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Message |
    
Eleanor Leo (Skye)
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 23, 2002 - 7:33 pm: |   |
Any suggestions on training a 10-week-old foal to stand well while receiving vet treatment on a leg or foot or for the farrier doing a trim?
I've seen the physical punishment
(kicking the foal in the belly, flailing attacks with the hands over the foal's body).
There must be a gentler way to help the foal learn he must behave and be safe before he hurts someone.
Ellie |
Holly Edwards (Hwood)
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 23, 2002 - 7:48 pm: | |
Hi, Eleanor,
I've never had a foal, but have worked with many different types of horses and have had the pleasure of rehabilitating several. The method I would use to teach any horse to stand would be what I have learned from John Lyons. Make sure the horse knows the cue for "move" and make sure you get movement, any movement, from something on the horse every time you use the cue. If the horse refuses to stand, then use the move cue and your body language and get him working, working, working (easily done on a lead line for a young or small horse) and when you see the horse's expression changing as if he is asking, "Can I stop now?" then stop the cue and let him stand. Praise him and try to pick his feet or worm him or whatever, but if he starts to move, give him the move cue and keep him moving until you can see him asking for a halt. Stop the move cue and let him stand and praise him and start trying to do whatever you need to do to him while he stands. This method works great for teaching a horse to stand while being mounted, also. The main thing is to teach the move cue and make sure you get something to move on the horse's body, every time you ask. If you want more movement than just a flick of an ear or the turn of his head to focus on you, then continue the move cue and your body language to tell him to move out.
It is really important to teach the horse BEFORE the vet comes. :-)
Holly |
barbara (Oscarvv)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 24, 2002 - 6:48 am: | |
"I've seen the physical punishment
(kicking the foal in the belly, flailing attacks with the hands over the foal's body)."
Yowser!!! I can't imagine anyone "teaching" a foal to stand by kicking them in the belly! Ellie, you are certainly right that this is not the way to go.
The foal should be halter broke and used to being touched all over it's body/legs. I like using a "butt" rope to help teach them not to go backwards and to go forward if you ask. The "butt" rope will also help not to strain the little one's neck if he does try to go back.
You should practise picking up the feet well before the vet/farrier arrives. It is best to do this with two people.
I halter my babies and then with a long lead have it go around the butt, cross over at the top of the back and then around the chest. This creates a figure eight around the horse and can prevent strain on the neck. If your foal has not been handled much it will need to get used to the rope as well. Go slow and be patient. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 24, 2002 - 7:01 am: | |
Hello Eleanor,
Your response should depend on the foals actions. Picking up the feet should be done before the farrier gets there and before picking up the feet learning to stand still, a basic part of halter training, precedes picking up the feet. For information of specific techniques see, Training Horses: Training the Mind of Your Horse: Halter Training and Tieing Horses.
DrO |
Nancy Reynolds Kiester (Albionsh)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 24, 2002 - 10:00 am: | |
Holly, I would not agree with this "move out" method for the very young foal. Barbara's method is more natural to the mind of a foal. It would only frighten and possibly injure a foal to lunge it at such a young age. The way to accustom a foal to anything is to do it as Barbara suggests, quietly, slowly and often. First gain the trust of the baby, by sitting in his or her pen while mom eats and baby nurses, perhaps for an extended time. Foals are naturally curious, and when they no longer fear your strangeness and when they see mom accepting treats from your hand, they will come over to investigate.
I like to milk the mare a little, just enough to get my hand wet. Baby will come a'sniffin, and soon will smell or lick my hand when it senses the milk. Then I gently touch the muzzle, then the cheek, on up to scratching the neck. It all takes time and multiple sessions, but being with these little ones is such a joy that it isn't time wasted. Once they are accustomed to the human touch, I will scratch them all over with the lead rope, preferably one smelling like mom. It naturally gets looped and caught, on neck and legs and face. All this happens so naturally, accompanied by those wonderful scratching fingers, that baby is soon gentled.
There will be those initial moments of panic when the foal finds itself trapped by the rope and unable to leave at will, but then the scratching hands that never hurt will sooth and they will accept this next step in their training.
This method may not work for every foal, but it is a good starting point and sets them up well for a life of confident training. |
Eleanor Leo (Skye)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 24, 2002 - 10:09 am: | |
Ah, I was not clear: the foal is halter broke and leads well. The problem is he sometimes (not always) will kick out the leg being examined. When he does it 3 or 4 times, the vet or barn manager tends to get rough.
He has been imprinted and is used to having all parts of his body touched.Other than this occasional kicking out, he is well-behaved.
Thanks to all who have replied! |
Nancy Reynolds Kiester (Albionsh)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 24, 2002 - 10:24 am: | |
At 10 weeks it should still be possible to overpower him physically without being brutal. My farrier works with them up against a wall to prevent their movement in that direction. He then flexes the foot, next setting it down so just the toe brushes the ground and all weight is on the other three legs. He'll extend the leg out again, returning to the flex and tip if the colt kicks out. I've never seen one of mine need more than four repeats before he or she submits and allows the trimming. They get his foot training every six weeks or so whenever mom gets hers, and it soon is very well accepted.
There is no reason your barn manager, vet, or farrier should EVER manhandle your horse. There are times a horse needs to be mastered, but it should never be in anger or fear. Years of bad experience does not make such people right in their methods, just wrong for a long time. |
Nancy Reynolds Kiester (Albionsh)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 24, 2002 - 10:33 am: | |
Sorry, I forgot an important element. He stands at the colt's side, catching the "offending" foot in a loop of rope. It is with this rope that he pulls the leg up. I recall a gentle swinging of the foot as he lowers it to brush the ground until it rests just on the tip. I think that he is training the baby to put his weight on three feet. He then does not worry so much about the other foot being up and worked on. |
Christine C. Mills (Chrism)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 24, 2002 - 1:02 pm: | |
10 weeks is awfully young to expect much.
With the young ones, I would think it takes a person or two to help the foal to stand still - taking advantage of having him against a wall and his foward/backward movement restricted.
Most youngsters this age have no attention span, frigten easily and forget much. They also feel very unbalanced because they grow so fast.
I would take much softer and more patient approach if at all possible.
Fitting a long cotton lead rope in a figure 8 around the colt's body often helps them feel both contained and balanced, I'd start with that.
I, personally, wouldn't use any of the corrections described above, or the rope around the leg. I'd do the figure 8 around the foal, and I'd make sure I was not over stressing the foal's leg by pulling it too high or too far out - they are little guys - you need to bend over pretty far to be fair. |
Christine C. Mills (Chrism)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 24, 2002 - 1:30 pm: | |
Some after thoughts -
Where is the foal's mom? Until it is weaned, there can be a big panic exhibited by mom or the foal if access is restricted. I'd make sure this wasn't contributing to your problem.
Also, I'd handle the foal every day, including picking feet and tapping on the hoof with a hoof pick. Make it a routine that isn't scarey by doing it regularly and patiently. You may just get a hoof up for a fraction of a second - try to be the one who gives before he tries to take his hoof back ... |
Holly Edwards (Hwood)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 24, 2002 - 4:25 pm: | |
Ooops. I didn't read the original post very well. I was thinking 10 months old, not 10 weeks old.
Holly |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 25, 2002 - 6:16 am: | |
Hello Eleanor,
Do you believe the kick directed at anyone or simply a avoidance/resistance technique?
DrO |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 25, 2002 - 8:26 am: | |
My vet had us put a twitch on our 4-month colt so he could get his vaccinations. (The soft-rope-on-end-of-wooden-handle type - not the metal kind.)
We were gentle about it & it was much safer for everyone concerned than the rodeo we experienced the first time around.
The only time I will EVER strike a youngster is a little muzzle "thwack" with the fingers to counteract nipping. Anything else is just going to result in "trust" issues that will be hard to correct later on. |
Eleanor Leo (Skye)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 25, 2002 - 4:58 pm: | |
Hi, Dr. O. His kick is probably more of a snatching of his foot--an avoidance/resistance technique, as you said.
He is better if you stand him against a wall or fence.
Question: If the handler hits and kicks the colt, won't the colt begin to associate pain and punishment with handling of his feet and legs?
Many thanks |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 26, 2002 - 6:28 am: | |
It depends on how carefully the negative reinforcement is done and how smart/calm this little colt is. If the problem is avoidance (ignorance) and not aggression you will get further faster with sugar than with vinegar. I must say however, I have judged some such behavior as beligerence and used carefully timed carefully measured negative reinforcement with good results.
DrO |
Cece Bulkley
Member
Username: Ceceb
Post Number: 7
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2003 - 10:09 pm: | |
My question is, What age should a foal get his trimming. My 10 week old colt's hoofs are starting to split and crack some. Should I have the farrier file them now?
Thanks!
Cece |
George Taglioli
Member
Username: Tagloili
Post Number: 29
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2003 - 10:43 pm: | |
We normally have the foals hooves trimmed at three months old or sooner providing they have been taught to stand and give their feet for cleaning before the ferrier is brought out. |
Heidi Hocker
Member
Username: Heidih
Post Number: 151
Registered: 9-1999
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2003 - 9:00 am: | |
I had my colt trimmed for the first time at 8 weeks old. I started working on picking up his feet very soon after birth. He was a little ornery, but since it wasn't a completly new feeling for him, he settled down quickly. He's now on the same 8 week schedule the other horses are on. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 8779
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2003 - 10:44 am: | |
Hello Cece,
There is no time that fits all situations. The correct answer is they should be trimmed anytime they are overly long or need balancing. Chipping and cracking is a pretty good sign they are too long.
DrO |
Sheri Peters
Member
Username: Sspete
Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2003 - 2:47 pm: | |
I have a 5 yr.old mare and a 3 yr old app that I worked with every day, tapping and lifting their feet & even trimming when I can, every day but have slacked off the last year or so (due to personal problems) They both have seemed to have forgotten their rolls in the process. do I have to start back at square one? they don't stand well for their feet being worked on and there is only one of me to do that. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 8787
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2003 - 6:29 pm: | |
Hello Sheri,
I am afraid so.
|
