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Discussion on Question on downward transitions on the diagonal and the long side from canter to trot | |
Author | Message |
Member: Corinne |
Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 6:30 pm: When working on First test one Demetrius gets very excited at the canter depart at A on the right lead and then is usually very excited until we get to E and then when we come across the diagonal at MXF and have to trot at X, I am having the dickens of a time with the downward transition to trot. This is only on the diagonal and only a problem during this movement on the first lead. We do not have the same problem with the downward transitions when we are working on circles. He is still quite young but is very receptive. Are there any exercises I can do to help our downward transitions both on the diagonal and the long side because in test two the first downward transition from canter to trot on the long side is a bit hard as well. I would appreciate any helpful tips that I can use as I am not taking lessons this month (I also mean not for this to be a heated discussion as the dressage posts usually are) and have a show coming up.Just looking for some insight that others have used in the same situation working on the first level tests. Thanks! Corinne |
Member: Corinne |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 - 10:12 am: Well I guess adding the "I don't want this to be heated post" detracted anyone from responding LOL. If anyone can help please email my LtSassy1@aol.com address. I would really be Thankful! |
Member: Dres |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 - 10:26 am: Corinne, there are no magic fixes sometimes it just takes practice / practice / and then again more practice.. Start on what is easier.. continue with your training on the circle.. make it clear what you want and reward .. move over to the long side, if he is not responding the same go back to the circles again.. then move to the long side.. etc.. Nothing is easy in Dressage it takes time and timing and strength..It sounds like your horse is falling on his forehand on the long side.. but is able to keep himself under better on the circle (( just a guess)) .. so keep practicing and building from there... On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.. |
Member: Corinne |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 - 10:46 am: Thanks Ann...yes I bet you are right...because he has an easier time working through on the circle really getting up under himself but at the canter on the long side he gets excited and maybe hollows a bit and thus is more on the forehand so I will practice practice practice. I really do think you have made an accurate assessment.Thank you thank you. Will work on that and some exercises another member emailed me about. |
Member: Maggienm |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 - 11:29 am: Corinne, I agree with Ann, if the horse isn't quite strong enough, which as I'm sure you know affects his balance and ability to stay under hinmself, he will struggle with the downward transition. Esp since you say he has more trouble on one side than the other it seems he understands what you want he is just not quite able to do it.It could also be he is just a bit less supple on his bad side, does he do leg yield both directions equally? It might be a good idea to check your own aids. W.Zetl suggests to give a half halt on the inside rein, also to think a slight shoulder-in position, this will help bring the inside hind leg under. cheerio, |
Member: Stevens |
Posted on Monday, Dec 18, 2006 - 4:57 pm: Corinne,It sounds like your horse may be rushing. If so, you may want to try a technique I learned when doing Western Trail courses; stop where the horse tends to rush. In your case, it may be before the canter depart, or in the middle of the diagonal where your transition to trot occurs. Also, you may want to not practice the entire test frequently, but rather the piece parts. |
Member: Corinne |
Posted on Monday, Dec 18, 2006 - 9:52 pm: Ann, Lori, and Chris,I am happy to report you are all right and all of your advice has helped. But I do have something funny to add....I tried each and every exercise everyone has mentioned, and even not practicing the test as a whole, just parts, and it was coming along somewhat, but nothing was really working and our downward transitions on the long side and across the diagonal were not nice. I am happy to report today however that when we picked up the canter nicely at A and came across the diagonal, when he rushed and refused the downward transition, I had asked more strongly with the aides than I normally would have, and when he did not respond (with his nose high in the air in protest) I tapped him with my new flex whip and followed that with stern voice. The next time around he seemed more responsive as we rounded the corner so this time I decided something new....I actually used voice commands in conjunction with my normal aides. When we approached X I said in a nice calm voice trot and sure enough he did the nicest downward transition we have ever done (albeit slightly before X) so I followed that with big pats on his neck with lots of Good Boy Good Boy Good Boy like you would do with a dog. We did the voice commands with the regular aides the next few times either on the long side or across the diagonal, followed by lots of verbal good boys and sure enough, by the end of schooling we were hitting them spot on. I know this sounds silly but I learned dressage before I learned to ride and was told speaking to the horse was always a huge no no. So even though I speak to him on the lunge and on the ground I have never used my voice as an aide in the saddle. I can not believe how responsive he was when I asked him verbally to perform the movement in conjunction with the appropriate aides and he really seemed to enjoy the verbal rewards and pats. I bet in the next few weeks our downward transitions from canter on anything other than the circle will come along quite nicely and he will just happily oblige with my normal aides. How interesting...talking to a smart animal and getting a response then rewarding him with pat and voice! What a novel idea! I seriously feel ignorant for having never tried talking to him before in our training. I think it was a light bulb moment. He is such a smart smart smart boy. I am so proud of him. Will be in touch as we continue with the process. Thanks for everyone’s advice, posting and through email. Take care, Corinne |
Member: Dres |
Posted on Monday, Dec 18, 2006 - 10:28 pm: Corinne, I am laughing with you.. I always teach my young horses voice commands from the very beginning.. ex: my 6 month old colt, when we go for a daily walk / lesson when I slow down I will say ''annnnddd whoa..'' When we continue on I will say '' walk on'' then later on the lunge line they learn the three voice commands for the gaits... making it all that easier when I ride them for the first time.. I have yet to have a young / mounted horse not pick up the canter when ''asked'' along with the asking I am doing the physical Q's.. They learn and later won't need the verbal..Great fun... On the first day God created horses on the second day he painted them with spots.. |
Member: Gillb |
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 - 4:37 am: The first thing I ever teach my horses is the voice commands, so it makes their understanding of the paces when ridden so much easier. I even use them in dressage - albeit through gritted teeth in case the judge notices!! I don't understand why you can't use them anyway, they are just another aid.Another thing I taught my horse is to put their head down to the floor on command - and this transfers to riding, if their heads come up too high I say 'head down' and they respond! They don't go right down to the floor but they do lower it. I think horses love being talked to anyway, even if they don't have a clue what you are on about mostly! |
Member: 36541 |
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 - 6:51 am: Hurray for the light bulb moments in life! What fun! I too have to struggle not to talk to my horses in the arena - I'm not above a little ventriloquism myself. I have always talked on cross country because I'm always riding babies. My Mom says when I was a pre-teen in Pony Club you could hear me cheering my horse on through the entire course - didn't need the announcer to know where I was! Now I know I was cheering myself on as well, and will still say to self "Sit back, wait, wait, ..." in stadium riding. Congrats to you, I think it enhances the bond between you and your partner. Oh, I saw on a video that Anky van Grunsen talks to all her horses when training, especially to teach the whoa. |
Member: Canter |
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 - 10:04 am: If I remember right, I think it was Robert Dover who admitted talking softly to his horse, even in the middle of his tests. The trick is not letting the judge see (or hear) it. Talking was a huge worry for me when I showed my mare for the first time last summer as I chat incessently to her during schooling. I considered clear duct tape over my mouth, those whitening trays for your teeth (hey! ride and whiten at the same time!) and a huge wad of gum...decided to just try to keep my mouth shut. In the end, it didn't matter as my horse got just a tad bit hot in the ring and I said EASY! and S**t just about every step of the way.... |
Member: Maggienm |
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 - 10:20 am: Love those light bulbs. They keep things bright!Oh,yeah, I teach verbal commands, amazing how much it helps esp during the first few rides.I 'coach' myself too! Since you are so close to the horse and he can hear what the judge can't, just don't move your lips! |