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sue wynn (Renoryde)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 4:34 pm: |   |
I recently purchased a 2 yr. old gelding, not knowing the conditions he was brought up in, got him to my barn and found out he was a "wood chewer-cribber." I fell in love w/him despite this annoying habit, began to research the cribbing and found that there are more cures, more misinformation on this than there are cures for the hiccups! I am trying to find out now if there have been any studies on "rewards" for non-cribbing time? I will not go the "torture route" with some of the devices out there. Any help out there ? Advice? Suggestions? thanks |
mindy franklin (Mindy)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 10:22 pm: | |
My friend just bought an 18 yr old gelding that cribs. His previous owners used a cribbing collar on him. He now has ugly marks were the hair was rubbed off from the collar and it looks like it will stay that way. She decided to quit using the collar and has him turned out without access to boards to crib on. He has a band of trees for shelter. He used to always try to crib when she tied him up for grooming, etc. She has been telling him no with a little smack every time he does it and she seems to really be making progress. Obviously she can't watch him every second and he could still crib on the trees. When she first got him she would watch for it while he was in the pasture and catch him by surprise. He dosen't do it nearly as much now. Another friend used an unorthidox method on her horse. She would watch out the window and shoot her gelding in the butt with a BB gun when he would crib on the trees. I know thats pretty sick but now all she has to do is tap on the window and he takes off bucking. I think he is playing games with her. You could give treats for good behavior in situations were he would normally crib. Like when tied with a tasty hitching post in front of him. |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 7:00 am: | |
While I won't even comment on the BB gun method, except to say AAAAAACK!!! - keep in mind that cribbing is to horses what cigarette smoking is to a lot of people: a nearly uncontrollable habit.
Although I realize that a lot of the collar-control methods look rather medieval, it is the way that you use and maintain them that determines their kindness. An equine veterinarian friend of mine has a lovely Thoroughbred she rescued who cribbed severely. In fact, within a week the barn looked like it had been attacked by beavers. She used a "Miracle Collar" on him (any equine supplier can get one for you) nearly continously, and he stopped. HOWEVER - and this is important - she removed it frequently for cleaning (it's leather) and made sure he was very well-groomed - no dirt or sweat - wherever the collar touched him. He seems very happy, doesn't seem to notice the collar at all, and even lowers his head for her to put it on. I am sure if he considered it an instrument of torture, he wouldn't be so pleasant about it.
If the collar you use is always stiff from lack of cleaning and/or caked with mud and sweat, of course, like any other piece of tack - your horse will be miserable and probably get sores and lose hair. Also, there are a lot of people out there who apply these collars so tightly the poor animal can barely breathe, let along crib. It's not necessary to make his eyes & tongue bug out to effectively stop cribbing! Have someone knowledgeable like your vet show you the optimum snugness for your horse so you know for sure.
Hope this gives you a little food for thought, and good luck. Cribbing can cause unthriftyness in many ways, and is really considered an "unsoundness" in many circles - not to mention the property destruction - so you should decide on some type of control method asap. (I'd forget about the BB idea though!)
Bonnie |
lynne ashforth (Lynnea)
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 5:00 pm: | |
I have a horse that began cribbing while in training...spent too much time in a stall. It is usually started by boredome, but I have read there can be a genetic tie in, also. The act of cribbing , evidently release endorphins and then it becomes addictive, habitual..The miracle collar is what I use on Nick and he doesn't even know its there.. you do have to make sure the vet fits it correctly, and I put fuzzies around the leather to make it more comfortable..Any of those other options, are not for me...The thought of the BB idea is just not a fair or nice thing to do. Without the collar my horse would take in air and some horses do get mild colics from that...There is controversy on that issue, but I have witnessed the minor colic so I do what i believe is best. Hope all of this helps... |
Linda Antipala (Alika)
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 8:56 pm: | |
I understand there is a difference between cribbing and wood chewing. If I'm correct, cribbing is grabbing on to something with the teeth and sucking in air, with a narcotic effect. The object could be a pipe, whatever, not necessarily wood. All our horses chew wood occasionally. My husband's QH gelding chomps impatiently on the shed while I'm making up their dinner dishes. My arab mare and friend's arab gelding chomp on the picnic bench, the arena rail (wood). They have pasture grazing 24/7 so it's not as if they lack something to gnaw on. If we're around when they start chomping, a loud "stop it" yell will work, but who knows what the little woodpeckers are doing when alone. No physical problems so far, but I worry about splinters in the mouth or wood in their guts. Coating the shed, the miles of top rail and all the benches with an anti-cribbing solution would not be practical. I rubbed the QH's favorite dinner chew spot with Irish Spring soap and that helped. Any other ideas? |
sue wynn (Renoryde)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2001 - 12:50 am: | |
For those of you that tried painting solutions on surfaces--what have you found that does work, lasts the longest, and most important- is safe to use? I am thinking that I will try that route first before the collar. Also, from articles I've read, the connection with colic seems to be as unproven as the theory that others horses will pick up the habit just from watching another horse doing it. I know there are horses that colic that are cribbers, but is there proof that the cribbers colic at a higher rate than other non cribbing horses? I mean "studies?" thanks for the advise! keep the suggestions coming! sue |
Tracy Walborn (Cameo)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2001 - 1:32 am: | |
Hi Sue,
My horse is in the cribbing club too!! I have tried regular cribbing collars and don't like them. I think they dig into the side of their neck to much. I have also tried the miracle collar and it didn't work for us. There is a piece of the collar that goes across the brow and it took her about one hour to figure out that if she scrapes her head against something that she can get it behind her ears and it takes the pressure off so then of course it doesnt work. I havent tried the soap but I have tried hot sauce....she didnt care!!! It deterred her a little but she would go back and check it every once in awhile and then when it was soaked into the wood enough she would start sucking away! She also has access to her pasture 24/7 and it dosent seem to make a difference. I worry about the colic also. Is it something that I should really battle? Is it really going to hurt her to just leave her be???? I'm not sure if my story help any or not but good luck!
Tracy |
Julie Markich (Julieann)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2001 - 2:20 am: | |
Some places i have seen use sump oil to discourage wood chewing and cribbing i suppose it tastes bad, also a place i have just moved to has plastic bags tied to all the wooden posts i presume this is also discouraging though i feel it may not be safe as they may chose to nibble on the plastic.
so far i have not had the problem (touch wood):-) and i currently have electric fences so no-one in their right mind would chomp down on a few volts! |
Carrie Reavis (Creavis)
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 25, 2002 - 10:27 am: | |
I have found that using a wire basket attached to a halter or other similar constructed device is an effective tool for preventing a horse from cribbing. You can find it in the Dover Catalog. I'm sure just like the cribbing collars that it does not rid the horse's urge to crib but it does prevent the horse from performing the act of cribbing. I have used it with a horse on stall rest for several months now and it works quite well. It is an unattractive device but it does allow the horse to eat and drink. The basket may also be used to prevent horses from overeating, eating too fast, and prevent damage to blankets and bandages.
Good Luck! |
Holly Z.
Member
Username: Cowgrl
Post Number: 63
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 1, 2004 - 12:02 pm: | |
Recycled motor oil works well painted on the boards. Discourages wood chewing/cribbing in a big way. |
Liliana Velasco Ariza
Member
Username: Liliana
Post Number: 89
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Apr 3, 2004 - 5:15 pm: | |
“Prevention is better that cure” has been drummed into my ears ever since I started studying and reading anything I can about horse!
As far as I know winds king is winds king (cigarette effect) and cribbing is chewing gnawing anything at mouth’s reach
Some horses like humans have become neurotic due to their environment, they are gregarious animals, so being confined into the stable on their own for long periods is very stressing for them.
The answer has always been to keep them entertained perhaps with a ball hanging on a piece of string from the top of the stable door or ceiling, also a turnip tied to a string, an apple bobbing in the water bucket, a dog or a goat in the stable (if it is big enough) give them a stable with a view with people passing by or something to keep them entertained, a saltlick block on the wall, a big horse hage net (with small wholes) so that it takes them longer to finish their hay, the idea is to keep them busy changing their environment, friends as little as possible is also important
Reading “suffering through ignorance” thread or any for that matter it is obvious that we care about our critters, but, I’ve found that understanding horses goes well beyond grooming, tacking up and riding. Learning about their psychology, digestive system, keeping them as close as possible to their natural way in the wild works out so much better in the long run, one of my mares had an eye problem for years due to being fed on a table instead of on the floor as it is their nature is an example that comes to mind nothing to do with wind sucking but one of the problems that can be solved some times
That is my humble advise
Liliana
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Jean Sheiness
Member
Username: Ladera
Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2004 - 4:10 am: | |
The articles wriiten on stable vices are an excellent reference for those who have a horse with one of these vices.
I had a horse who was a windsucker. I should have seen the first warning when the trainer said that the metal bar on his stall was a temporary maintence problem.
I need/want to add my two cents for those who will cross this website.
My horse was put out to pasture hoping he would stop , prevent or lessen the windsucking. He planted his incisors on anything to get his "high". He windsucked on the water feeder, fence posts, and trees.
I used the miracle collar. He stretched the brow band until it snapped. I also fleeced lined the collar because the strap dug into his skin and caused many sores. I also removed the collar daily .
I tried the French cribbing strap which worked the best against preventing the windsucking. He continued eventhough he developed huge sores where the metal laid.
I tried staying up all night policing his stall and pushed him off the gate everytime he would windsuck. By three in the morning I was exhausted.
I placed him in a schooling program which kept him active. I rode him in the morning and a young girl would ride him in the afternoon. He was the happiest with this arrangement . He still would toke at any chance he had during his rest time. You could actually see his eyes soften by his third windsuck.
I was warned that he would promote cribbing /windsucking with his stablemates. None of his stablemates ever tried or exhibited his passion.
I also used the mcnasty antichew spray.I held my breath and manage to catch a whiff of this product. The wind kicked up just as I took a breath. I thought I was going to die. The product warns of the necessity of proper ventilation. I thought holding my breath was sufficient. I was stupid.
He had episodes of gas colic. I was looking at the neurectomy when he developed severe colic. Do I think he coliced because of the chronic windsucking? Yes indeed.
THe cribbing muzzle was not available when my horse was alive. I think the muzzle is a humane approach to deal with cribbing or windsucking.
Good Luck to hose who will deal with this problem.I do feel that my horse was a severe addict. I have seen less severe cases. I tried to prevent a nasty outcome.
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Fiona Farrell
Member
Username: Lala
Post Number: 119
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2004 - 7:41 am: | |
Dear Sue,
Re do they colic more and studies. Check out the information collected by Dr. Christine King, Preventing Colic in Horses. In it on page 52 she says:
"It was long thought that colic in cribbers was caused by overinflation of the stomach with swallowed air. But is has since been proven with radiographic (x-ray) studies that these horses do not swallow air. The air they gulp does not get any further than the first few inches of the esophagus. It is then expelled into the back of the throat, making the grunting or belching noice that is heard when horses crib.
"One reason why colic may be more common in cribbers is that they spend much of their time cribbing rather than grazing or eating hay. Thus, their food intake, when they do stop to eat, is intermittant and their overall roughage intake may be inadequate. And because these horses tend to be light in condition, their ration usually includes grain. As discussed later, colic risk increases as the amount of grain in the diet increases. For the same reasons, horses that compulsively fence-walk, stall walk, or weave could also be at increased risk for colic."
Just as post-foaling mares are at increased risk for surgical colic cases and death by colic, I have been warned by experienced breeders never to buy a cribbing broodmare because of their two stikes against them in terms of increased risk of colic. That said, there are old broodmares out there who crib who successfully, healthily have foals year after year. As with anything equine, generalizations dangerous.
That said, I spent a wonderful two years with an 18-20 year old gelding who was quite a severe cribber -- find the top of a fence post or riding ring post and go for it when one's head was turned -- but he was pastured in electric fence and turned out most of the time -- and plump. so, in a gelding that is otherwise a good eater my unscientific and not based on studies conclusion is that the risk subsides considerably. Dr. King's book is really quite informative on colic, in it she explains causes and collects information on all the studies on colic as of 1999.
Good luck with all with your cribbers!
Fiona |
joj
Member
Username: Jojo15
Post Number: 427
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 5, 2004 - 10:28 pm: | |
I wanted to add my thoughts since i have a "wood-chewer"... My first thought is that "cribbing" and wood chewing are totally two different things. and One does not lead to the other. And i was wondering if your horse has one or the other. Or both. But they don't necessarily go hand in hand.
I have also been told that cribbing (wind sucking) is likened more to a heroine addiction as opposed to smoking, though. There is a high involved when they suck wind.
As a personal aside, though, my mare has been chewing her stall door for years, and nothing short of putting PVC over the wood has stopped it. EXCEPT, now that we have moved she hasn't chewed anything. I forgot what a problem it was. But now she is out at least 12 hours a day.
I also remember hearing from everyone that she is going to start to crib. Didn't happen. 10 years of nawing on the wood and she never started that habit. I even remember a time when a cribber was in the stall next to her and i put up a stink (erroneously) about cribbing being a learned response and how i wanted them to move that horse. That horse was there for 2 years. My horse never started then either.
Cribbing muzzles seems like a try. Even for the wood chewing. But as for the stopping the chewing? i have tried everything. And nothing really worked. She even started to enjoy a tabasco/hotpepper spray that i mixed up thinking that would stop her. LOL... Only thing that worked is the pvc pipe that is cut and mounted over the wood. And hot wires around the paddocks..
Wood chewing is a pain in the butt for the owner, and i don't think its as devastating as cribbing. One is just destructive while the other seems detrimental to their health and wellness.
Good luck.... |
Liliana Velasco Ariza
Member
Username: Liliana
Post Number: 93
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 6, 2004 - 3:59 pm: | |
Cribbing and wind sucking are not the same thing. When a horse wind sucks ( as the name suggests) the horse gets hold of the edge of the stable door or a bar (or some edge) with his teeth and lips, arches its neck and sucks air similar to when we are going under water and take a deep breath; cribbing would be your wood chewer
Bit of useless information stored in the hard disk from when I took my test.
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Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 390
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 6, 2004 - 4:07 pm: | |
Now I'm confused...I thought chewing wood was chewing wood - as artistic as it could be...and cribbing and windsucking are the same?
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Terri Haynie
Member
Username: Terrilyn
Post Number: 132
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 6, 2004 - 4:10 pm: | |
Cribbing is the act of grabbing a surface, flexing the neck, and sucking air. Chewing wood is chewing wood. |
V Crowley-Clough
New Member
Username: Shambles
Post Number: 1
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 5, 2004 - 9:04 am: | |
I am considering buying a 6 year old TB gelding who is a windsucker. He is for my 14 year old son who wishes to train him for eventing (off the race track ca. 1 year ago and relatively green). Am I throwing my money away and, more importantly, will all his anticipated hard work and emotional attachment go to waste. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 11132
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 7, 2004 - 6:22 am: | |
Hello V Crowley-Clough,
We have important information on cribbing in the article associated with this forum. Select Stable Vices: Cribbing, Weaving, and Others from the navigation bar above and read the article. Then if you have any questions after reading it you can post them in your own discussion using the link at the bottom of the list of already posted discussions.
DrO |
Kathy Young
Member
Username: Kchariot
Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 2:03 pm: | |
I have a thoroughbred at the track who is a cribber. I bought her the miracle collar. She has been spending a lot of time trying to get it off. She has learned to pin her ears back and push it over them.
I have been doing a lot of reading about the topic. Do you think it could be related to the amount of grain she is fed? Would adding Equi-Jewel, which has more fat and would reduce the amount of sweet feed she gets help?
She is fed alfalfa and timothy hay. She can have all the hay she wants 24/7. She does eat more with the Miracle collar than the old one she had. She also isn't getting marks on her neck from it.
Help!! I also purchased a stall buddy mirror, but we haven't put it up yet.
Thanks!! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 15601
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 9:30 am: | |
It may help to switch to a higher fat feed if you are careful to cut back on the amount because of the extra calories, but don't get your hopes up to much with a confirmed cribber. What is your horses condition? Did you read the article associated with this forum Kathy?
DrO |
