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Tina Ware
Member
Username: Tinaw40

Post Number: 17
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I just received a new horse one week ago. There are 4 other horses in my barn. The new guy, a 15 year old Tennessee Walker is a very sweet gelding. He is very independent and could care less if he is around other horses or humans or not. When I put him out with the other horses, he stands at the gate to the barn and refuses to go into the pasture. When the other horses try to get to know him, he will run away from them, circle the arena and up back at the gate to the barn. I have never had a horse that refuses to associate with other horses or go out to the pasture to eat grass. He would prefer to stay in the barn and hang out in the stalls. My barn leads to an arena and then from the arena there is a run that goes behind the house to the pasture. I tried taking him out to the pasture and closing the gate that leads back to the run and eventually back to the barn and he simply paces back and forth in front of the gate. He did that for 2 hours. When I finally went and opened the gate for him, he just calmly walked back to the stalls and stood there waiting for me to open the gate so he could get back into the stall area. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on what is up with this sweet boy? How can I make him more comfortable? It seems like he is afraid of the other horses, could he be? Thanks in advance, Tina
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Cheryl Kallenbach
Member
Username: Cheryl

Post Number: 226
Registered: 2-2000
Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tina - do you know if this horse was shown Big Lick? If so - he was kept in a stall - except to be taken out and worked. 0 time out of the stall. I'm guessing here - but I would imagine the situation would be the same for horses shown Plantation with the big heavy shoes that are held on with metal straps across the hoof. If this is the case - it will just take time for him to learn to be a horse.
CK
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Kim
Member
Username: Twhgait

Post Number: 107
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

yes, plantation shod horses are also usually kept in...but, I agree with Cheryl; he probably just never got time out with others. I would think after awhile he would start to get used to the routine. Is there anyway to get him out with just one horse at a time? Maybe it's less intimidating to him that way?
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Dennis Taylor
Member
Username: Dtranch

Post Number: 339
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tina ..
I think Cheryl has a point. I have only had one horse act just as you describe. She came to me as a boarding horse who was stalled 24/7 at her previous barn for 3 years. Only out for cleaning or occasional riding. She had no fear of other horses, but would just rather be alone or hang with me than be with the herd.
DT
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Tina Ware
Member
Username: Tinaw40

Post Number: 18
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Cheryl,
I know very little about this guy. I purchased him from a large stable that trains western performance horses. The stable took him as a partial trade on an eventing horse. I live in Arizona and purchased him out of Texas so I hauled him home. When I got him, his toes were extremely long and he walked as if he wasn't used to walking, if that makes any sense. Our farrier trimmed him and he is walking better and better. I wasn't sure if he walked that way (kind of weird) because of the long toes or......have no clue. He is a very sweet boy though. I can tell when I ride him that he isn't highly trained so I am presuming he was ridden on trail only. Why his feet were like that is beyond me. I am guessing it was simple neglect. I take in rescue horses as well and I've just never had or dealt with a horse that refuses to socialize with other horses or that refuses to go to pasture or leave the stall area. It's very weird to me.
Thanks a bunch,
Tina
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Tina Ware
Member
Username: Tinaw40

Post Number: 19
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Kim and Dennis,
Thanks for responding.
Yes, I have had him out with the lowest guy on the totem pole and he still refuses to have any interaction with him. I have tied that approach with three of my four other horses as they all are very kind natured (one is a yearling). And, the same with all three. He just does not want anything to do with them. He is stalled between two of my horses (nice guys) and he won't interact with them and horses normally do by playing over the stall bars, etc. He will just stand in the middle of the stall and stare out at the desert. The more I think about what you guys are saying, i.e. him being stalled all of the time at his previous home; the more it makes sense. His comfort zone is in his stall. Time will be his friend then. Should I continue to try and let him out with the other guys? If so, should it be for just a short period, and then progress a little longer and longer? I fear he will do nothing but pace at the gate to get back to the stall. Would that be stressful for him since he is new to this area and his whole life has changed? This is all new to me so I really appreciate your input.
Thanks, Tina
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CherylA
Member
Username: Canderso

Post Number: 309
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tina,
I was given a school master from a very good quality show barn in the area. To protect the horses, they were turned out solo (although with adjoining paddocks).
When we first turned the horse out with a herd, he behaved exactly as you describe. He didn't interact with the others and couldn't wait to get inside.

He did eventually 'learn to be a horse' again. I was thrilled the day I heard he had refused to come in from 24 hour turnout... (he was retired by then)

I guess I am saying, just give him some time. It could very well be all new to him.
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 845
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

All I can say Tina, is that if he was a 'big lick' padded horse, then he has you to thank for rescuing him from that life! It may not be the case, but if it was....he is going to be a much happier horse now once he learns to relax and understand that he isn't going to be subjected to whatever he was subjected to in his past life.

It will likely just take time and tlc for him to learn how to be a happy horse again.
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Karen Trojnar
Member
Username: Karent

Post Number: 42
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tina,

If he is registered and you have his papers, let me know what his registered name is and I can find out if he was shown either big lick or plantation.

I own 5 walkers myself. I don't show, I'm only a trail rider. However, I do have access to IPEDS and can find out anything you want to know about your horse, including former owners.
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jojo
Member
Username: Jojo15

Post Number: 881
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have a horse that hates all other horses.. tried for years and lots of injuries later.. to no avail ... until i got her a mini... and now the two are totally bonded... I thought i was never going to find her a friend to hang out with... so time and patience i think... and from your description it just seems your horse forgot what he is...Hopefully he'll come around.
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Tina Ware
Member
Username: Tinaw40

Post Number: 20
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 - 6:17 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi all!
Karen, Unfortunately, this guy is not registered. Thanks for the offer though.
Sherri, not sure what kind of life he had before coming to me but I am glad I have him too. He certainly needs a whole lot of love and understanding.
JoJo, he doesn't hate horses, he acts like he is scared of them. And, I think you are right, I think Chance has forgotten what and more importantly WHO he is. It is like he has no individual characteristics at all. I see a little more everyday but, he came with none. Very sad. I didn't need another horse but something told me to buy this guy and sure am glad I did.
Cheryl, I think you hit the nail on the head too. All of you have. This guy is not comfortable in a setting with other horses no matter how nice they are. His comfort zone is in the stall, period. It is like he has been stalled and separated from horses for so long that, that is what he feels is normal.
Thank you to all of you. I have seen abuse and neglect cases by the dozen but this guy's emotional status takes the cake. He doesn't have a clue about what or who he is. I will be patient and offer tons of love and kindness and take one day at a time.
Thanks again, Tina
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Cheryl Kallenbach
Member
Username: Cheryl

Post Number: 227
Registered: 2-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 - 8:01 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tina - I wouldn't be surprised to find that he is registered and that he was no longer cutting it in the show ring and just went down the road without his papers. His really long feet is a dead give-away. The reason he doesn't know anything is because he was never taught to do anything but go around in the arena in gait. Just give him time - If you have a really mellow horse that gets along with everyone - keep them as close together as possible. If you have access to a really large stall - try putting them in it together while you are putzing around in the barn - One of these days - if his mind isn't as fried as his feet probably were - he will come out of it and you will have a happy horse on your hands.
I'm very glad you decided he needed a new home too:-) CK
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LL
Member
Username: Frances

Post Number: 316
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Um, excuse my ignorance, but what is Big Lick??
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 849
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/biglicktwh/

It's a horrible practice of padding the hooves and soring the soles of the feet of this wonderful breed to make them step high, very unnatural and in my opinion, very inhumane.
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 850
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

http://www.friendsofsoundhorses.org/

http://www.friendsofsoundhorses.org/docs/More_than_Sore.pdf

This is a good article to explain things.
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Erika L
Member
Username: Erika

Post Number: 560
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Maybe he is just a really submissive horse. He might feel like it is too much work to socialize if he is worried about being bossed around.
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 851
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Just my experience, but even a horse that gets bossed around a lot wants to be with the herd.
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Erika L
Member
Username: Erika

Post Number: 562
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I don't know...Have had a very submissive guy that would like to be in view, but not too close. Others would eat together in a group and he would be on the other side of the pasture. He would neigh if they were taken away though, so there was some connection.
Tonya's horse is new to the group so maybe he is a little wary to get too close at first?
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 852
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 22, 2006 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

You're right Erika. I guess I should have been more precise. While a submissive horse that gets picked on quite a bit will usually keep his distance, he usually still likes to be in view of the herd.

After we've introduced a new horse to the herd, if the newbie is continually picked on or chased, we sometimes segregate the newbie to an adjoining pen at feeding time or overnight just to provide some peace and quiet, but if the rest of the herd decides to leave the corrals and go out to pasture without the newbie, he/she will initially put up quite a fuss wanting to go with the herd.
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LL
Member
Username: Frances

Post Number: 317
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 22, 2006 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sherri - thank you for the links. I feel physically sickened by what I've read, and the photographs shown. How common is this despicable practice nowadays? Please tell me it's rare.
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 855
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 22, 2006 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Mostly predominant, I believe, in the southern States, but even there, I do believe it is on the decline, however it has been a huge industry, the TWHBEA WGC Celebration has been going on for years , but this year was cancelled due to the controversary surrounding the 'inhumane' practice of padding, stacking and soring, of some unscrupulous and uncaring owners and trainers, all for the sake of a ribbon! This is currently an issue being fought hard by people who advocate sound horses.

This is just an article I found on the web that will describe a little better than I could what happened at this year's TWH Celebration.

I'm sure there are people on this board that are better informed on this topic than I am since it is something completely foreign to most owners of walking horses in Canada. There are no 'Big Lick' shows up here, nor have there ever been, to the best of my knowledge anyway.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060903/NEWS01/60903002
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Tina Ware
Member
Username: Tinaw40

Post Number: 21
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Thursday, Nov 23, 2006 - 7:38 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the replies and...I am very glad that this "big lick" practice is on the decline. What a horrible thing these poor guys have/had to go through. I just don't understand how some people can intentionally harm/hurt these beautiful and loving creatures for personal gain. But then again, I can't understand why anyone would hurt any animal.
An update on Chance..... I have a coming 4 year old TWH named Koa that is totally a play baby. He loves everyone and everything so I kept Koa and Chance in the arena (with full access to the stalls) and placed everyone else in the pasture. By the end of the day, Chance and Koa were buddies and Chance was going into the arena and looking down the run to the pasture watching the other guys. Wow...what an improvement!!!! I was really worried about this guy and very happy to see that he is coming out of his shell a bit. I have no idea what has happened to him or what he has endured in his past but, he is with me now and will receive nothing but love and understanding and I think he is beginning to see that. His feet were very bad and the front toes were very, very long. Although my shoer is taking it slow on getting him set right, Chance is still getting used to his new footing. Personally, I think he had been that long on purpose and for a long time. The shoes weren't that old and they were set at the tips of the toes. Also, the shoes he arrived in were a size 0 and my shoer replaced them with a 2. He is a beautiful boy (black and white paint)in both body and mind and I see a little more of his wonderful personality every day. I am truly glad he is here. I will take a good picture of him today and share it with you guys.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Tina
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Cheryl Kallenbach
Member
Username: Cheryl

Post Number: 228
Registered: 2-2000
Posted on Thursday, Nov 23, 2006 - 7:54 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

LL - the practice is far from gone. Senators McConnell and Frist are currently working to gut the Horse Protection Act (which was passed in 1970 to stop soring) because of what happened at the Celebration this year --- it wasn't cancelled - just the Grand Championship Class was cancelled - the sorers are still screaming "Unfair" at the top of their lungs. The Big Lick is tied up in so much greed and ego I will be surprised if they can ever wipe it out. The really sad part is that it's not just the top contenders that are being tortured - it's happening all across Tennessee - Kentucky - Florida - California - at every little week-end show with a $1.98 blue ribbon. If Frist and McConnell are successful in their quest - soring will mushroom all across the United States. It's a really scary time for gaited breeds right now.
CK
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LL
Member
Username: Frances

Post Number: 318
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, Nov 23, 2006 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

It's hard to imagine there being any senatorial support for this. Since the skeleton is out of the cupboard and soring is now public knowledge, you would think there would be a huge clampdown on the practice. There will always be cruelty and greed (and unfortunately the horse world has more than its share of these), but for shows to continue to allow the participation of horses treated like this, and for senators to actually strive to REVOKE laws protecting innocent animals is mind-boggling.

I can't get those photos out of my head.

Tina - at least some good news about your new boy. Looking forward to seeing his pic!
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Karen Trojnar
Member
Username: Karent

Post Number: 43
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Thursday, Nov 23, 2006 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Senator Frist is from Tennessee. The celebration is a big money maker for the state. It's the largest attended horse show in America (or so I've been told). If the Big Lick horses go away so does the celebration as that is what the people want to see. That is what all the owners and trainers are there for, to see who has the best Big Lick horse.

If Tennessee loses the Celebration, their state loses alot of tourist $$$$$$$.
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Tina Ware
Member
Username: Tinaw40

Post Number: 22
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Thursday, Nov 23, 2006 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi all!
Here's a picture of Chance. It's not the greatest pic but it will give you an idea of what he looks like!
Today was an awesome day for Chance. He's really coming out of his shell. I guess I just didn't give him enough time to get adjusted to his new home. Although he didn't go into the pasture area with the gang, he did venture out and down the run to the pasture. He stopped at the opening to the pasture and stared at them for awhile and then turned around and went back to his cozy stall area. He did that several times as if he were looking to make sure they were still there and then back to his safe haven of the stalls. He still has a way to go but at least he is venturing out though, right!
Hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving!
Tina

Chance
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Cheryl Kallenbach
Member
Username: Cheryl

Post Number: 229
Registered: 2-2000
Posted on Friday, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:16 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ah - Tina - what a pretty boy he is. Just give him time and bunches of scratchies - he'll come around - Hope you are able to spend many happy hours with him - he's earned them!!
CK
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Erika L
Member
Username: Erika

Post Number: 565
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, Nov 24, 2006 - 9:28 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

An interesting point about the World Championship: the class was "cancelled" because a lot of the disqualified owners told the announcer that no one would enter, out of protest.

The owners whose horses passed the inspection were ready to go in and compete, but they weren't given the chance due to gang tactics by the ones who didn't pass.

One of the disqualified trainers offered the passing trainers $10,000 each NOT to compete. He was turned down by all of them.

The passing horses' owners didn't know the class was cancelled until the crowds heard the announcement and began to leave.

Sounds like they not only bully their horses, but the bully legitimate owners/trainers too.
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