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Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1587
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 9:52 am: |   |
He's only 4, 17 hands... off the track thoroughbred. Supposedly an old soul. All my animals are old souls... I'm going to look at him today. Could anyone please tell me what you think of his conformation? I'm looking only for soundness. I'll only get to second level, maybe school third in my lifetime, so I'm not looking for upper level. |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1588
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 9:54 am: | |
Also, if he doesn't work out for me, he would be a resale. I'm also looking for resale value after some training. Thank you! |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1589
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 10:09 am: | |
OR, I could take over Alona
She's 23 and an awesome horse, soundness issues, needs quite a bit of maintenance.
And I must confess, after all I've been through with Brave, I sort of want a younger sound horse that I can apply all I've learned from Brave.
The OTTB has a mild suspensory strain. Is not lame, they say he's stoic, hates to run. The jockey evidently begged him to run just once. So he did and came from 20 lengths behind to win by a nose in his third race. The jockey told the owner I asked him for once, he won't run again. So the owner is trying to find him a forever home. |
Ann
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 1101
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 10:21 am: | |
Ok, Aileen, how tall are you? How skilled are you in working with Tall/ young horses that can be pushy and scary at times.. ?? He is lovely... the 'mild' suspensory strain.. who diagnosed that? Does that mean no tears? If he is on rehab, we are going into winter, will he be easy to hand walk? Or when trotting starts, will you be able to jump on top without lunging him first? Lots of questions for you to Hummmm on...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.. |
Gwen Robison
Member
Username: Gwen
Post Number: 287
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 10:42 am: | |
Aileen, from another person who has dealt with soundness issues, TAKE YOUR TIME! I don't know about you, but I am REALLY scrutinizing prospects' soundness because although anything can happen, I don't want to START with problems. In this market, you may get something on the cheaper side that is completely sound. For that tb to be four with a suspensory problem... I haven't had any horses with suspensory issues, but someone once told me that that is a lameness that is pretty tricky because that area is used all the time. Take my opinions with a grain of salt-I just felt compelled to write because I am in your same position! GOOD LUCK! |
Cheryl Kallenbach
Member
Username: Cheryl
Post Number: 265
Registered: 2-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 10:59 am: | |
Aileen - have you had any experience with OTTB's?
The one I had was an absolutely awesome horse - but - when I took her to her first dressage show it was held at the Fairgrounds - the starting gate was parked right in front of the arena we were using. All she wanted was away from that terrible contraption. I was beginning to think I wasn't going to be able to get her mind back. Her first test was a combination of movements above the ground combined with sideways salutes to the judges. We did a few reining spins and twice scooted straight across the ring in unbelievable side passes - which of course were not called for. She actually placed third in her second test - really surprised the judges.
When we "finished" our first test I was laughing so hard I had tears running down my face.
This was not an isolated incident with her - her racing career was really hard on her and it took a lot to overcome. That said - she was worth every panic we had to work through.
Just be sure you get a really thorough Vet check before buying him. I hate to say that because I love him - but you don't want another lame horse.
Cheryl |
Chris Stevens
Member
Username: Stevens
Post Number: 203
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 11:17 am: | |
Aileen,
I understand your desire to look for a young, sound horse after your experience with Brave. May I suggest an alternative; a not-so-young sound horse. My quarter horse boy was 13 when he died after a several years search for the lameness source.
Instead of taking a chance on a young horse, I opted to spend a little more money and go with a horse that was 13 and was actively performing at the discipline I wanted to pursue. After a major vet check, the bottom line was that he was very sound AND had been working for years already.
While it's no guarantee of continued soundness, I felt good knowing that he had stood up to work that was actually more than I would expect him to do for me. Oh, and he'd never had a joint supplement or injections in his life. It's been 15 months and no problems.
Best of Luck,
Chris |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1590
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 11:38 am: | |
Ann, I'm only 5'7" on a tall day, and 17 hands is really too big for me... but if he is the gentle giant they say he is.......... it may be ok.
Evidently during his handwalking, they put little kids on his back and he was perfectly fine with it.
I'm actually ok on the ground with horses. I guess I have a way if I can teach them my way. If I can't... well, we'll find out today.
Cheryl, He does not like to run, when asked he would just "loly gag" along... He is supposedly a very laid back fellow... which I would LOVE to have.
Could a weakened suspensory hold him back? I would think so, from higher levels...will be talking to the attending vet and go from there.
Gwen, yes, I hear you... but this one just popped up. I've missed two OTTBs that I could have had and turned out to be perfect horses... so I am going to look at least.
Chris, I completely agree, and if I had the money laying around, I would do that. I have actually found many horses but were way too much money for my budget. He's only $1,000 AND negotiable! Unfortunately I am limited.
So do I go for the tried and true and risk losing her in the next few years? Or do I gamble on this 4 year old? As I said above, I've waited and lost out before...
edited to add.... this post is only based on him winning me over and his responses to me. It's highly possible he won't be the one. |
Cheryl Kallenbach
Member
Username: Cheryl
Post Number: 266
Registered: 2-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 12:01 pm: | |
Misty didn't like to run either - that was the problem - I think she must have spent the majority of her time at the track being scared out of her mind. It sounds like this horses trainer is a little more in tuned to his horses than Misty's was. Hope everything works out with him.
Cheryl |
Erika L
Member
Username: Erika
Post Number: 659
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 12:11 pm: | |
Aileen, does a suspensory strain mean a bowed tendon?
I think he is adorable, and sounds like a really nice laid back guy.
Pre-purchase is of course, no guarantee, just a status check.I would say have your vet check him out and if he gives him the green light, you have as good a chance of him staying sound as any other horse.
Around here a four-year-old, 17 hand, laid back beauty would get a lot more than $1,000. Good luck! |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1591
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 12:43 pm: | |
Thank you Cheryl, I'm not putting what you said out of my mind... will ask more questions of the owner 
Erica, I don't think a suspensory is the same as a bowed tendon, I'd actually rather him have a bow...someone correct me if I'm wrong.
So do you guys think if I did take him on and needed to sell him, he would be easy to sell? I wouldn't have to ask a lot since he is so inexpensive...
I'm off to see him, will update if my computer allows when I get back |
Frank & Judy Magula
Member
Username: Magulas
Post Number: 16
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 12:57 pm: | |
Aileen,
If he doesn't work out, checkout dreamhorse.com #933739 from zip code 92561. Taken from track training when trainer wanted to pin fire him. Never raced 17HH and a big baby.. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 1713
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 2:38 pm: | |
Aileen,
I don't know how to advise you, but I know I would probably end up with him, as long as the vet conferred about the suspensory.
I have a 17h Appendix who is the gentlest one of my guys. A hot little 14h Morab can seem an awful lot bigger on the ground or with me in the saddle than a quiet, 17h gentleman.
Look forward to hearing about your visit with him.
If he doesn't work out, don't despair . . . there are LOTS of horses "out there," and they all need good homes . . . From all you've done for Brave, I'd say that you'd be a great home for any candidate. |
Ann
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 1102
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 2:57 pm: | |
resale? Its a matter of having the right person at the right time to resell.. You could have a quick turn around or be 'stuck' for what seems forever...
Have fun trying him out..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted with spots. |
Lori
Member
Username: Maggienm
Post Number: 332
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 5:31 pm: | |
Aileen, strictly speaking, his hip-butt-stifle triangle looks nearly equilateral to me, which is more of a jumper trait, his stifle is low, again this is great for a jumper, in dressage it could mean he has to work harder at collection.
His LS joint is behind his point of hip so you may have to work harder to get his loin strong. I think his hock angle is a bit open for dressage, but he does appear to have nice pasterns and nicely trimmed hooves.
HIs shoulder angle looks OK and he's not heavy in front, (a line through his front leg up through his neck) this is good for a dressage horse.
It could be the picture but he looks back at the knee, not too serious if he is not a jumper or eventer(or roper or reiner)
His neck seems thin but as you pointed out he is only 4 and ott.
Bonus, he doesn't appear to have the dip just in front of his withers that many TB's have.
He seems nice enough to be a good prospect, you could school him (jumpers should know basic dressage anyway) and keep looking for the 'just right' one.
I really like the mare, too bad she has issues. |
Catherine McCourt
Member
Username: Kstud
Post Number: 108
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 6:37 pm: | |
Hi Aileen,
Just my opinion ok,
1. I am a vet and I have a horse with a suspensory problem. Once a suspensory problem always a potential suspensory problem. Just one mis-step, usually when you are just ready to show and 6 -12 months rehab again.
2. I would not like his conformation greatly which could predispose to more ligament problems ie straight hindleg and back of the knee. They are not the worst I have seen by a long shot and if he was 100% sound would not be so much of a problem,
3. He has a big shoulder and long wither which would make saddle fit difficult.
4. No-one can tell a horses real attitude until it is put under pressure and that especially holds true for thoroughbreds. Can you loan him for a few months and see how he holds up to work?
I wish you all the best Aileen but as someone who has let her heart rule her head too many times and is thousands and thousands down on horses. My advice is always buy sound, never buy too young or too old and ALWAYS take home on trial for at at least a week. Good Luck |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1592
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 9:31 pm: | |
Thanks to all of you, much appreciated!
He was very nice on the ground, a little pushy, but for the most part a gentleman, , a train went by with its horn blaring... but he didn't spook. His legs did start shaking while I was handgrazing him ... maybe from being cold. The suspensory, while not a tear, is an issue for me. I was told, as Catherine stated, that since he has a strain now, it would be easy to tear.
Ann, I could tell I would be more than a little apprehensive about hopping on when it came to the trotting, if I didn't have help. How I wish I had more courage...
Holly, Lori and Catherine, Frank and Judy (I'll check on Dreamhorse) thanks for the feedback
Alona is a wonderful mare, I just want a horse I don't have to worry about. For just a year?? My ideal is what Chris mentioned ... a younger horse is what I want right now, maybe not 4 ... but definitely younger than 23 ... I won’t despair and I’ll try to be patient. The more I think about it, I really do want to apply all I've learned to another horse ...
Hopefully something else will come along...my friend said I may have to look out of state... |
Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk
Post Number: 677
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 13, 2007 - 11:46 pm: | |
Aileen,
I would not buy him for dressage because of his straight hind leg angles. That is just me.
Alicia |
Erika L
Member
Username: Erika
Post Number: 660
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, Jan 14, 2007 - 10:19 am: | |
Aileen, I see you want something for just a year? Or am I missing something?
If that is the case, I wouldn't take on any sort of project. Go for sound and trained and enjoy your year.
What about the possibility of leasing? I've said a million times here on HA, it's a lot easier to buy a horse than to sell one! Especially if there are any soundness problems. |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1593
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, Jan 14, 2007 - 11:56 am: | |
Thank you Alicia
Erika, no the horse I buy would be with me for life, I'm just hoping for one year of soundness |
jos
Member
Username: Paardex
Post Number: 163
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Jan 14, 2007 - 5:01 pm: | |
Aileen especially after your experiences with Brave you need a really sound horse to get confidence. I always urge people to buy as healthy a horse as they can find. Please take your time I am sure you will find a horse you can afford without any health or age issues.If you buy for life what are a few extra months of searching?
Good Luck Jos |
Chris Stevens
Member
Username: Stevens
Post Number: 204
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 1:18 pm: | |
Aileen,
I know it's hard to do, but don't pass up looking at a horse that is advertised above your budget. That doesn't mean be one of those annoying lookyloos, but it can only help to have more data on what horses are priced at that meet or exceed your criteria.
It took me close to 2 years to find my current boy, during which time I was able to catch rides (I'm at a public boarding stable), continue the elusive lameness search, and save more money. I let everyone and their brother/sister/uncle know I was looking and got a couple of referrals as a result.
Also, I would be very upfront about your trials with Brave and all you've done; I don't think you could invent a better personal reference/recommendation. I know that my reputation as a responsible horse owner was the driving factor for getting the catch rides and helped negotiate the purchase of my new horse.
As jos says; if you're buying for life ....
Chris |
Dawn Winans
Member
Username: Dwinans
Post Number: 80
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 5:54 pm: | |
Aileen,
Just to give you my experience. I bought a 17hh 5 yr old OTT gelding 6 years ago. He had spent a year turned out when I bought him. I had a huge learning curve because I didn't know thoroughbreds but the work has been worth it. Even though he is a complete gentleman I have learned to deal with the crazies when we go to shows. He just can't help himself - he reverts back to being a racehorse. We have worked through it and have won many Champion and Reserve Champion ribbons in the hunter/jumpers. I can't overstate the satisfaction of knowing that we have worked through the issues (with the help from my trainer) and made him what he is today.
My horse, Remy, sounds a lot like your prospect both physically and mentally. I would definitely say Remy is an old-soul. As one of the posts above stated, I have had challenges with saddle-fitting but I found one that is perfect.
I can't comment on your prospect's soundness issues. Only you can determine what you are willing to risk. No horse is perfect or risk-free - some are just less risky than others.
Thoroughbreds are challenging but if you get one with a good brain they are extremely satisfying as well.
Good luck! |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1595
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 - 12:46 pm: | |
Thank you Jos, Chris and Dawn
Yes, I do need to be more patient and to just go look at a bunch of horses. You all do realize that you're part of my therapy... don't you?
Thanks so much. I really appreciate all the input. |
Chris Stevens
Member
Username: Stevens
Post Number: 206
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 - 1:07 pm: | |
Patient; what we choose to be instead of crazy when things are out of our control!!! 
Hang in there!
Chris |
