on To breed or not to breed...
Use the navigation bar above to access articles and more discussions on this topic.
| Author |
Message |
    
Pamela Towne (Fototrop)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 9:41 am: |   |
Last year 77,000 horses were slaughtered in the United States. These were not just old, sick or injured with no hope of recovery. Of those, a great many were perfectly nice horses who had fallen on hard times. Many, many were registered.
If you just want to raise and train a foal, what about adopting a Premarin foal. They are available in all types and colors and are much less expensive than breeding and maintaining a mare.
If you really, really want to breed that mare, ask yourself two important questions. Is the resulting foal going to be so special or unique in some way that they are likely to be guaranteed a home for life or if not, are you willing to provide them a home for life? Or, if the answers to these questions is no, one last question, is it important enough to you to breed that it justifies the possibility of this baby ending up in a slaughterhouse yard 10 or 15 years down the road? |
D. Hembroff (Debh)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 5:44 pm: | |
Hi Pamela
Good point.
There is a place not far from where I live that is essentially a feed lot for horses. The fellow that runs it goes around to the local auctions, buys mostly yearlings or even weanlings, feeds them up to a certain weight then sells them off for slaughter. He does occasionally even end up with registered stock. A lot of these babies are PMU foals but, a fair percentage of them come from people who just had to have a baby, trouble is babies grow up.
Now as you all recoil in horror I must say in all fairness that these horses are well cared for during their stay on this farm and he does make every effort to resell to people who will make riding horses of them. I know a few people who have gotten good sound serviceable horses through this fellow.
It's not always old horses that end up at the slaughter house.
D. |
lynne ashforth (Lynnea)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 6:18 pm: | |
No horse should end up this way..Old or young. Of course the man takes care of them, the fatter they are , the more they are worth..Anyone that knows horses, also knows how intuitive they are, and realize those horses being loaded on trucks know exactly what their destiny is. That fear they must endure alone is cruelty at its best. I don't have the answer to this horrible problem, except for educating against NOT breeding and enlightening those who are unaware of the responsiblity involved in owning an animal that will wind up trusting you leaving its fate in your hands.. Maybe this makes it a moral issue, a matter of conscience , a maatter of the heart..Where best can people be reached? |
josephine milano (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 7:59 pm: | |
What do you do? I was thinking about the breeding process? I have second thoughts. Your post adds to the list of why I shouldn't. It makes for some very heavy thinking since I wanted to sell for profit. Which is the reason why everyone breeds. Does that make me a bad person? I read your post and the answer would be yes. But what about the many others out there who breed. Yearly. Some good. Some not. What do you say to them?
Years ago, I did break up with a boyfriend over the breeding of our dog. I DID NOT want to breed her. SAME reasons. Too many dogs and cats in this world. The Euthanasia for them is in the millions. Needless to say, he bred her. The litter wasn't all that great since I took 2 of them and know what the others must be like. Both are chronically ill with problems of the breed. By taking 2 am I paying penance? Sometimes I think so. Don't get me wrong, I love them and will always care for them, but they shouldn't have been bred because of the ego of the boyfriend.
Also, though, until you breed will you find out if you have the diamond everyone is searching for. Gee, wouldn't it be nice if I had the next Secretariat? Mr. Prospector, Unbridled?? make a million bucks.
It's terrible but we are gambling with lives. even if its not a human life.
You posted a very heady thread. And it made me think in a non-selfish way. |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 9:00 pm: | |
Hi Guys - I've been sitting here trying to think of a way to put my two cents in here without placing myself directly in front of a firing squad!
After half a lifetime spent riding & showing, my husband finally made my dream come true by buying me a farm where I could set up a small quality colored sporthorse breeding operation. I have been planning this for a long time, and yes - I plan to make a profit and enjoy myself immensely in the process.
So far we have two very well-bred Thoroughbred broodmares originally off-the-track, and I don't think I need to tell you where they were probably headed if not purchased for breeding. They are both wonderful, but one is so special she was inspected and graded premium by the Rheinland-Pfalz-Saar warmblood verband. Her first foal has been appraised at $12,000 as a weanling.
I spend my "non-barn" hours studying bloodlines, crosses, marketing, etc., etc., and am in a position where I can make a conscious decision as to the placement of the youngsters I bring into the world - or whether to sell at all (we're keeping the above little beauty for ourselves!). In addition, although certainly not "perfect" protection, I make it clear that if things do not work out I request 1) first choice buyback privileges, and/or 2) the opportunity to find - at no cost to the original buyer - another more suitable home.
I continue to make myself as knowledgeable as possible in all aspects of management and breeding - read voluminously all the national & specialty magazines pertaining to my interests, attend seminars, visit other breeding farms with stock comparable to mine, etc.
Although I am certainly sensitive to the plight of the many unwanted animals produced by the uneducated idiot fringe (in fact, my own riding horse is a rescue from a sleazy auction - and I love him to pieces), how exactly - and why - do you plan to "educate" me NOT to breed??
Bonnie |
lynne ashforth (Lynnea)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 9:45 pm: | |
No one wants to tell anyone what to do with their horses. It is just a matter of hoping to make those unaware of the problem that overbreeding has created , more aware and then perhaps letting conscience be the guide..Most of us, I believe, are only looking out for the horses and the more people that become aware of their plight, perhaps will give more thought to what they do and the future for horses could take a turn for the better. As posted above, 77,000 horses sent to slaughter is reason enough for me to speak out. . You have armed yourself with knowledge and that is great. It is your choice and I wish you and the horses the best. |
Susan Elliott (Susan1)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 9:55 pm: | |
I breed Friesian Sporthorses personally, and I have also been very involved in equine rescue. Yes, there are purebred, registered horses going to slaughter every day. This is the way I see it, and heaven knows, there are a variety of different approaches...mine is just one. For every foal I bring into this world with wild anticipation and much celebration, I also agree to save one horse from slaughter, and find it a new home. It is exhausting work, this year I am expecting a total of 8 foals, and that is a lot of rescue work to take on personally. But it is also extremely rewarding. I realize that not everyone would have the passion, drive, or resources to take on a goal like this. For me, it was what worked out best. A kind of equilibrium  |
josephine milano (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 11:18 pm: | |
Susan, you seem to be taking on the impossible. What if you start to breed 10 or more horses in a year? If you do the math, your heart might be in the right place, but the reality of the situation is that there would be 10 horses brought into the world and the 10 saved. So, instead of just 10 horses we now have 20. Multiply that by 10 years and 100's of people doing the same thing. At that point, we are going to have more horses at need for rescue, which would give rise to more people advocating slaughter. I think its a never ending problem.
Same problem with your good will, Bonita. Hopefully you will be able to place (over and over again) your precious brood as the years go on. But reality is as your breeding program grows you might lose track over the years and won't really know where they are. And the cycle continues.
But I don't think the two of you are the group lynne was targeting. They are the kind of people who wouldn't log on to this site, or any site, really. They sell horses all doped up. They mask the problems and broker them. They fatten them up for slaughter. They don't love and respect the animal.
Personally, I would think the racing industry would be the biggest culprit, but who is going to fight the landlord. |
Susan Elliott (Susan1)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 11:31 pm: | |
Please don't discount saving even one horse from slaughter. If we could all save just one, the world would be a better place. I can't save them all. No one can singlehandedly. But we can put anti-slaughter clauses in our sales contracts, we can ask for first right of refusal on horses that we sell, and we can go and pull horses out of feedlots, pick them up at auctions where the slaughter buyers go, or straight from owners who either don't know any better, or can't find a good home for their horses. If we can take responsibility to give our horses good medical care, good foot care, and lots of love and groundwork, we can help save them from slaughter too. We have to give however we can, even if it's not personally saving 8 horses a year, anything can and will help. |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 7:32 am: | |
I realize that in reality it is foolish to assume that I will definitely be able to follow every footstep of every youngster I sell. However, although I know that horses of every price range can eventually end up "down the pike", you have less of a chance of this happening if you breed knowledgeably and responsibly for QUALITY. In other words - with your HEAD and not just your HEART.
I am not breeding for the general market. I put a lot of time into selecting my mares, and breed them to high-quality stallions who have serious followers in the industry. This enables me to place a high price on them, and while I definitely know that there are rich rotten apples as well as poor ones, someone who is shelling out $12,000 or more for a horse is certainly going to think twice before "disposing" of it - particularly if I have offered more pleasant options.
I seriously believe that the breeders who are making the major contribution to the slaughter chain fall into one of two groups:
A) The well-intentioned owner who either blindly believes that his/her mare is the most fabulous creature on earth and MUST reproduce herself - OR - those few idiots out there (and they exist, believe me!) who want, either for themselves or their children, to simply witness first-hand the "miracle of birth".
B) The "get rich quick" types (and I unfortunately know one personally) who run out, buy a bunch of inexpensive mares, breed them to the cheapest stallions they can find, and then try to sell the offspring to the highest bidder - usually around $1,000.
Offspring from the above, while they may certainly grow up to be sweet companions, have the greatest chance of ending up badly.
Bonnie |
Heidi Wealleans (Pones)
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 8:08 am: | |
Having bred and rescued horses, I can appreciate both points of view - and either option is not an easy one!
Being small time and not very rich, I spent a lot of time looking at stallions for my mare. I believe I chose the best I could. With all the will in the world, things can and will, go wrong. The foal was born early, and the mare rejected him. This cost a lot of time and effort, but we managed to get a foster mare, and the foal did well.
I kept him until he was a yearling, and turned down offers for him that I considered to be from people of questionable motive. I eventually sold to someone who I believed had his best interests at heart - with a buy-back clause in the contract.
Last year I bought him back, as a gelded three year old, at current market value (more than I sold him for). This also incurred transportation costs - more expense. Because the interim owner had not kept his vaccinations up to date, I had to restart the courses....
I noticed swelling in his scrotal area, and the vet diagnosed complications from the gelding operation, which had been carried out two months before. After a major (full anaesthetic) operation I spent yet more money... and ended up paying the equivalent of twice as much for him as he was currently worth... all for the love of the horse.
I still have the horse - he is currently with an excellent loan home whilst I finish my PhD. I have managed to find a superb home (for life) for my mare as well, so I am lucky.
As for the rescued horses, that's another story... but if I ever thought that anything of mine wasn't going on to somewhere better, I'd never sleep at night!
Guess what I'm trying to say is, that if you commit yourself to breeding, then you have to believe in what you produce - if you aren't prepared to keep it yourself, then question your intentions...... |
barbara (Oscarvv)
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 8:53 am: | |
I have enjoyed this forum and it is obvious that everyone's heart is in the right place. Here are my thoughts, hope they aren't too scattered.
I have rescued a foal and have 2 off the trackers and a very expensive show mare. My 2 quality mares will be foaling next year.
ANY horse can end up at the slaughter horse. The by-products go into a can, humans eat the *good part*. Once you let go/sell a horse it's destiny is out of your hands, no matter how much you try and protect them. I will do the whole contract thing also and screen the buyer if I ever sell. Even the best and most expensive horse can end up being slaughtered. What happens to the fancy show horse that gets permanently injured in the paddock at 6 years of age? Especially, if it is a gelding?
I found a website that the for sale board is filled with young/unbroke or pregnant horses and the breeder board is filled with not the best quality stallions. It is disheartnening. I post there regulary to remind people what can become of these horses and add a skeletal rescue horse picture.
My horses weren't in the Olympics (their father's were though )or didn't win the Kentucky Derby but they are that rare diamond to me. I think if you breed looking for it and don't get the one in a million do you keep breeding year after year? It might be better to play lotto.
A friend of mine, who is a race horse groom and is by no means wealthy, had been taking care of a hard to handle TB for 3 years. This horse won almost $400,000 on the track and had obviously been *man* handled whilst traveling the country. Anyhow, his owners stopped paying the board bills, he was kicked to the curb. My friend adopted him. What I was thinking, these horses earn us humans all sorts of money. I say a percentage of there winnings should go into their retirement fund.
Have you guys heard of the Exceller Fund? Very interesting/sad story.
Crossed Sabers is also a good organization which gives people write offs for donating a horse.
~Barbara |
Pamela Towne (Fototrop)
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 9:28 am: | |
I am gratified to know that you all have read and considered my thoughts. I am not in any way suggesting that no one should breed, why, we wouldn't have any horses then. But I know someone who is an absolute beginner, with two young children who are also beginners who is breeding her mare with the plan of selling the baby to buy her husband a 4-wheeler. This mare is not particularly special and the stallion is a backyard paint being offered to anyone and everyone with a mare in heat and $500. I did share my thoughts with her, but she can't be dissuaded. She just has to do it, damn the consequences. (She is also determined to let her cat have kittens so that her children can witness "the miracle of birth". Her vet and I have both told her how we feel about that, too. I have not suggested that she let her children witness the horror of death.)
I am only wishing and hoping that I could open the eyes of those who are well intentioned but maybe not so knowledgeable. Thank you again for sharing. |
lynne ashforth (Lynnea)
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 6:52 pm: | |
That is my wish also, just to become aware and knowledgeable is enlightening and then the choices can be made with an intelligent insight. Perhaps, part of the problem is some people don't really care and will never be sensitive to the lives of animals. I may never understand what makes the difference in the people who will go to the ends of the earth, and sacrifice their own comfort for their animals, and those who can let them starve before their eyes and feel no pain.I wanted to share an article in one of my horse magazines that says the Hoof and Mouth disease in Europe has caused an increase for horsemeat now. people are against eating beef and lamb. And so horses and chickens seem to be it.. I hope this is not accurate, but if anyone knows any more facts, please post it.. This certainly adds fuel to the fire of our breeding discussions!!! |
josephine milano (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 9:27 pm: | |
Let me vent>.... There is a lady at our barn. She must be on horse number 5 in 3 years. Each time she buys the jewel and has high hopes. She, 6 months down the road, has ruined this horse and every other. I don't know how or why but it always happens and she then sells it. One such horse was sold but, stayed at the barn. The new owner (and 13year old child) is the epitome of ignorant and is now physically ruining this horse. I see him foundering in the future or colic, etc. I don't know what to do. I even offered to buy this guy.(who i can't really afford) but the lady won't budge on this ridiculous $2500 price tag for a horse who at this point is not worth it.
What's worse the original owner couldn't care less, she got her money and it's not her problem anymore. Yet, she stalls in the next row. She sees the poor thing everyday. And walks right on by. WHAT KIND OF PERSON ARE YOU, i want to scream this to her. I am not respectful to these two any longer. I can't imagine how THEY sleep at night. I, sometimes, after doing my full day of work, go late after hours pick his feet and groom the caked manure on him. What a mess. What a shame. This poor horse never asked for this. All he wants is clean water, clean shavings, etc.
If I could, I would hog-tie both of them. throw them into a 4x4 stall. Where I would cover them in manure, made to stand in a foot of urine, with balls of mud on the bottom of their feet, and stand in the stall with no fresh water for at least a month. Oh and feed them crappy hay, a smattering of pellets, no lights and no fan. AND SEE how they like it.
Indirectly, this group is a big reason many horses go to slaughter.they are the #3 group of people to be added to the list mentioned above.
Ok, I'm done. I just came back from the barn and this post just got the brunt of my anger. Hope you don't mind too much. |
Maureen Mc Aree (Maureen)
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 9:44 pm: | |
Wow, Josephine, you really did vent. But they are also my sentiments. I always wonder how, behind closed doors, these people treat their human companions?
I get incensed when I hear ignorant (or just plain stupid) people rant about how unimportant animal rights are. Besides the point that animals are our responsiblity, studies have proven that children that are cruel to animals often grow to be cruel adults. Very cruel.
Think I had better go groom my horses! |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 9:47 pm: | |
Please - vent away! That is absolutely awful & you will certainly "get your reward in heaven" as they say for your kindness towards this poor animal.
Even if you are at a self-care/co-op barn, isn't there any management there that can intervene on this horse's behalf - at least carewise if not ownershipwise? I boarded at a barn at one time that - while it was self-care - all boarders had to adhere to strict rules as far as horse maintenance and stall cleanliness, etc., etc., or they were asked to leave.
I agree with you - the callous and/or ignorant sector that just considers the horse little more than a disposable commodity should be added to the list! |
josephine milano (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2001 - 9:58 am: | |
Ykes, sorry. I just read my post. I am usually more behaved. The situation at the barn is precarious at best. Since it is part of a townhome development it is "owned" by all the homeowners. It is run by the board of directors. 1 out of 10 are horseowners. Only 10 out of 90 townhomes have horseowners utilizing the barn, the rest are just boarders. I moved here thinking this was the solution for me at the time. This is one of the many disheartening reasons why I wouldn't recommend this kind of living arrangement.
The red tape it takes to kick someone out is ridiculous. If this was my barn I would have kicked them both out long ago. But the care they give isn't considered cruel enough, its more on the borderline, to some.
Plus I would be doing battle on a daily basis.Which in the beginning, I did. Believe me. I once took off a contraption on a horse that was hurting him and causing open sores, etc. Some kind of training thing. The lady (if I can call her that) left it on for over 12 hours. Late that night i took it off the guy and threw it into the canal. I took pictures of the abuse, the sores and abscesses with the thing on and off the horse. The way his head was contorted, etc. I never confronted the woman and I'm not sure she knows it was me. But I let a rumor start that photos had been taken and sent to the ASPCA and the next time it happens the horse would be removed. It never happened again. So, that was good. But, sometimes this is all I can do. I don't have any authority, sometimes influence but thats it.
Barn help has no influence. They try but to no avail, to really get something done you must first go to the board which only convenes once a month.
Sorry to digress so much. The point was that horses are slaughtered mainly for two reasons. First, because the market for that horse is not good. Because of training, the horses can't be placed into good homes. I can't see how a well mannered, well trained horse goes to slaughter. On the other side is that the horse is lame, or chronically ill or is a threat and some don't feel that the horse is worth the lifetime responsibility to upkeep. So off they go.
So, of the three types of people we have and the two types of horses, mix any of them together and you end up with horses that are useless and therefore get slaughtered.
I Hope there is a type of buddhist caste system and when these horse owners return to this world, its as a tick to be squashed. |
lynne ashforth (Lynnea)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2001 - 1:00 pm: | |
Good job of venting..Jojo..There is nothing like seeing first hand the outright cruelty people are capable of. i received this quote from Redwings Horse Sanctuary that you might like to read.."Whenever an animal is forced into the service of men, every one of us must be concerned for any suffering it bears on that account. No one of us may permit any preventable pain to be inflicted, even though the responsibility for that pain is not ours. No one may appease his conscience by thinking that he would be interfering in something that does not concern him. No one may shut his eyes and think the pain, which is therefore not visible to him, is nonexistent" Dr. Albert Schweitzer.... |
josephine milano (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2001 - 4:16 pm: | |
Do you have a 4th grader version of this quote so I could post at the barn? I don't think they would get it. But, its so true, too bad people don't live by it. I can only try. |
Michelle Cleveland (Mac1)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jan 2, 2002 - 6:08 pm: | |
I have been in the horse business for 23 years and here in Texas horses are a "macho" thing especially in Quarter horse circles. People(men most of the time) actually buy colts and will not geld them because of personal feelings of castration they project to the colt. Then they turn them out in herds of all sexes and let nature take its course. Hundreds if not thousands of low quality, neglected horses are produced this way and flounder in poor conditions until the authorities seize them. I grew up on a small thoroughbred breeding farm and the horses found not to be quality enough for racing came back to me for hunter/jumper training and showing. I agree that racing needs to be much more responsible with the get not suitable to run but I have seen the Quarter horse and Arabian industries produce too many foals by the thousands every year as well.
As an adult I buy one horse at a time either off the track or from small-time brokers who might take them to the killers if no one else wants them. I put about a year of training and showing in them and sell them for profit. The last horse was a 17h thoroughbred gelding with splints on both front legs, a terrible wire cut scar that had been blistered for months (supposedly to heal it) and he roared. He did not sound much like a successful hunter candidate but he moved very well and I had "tie-back" surgery performed for the roaring. I sold him to a grand prix barn in the Dallas area and six years later he wins everything he enters at AHSA "A" rated shows. My newest horse is an 18 month old unregistered TB filly who was rescued by a sheriffs' department in Louisiana from a small breeder who had gone bankrupt and had neglected his herd of mares and foals. In spite of having been half starved, wormy, not halter broken, never had her hooves trimmed, etc., etc. she is wonderful. She was one of those horses probably headed to slaughter but now headed for the show ring. However if she is hurt or lamed enough to keep her from showing, most in any horse business would breed her or take her to auction. Very few can afford a horse as strictly a pet and that is just being realistic.
There is no easy solution for the slaughter problem but all of us who love and respect God's most beautiful creation can support any of the multitude of Equine rescue organizations. We can support them with monetary contributions if we cannot rescue any animals ourselves. We can support the many farms that specialize in rehabilitating and retraining ex-race horses to be pleasure/trail horses, hunters, jumpers, pleasure driving, dressage, etc. As breeders we can geld our colts before we sell them. As for the uneducated, irresponsible horse owner/breeder, I do not know what to do other than to pray and hope for the best. |
estrella99
Member
Username: estrella
Post Number: 12
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 6, 2007 - 5:20 pm: | |
Thank you Dr. O for your article and other members for your follow up post. I had a post entitled 27 year old mare in big trouble. I lost her. It was indeed a heartbreak. So my bestest pal shipped her champion mare here to help fill the void. She said I could breed her and keep the foal. (good friend huh!). So We have picked the stallion, a very nice stallion. The mare is a proven broodmare. She is actually related to the mare I lost. So I though I should begin reading. Found Dr. 0's article. I have raised a foal before, actually the mare I lost. It was fun. But then again it was 27 years ago. Then I started thinking, what if I don't get the foal I hoped for? What if I had to sell it? I couldn't really guarantee a home for life with someone else.
Then I realized the mare I had was the way she was because of the circumstances and events during that time. That's what made us who we were together. Kinda of separating the emotion from it. Faced with the reality. So for me I think producing a foal with expectations may not be the best thing for us.
Although cloning is an option! I heard it's about $10,000.00 for a cat. I also heard cloned animals don't live very long. But then again I could have been the first to post a question about a cloned horse!
So wish me luck in finding not a replacement, but a horse that is just as special. Thank you again. Oh yea and my friends mare...She is sure an easy keeper...a little pudgy since her visit here..good thing it's blanket season! Gotta fix that, who knew? I was hoping it was just long hair. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 19503
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 7, 2007 - 7:36 am: | |
Congratulations estrella in taking a very emotional feeling and reasoning out a very logical response that I think will in the long run will make you happier. There are thousands of potential trusty friends out there that would love to come live with you.
DrO |
Linda Lashley
Member
Username: lhenning
Post Number: 308
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 7, 2007 - 12:40 pm: | |
Sorry to hear about your mare. My condolences to you. 27 years is a very long time to get to know someone and to spend loving them. Even if you had a foal exactly like your mare, it would take that long to get to the place you were with her. You just can't replace lost loved ones. Enjoy your memories of her and give yourself time to grieve.
Take things slow and you will find your answer. Many members here have been down the same road as you. Many find new horses and now have wonderful stories to tell about their new friends. It is not the end of pain you seek, but a new beginning with someone completely different. Whether that is with a new foal or a grown horse depends on how much training time you want to devote to the project. Only you can answer that question.
Good luck,
Linda |
jos
Member
Username: paardex
Post Number: 417
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 7, 2007 - 1:15 pm: | |
Hi Estrella,I think you make a wise decision. Breeding a horse is also a thing you must do with your whole heart[and as much knowledge and responsability as you can find]. People like you are the owners people like me are looking for[and my mares because believe me there are some that love to be a mommy from time to time]
Very wise to look not for the same of more because imo [even with cloning] you wouldn't do justice to your new companion if he just has to replace another.
Apart from that another real friend might give you more then just a replacement.
Good luck
Jos |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: imogen
Post Number: 1026
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2007 - 3:25 am: | |
Also, Estrella, you mentioned yourself the 27 years age difference between when you raised the previous foal and now. Like kids, you really need to be physically able for looking after young horses. Good decision.
Imogen |
jos
Member
Username: paardex
Post Number: 419
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2007 - 9:24 am: | |
Imogen don't put me in a 'prenatal depression' does age really matter?
Thought that was for the horses
Jos |
Elizabeth Kaufman
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 155
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2007 - 9:42 am: | |
Well done Estrella,
I'll join the others saying that I admire your thought process. Any decision that came out of that analysis would definitely have my respect. I wish I could bottle your perspective and pass it around the neighborhood!
- Elizabeth |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: imogen
Post Number: 1028
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 9, 2007 - 9:33 am: | |
Jos, I actually think that looking after young horses well so that they turn into reasonably trained animals that will have a nice life/good owners if you are not around to look after them, takes a lot of physical energy and determination... but maybe it's just me that should be depressed! Maybe it just says I am finding it harder work than I would have years ago...
All the best
Imogen |
jos
Member
Username: paardex
Post Number: 421
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 10, 2007 - 4:20 am: | |
I know you are right Imogen, I was just kidding.
I sent my gelding away to being trained wednesday[much to my dismay because I miss him] but these big horses are getting to much for me to ride in the beginning. Can't take the risk who will clean and feed if I can't do it?
But with adaption [like letting others do the parts I can't do alone anymore] I manage because I really LOVE having young horses growing up around me.
Another option I found was: Akacja the Arab she is so much easier to handle then my big showjumpers [1.47m against1.70m] even though my own horses are easy to handle the little one makes life easier on me.
Sorry Estrelle I seem to have taken over your post, but I think this discussion underlines that somewhere there will be an exceptionel new buddy for you, and there are breeders who do their very best to do it responsably and just because they love it just as much as you have loved having your horse.
Jos |
estrella99
Member
Username: estrella
Post Number: 13
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 10, 2007 - 11:42 am: | |
Good Morning!
Thank you for replying to my post, Yea I agree 27 years have passed since I raised a foal..but I got her when I was 10. (tee hee), OK a tad older. But the one thing that has changed in the 27 years, is now thank goodness, it's easier to afford a good trainer. Then another reality moment. My trainer I had for my hunter has retired, my horse shoer, my vet is holding on by a string. My trainer is still my good friend, well more like family. I tried to convince her to do it one more time for me. But she no longer has any cartilage in her knees. She can't even step up a curb. I'm thinking Bute! I am still deciding on a breed. Estrella thought she was a hunter, she was brought up in a hunter barn, although she was an Arab she never knew it. Her build was different also. So I checked into her lines, long gone. No one believed she was full Arab. Now for my Hunter, a TB, he is 17 now, I retired him from the shows about 6 years ago. He was always on the road. We were offered big bucks for him, I turned it down. I knew I could never afford to buy another like him. I figured he had a racing career, even won once, then a hunter career. That was enough. He loves the ring work, loves to jump and also loves the trails. He's a trail blazer, he's quiet and kind. He has never refused a jump. When he goes on the trail, if he see's something that makes him a little uncomfortable, he's very sensible. Just stops and looks. He is a Private Account son, and I got him from my friend. She retired him from racing because she he didn't like it. My other friend said there is no way I will ever find another like him, not in a TB. That I was very lucky. Naw, it was something about him I loved from the moment I met him. She said out of all animals she has ever met, that he should be the one that is cloned. I have a chest full of silver and ribbons he has won over the years. He is perfectly sound. Another friend who's a QH trainer, used to take him out when he was boarded at her place while we were moving. She said she has never met a TB like him. She just loves him also. Oh yea and he is very pretty...OK so maybe very lucky. So what say you? Are there other TB's like him out there? I got my hubby a QH. I purchased him when I retired Estrella. It was pretty hard to convince him Estrella needed to be retired. Only until he heard the vet say it did he believe it. My husband just loves him. I did good on that one, a perfect match and best buddies! I have done alot of reading about the different WB's but it's hard to tell. You know looking back, at the training barn, she had 98% TB's. They were all pretty quiet. So I don't know if it was her ability or the horses. I know I mention cloning, but I am only kidding, too freaky for me. Although maybe I can clone the trainer, vet, shoer and horse! |
estrella99
Member
Username: estrella
Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 10, 2007 - 11:52 am: | |
Oh yea and just to have to add this little article about him. Gives me goose bumps. The header is Today's "Ready to Fire" horses. "Is ready to run big for O'Hara off a very strong gate work with the likes of Sir Hutch. Couldn't beat that fast son-of-a-gun but held his own and is very liable to be tough to beat on the drop" "He caught our clocker's eye the other day working with the classy Sir Hutch." I gotta go out and hug him now. OK perhaps a tad off topic...enough of the "I love my horse" |
Suzanne Reed
Member
Username: sureed
Post Number: 74
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Nov 11, 2007 - 10:44 pm: | |
After so much discourse, I weigh in here cautiously to say, when I was younger (I am turning 60 in Feb 08), I rode TBs. When I went back to riding four years ago after 20 years off, I naturally bought some OTT TBs because that is what I used to train and ride. But they are so different now. As Warmbloods have increasingly taken over in equestrian competition, the TBs are bred only to race without regard to temperament or long term soundness. Once I became aware (through direct experience with some OTT TBs including a little time in the OR) I transitioned to rescuing OTT TBs but riding and breeding Warmbloods. My goal is for American competitors to ride American bred horses in International competition. At the same time, because of my devotion to TBs, I keep them heavily represented in my lines. One of my broodmares is an OTT TB that I presented for Oldenburg approval and she was accepted. She throws exceptional foals with great dispositions. I bred my Hanoverian mare to the TB Grand Prix jumper Coconut Grove (South American bred but now standing in the US). He is the only TB in American approved for Hanoverian breeding. The colt from that breeding is exquisite and a competitive jumper prospect.
Meanwhile, because of my rescue efforts, a very successful trainer here in CA gave me a TB stud, imported from England, who bowed a tendon when he was 5 after winning over $130,000 on the track. I am now planning to stand him as a TB sire to TBs and Paints, QH and Appy race horses. I am also presenting him for approval to the American Warmblood Registry so he can stand as a sporthorse sire. Being English bred, where they still care about temperament, I believe he can contribute a lot to sporthorse and racehorse breeding in America.
All of this is to say, we need to be very careful about the bloodlines we are bringing forward. It is not every horse's destiny to procreate. We must breed the best to the best, or we will be producing even more horses that are destined for slaughter. The horse we breed must have desirable characteristics that are important to carry on. I am devoted to TBs and will always incorporate them in my lines for refinement of the heavier Warmblood lines and for the athleticism they contribute. But not all bloodlines are suitable to be carried forward. As breeders, we need to know which are suitable and which are not.
Increasingly, the majority of amateur riders in the horse market are older women (like me). We need to breed horses that are marketable and meet market demand as well as withstand the demands of their disciplines over the long haul.
Suzanne |
jos
Member
Username: paardex
Post Number: 426
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 12, 2007 - 4:18 am: | |
Couldn't agree more Suzanne,though I saw the change[being 51] the other way around. The warmbloods changing direction TB.
Just one addition I would like to make, let's put as much energy in educating riders as we do in educating our young horses. In Holland and in France it is [imo] necessary!
Jos |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: imogen
Post Number: 1030
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 12, 2007 - 7:26 am: | |
[off topic]
I am begininng to think there is a business here for for someone in adapting to the ageing riding population... drop-down stirrups, handling aids for bales, breeding quiet horses, boots you can get on over arthritic ankles, etc etc.
Anyone else for "Geriquestrians"?
Imogen |
Ann
Member
Username: dres
Post Number: 1566
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 12, 2007 - 9:57 am: | |
| |
