Site Menu:
This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below: |
HorseAdvice.com » Training, Behavior, & Conditioning Horses » Behavior and Training » Beginning the Two Year Old » |
Discussion on How would you re-educate an older horse? | |
Author | Message |
Member: Tommygee |
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 7, 2004 - 8:51 pm: Being extremely green to the equine world & now owning a 15yrold Arab who i know has been taught the basics & more (of which I myself do not know)- my question is...Do I start from scatch to esablish a form of communication that we both understand & build from there & basically carry on as if he knew nothing at all to start with?? Unless of course he responds correctly to whatever exercise because of his previous training.By starting from scratch I mean.. Should I do the Monty Roberts "Join-up" & "Follow-up" thing to gain trust & respect as the alpha....then go through the ground work of Parelli's "Seven Games" so that i know what to do if i want my boy to do something & in turn he understands what it is i am asking from him. I know there is a lot of varied oppinions in regard to Pppp..parelli stuff, but I'm in a position where I do not know yet which of my new horse people friends I can rely on for the type of advice I'm looking for & the person who previously had my boy has moved away thus i can't get her to show me what I need to do to get the response he's already been taught. I know that you listen to everyones advice & opinions & take on board what you feel is appropriate. It's just so frustrating & overwhelming... I just really want to START & build on both our training/education correctly from the word go & stop PROCRASTINATING!!!!! My plan of attack is to establish a basic understanding & communication with my boy from the ground by doing the above Monty & Parelli stuff before jumping into his saddle to receive riding lessons. I have joined up with a trail riding club as pleasure riding is all that I would like to do at this time. Even so, I still don't want to go on any rides until I have established some form of communication on the ground with my boy that we both understand. Maybe that will mean that I've wasted a yrs $$$ membership... but anyway. What do you all think? Does my plan sound as though I'm starting off on the right foot & heading in the right direction? Has anyone else got a suggestion for a plan of attack? Thanks Christine |
Member: Savanah |
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 7, 2004 - 11:44 pm: Congratulations on your new horse. It sounds like you want to do the right thing by establishing good communication with him. I urge you to work with a qualified natural horsemanship trainer if you are considering doing the Parelli/ Monty Roberts "thing" (as you put it). The reason I say that is because those techniques require you to have very good timing and the ability to see the tiniest "try" from your horse. If you are a novice then you may not know what to look for and you could end up souring your horse on the whole thing. It sounds like your horse already knows his job - maybe you should trust him to teach you. You could start by taking some riding lessons. A good riding teacher will show you how to handle your horse on the ground as well as under saddle. You should also just spend a lot of time around your horse -watching him in his pasture, grooming him, taking him for walks, etc. - let him get to know you and trust you. You don't want to barge out there and do some big show of being "alpha" if he is a good natured, well trained horse - that could actually backfire on you. |
Member: Gillb |
Posted on Thursday, Jan 8, 2004 - 4:48 am: Hi Christine, I would say if you are a novice then the first thing to do is get yourself some good instruction. There is no reason you cannot do whatever you want to do with your horse but you should aim to do the right thing with as little confusion on the horse's part as possible, and for this you need correct basic knowledge. I agree with Michelle that however you intend to work your horse you should first seek help from a qualified practitioner as it is always better to be shown first hand initially if you have little experience rather than try and learn from books/videos, although these do have their place - but they are generally better understood once you have been shown the basics.IMO the best way to get to know your horse is by doing ground work, I am a great believer in it and think you can build up a respectful relationship much quicker than under saddle. It doesn't matter how long you work your horse inhand, there is no law that says you must get up on his back after one week! You will find you get to know your horse better and vice versa, and he will be more liable to trust you once you decide to ride him. There is a lot to understanding horses which usually takes years to learn (in fact you never stop learning!). Horses respond very much to body language and you will find that in doing ground work a lot of body postures are required, and it will help you see how he responds to you. If you find you are not getting on with a particular instructor then find another who can communicate to you in the way you are happy with. Finally don't forget we all make mistakes, there is nothing wrong with that so long as you learn from them and seek proper help if you are having problems. Have fun with your horse! |
Member: Roboski |
Posted on Thursday, Jan 8, 2004 - 10:04 am: Hi, ChristineGosh, you sound like me 5 years ago; "I'm gonna learn it ALL and learn it all NOW!". Wonderful enthusiasm & excitement. I started riding well up in my 40's (OK, so now you know just how old I AM) and I agree with the others that a teacher is the way to go. I knew about horsekeeping because my son has ridden since he was six but the whole concept of me on a horse was daunting.I've learned from three different teachers who all had great things to give me, but I've learned the most from my horse. Just get to know yours first of all and be patient with yourself. I'm so happy for you! |
Member: Lhenning |
Posted on Thursday, Jan 8, 2004 - 11:13 am: Hi Christine,I am also a novice. I purchased my first horse last February and its been an interesting first year of learning. Right when I bought him, I started taking lessons, both training and riding lessons. I highly recommend getting with a qualified instructor who can watch you doing groundwork, and to work with you once you get in the saddle too. I have learned that both rider and horse are in training, every day we are together. I do read a lot of books, but you need the feedback that comes from a teachers interaction to really get you on the right track. Good luck with your new horse! Linda |
Member: Christos |
Posted on Thursday, Jan 8, 2004 - 12:36 pm: Christine,A good way is to welcome all new horses with a towel at hand. Be it a newborn or a 15 yo champion, the procedure of introducing yourself and your demands is the same. It will only be (hopefully) faster with an older horse. |
Member: Tommygee |
Posted on Thursday, Jan 8, 2004 - 5:18 pm: You guys are great... so supportive & encouraging. Yep, you've pegged me ... I wanna know it ALL... YESTERDAY!!!!! You made me have a giggle Sharon when I read your opening response. I'm just burting at the seams with enthusiasm to the point where my head is spinning around.I'm not really one for New Years resolutions, but I'm giving myself one now ... Pull thy finger out, stop procrastinating & get to it!!! As far as riding lessons go, is there any particular type of instructor I should be looking for? ie: dressage or something. Thanks again... Oh, before I go... is everyone on here pretty much from the States as I'm from "Down Under" |
Member: Christos |
Posted on Thursday, Jan 8, 2004 - 5:37 pm: Yes, Christine, there is an ideal instructor.That's the one that'll keep you on the lounge line the longest. Save time there, and you'll have to come back later! All the best |
Member: Gillb |
Posted on Thursday, Jan 8, 2004 - 5:45 pm: Just start with the basics Christine, a good sympathetic instructor who encourages you as well as tells you where you are going wrong. You sound very enthusiastic which is great but try not to run before you can walk!! Once you are up to a reasonable level of competence then you can decide which branch of riding you want to try; western, dressage, jumping - the best thing is to have a go at everything, you will soon know what you and your horse have a preference for. Sometimes you may like one thing but your horse may be better at another, but I think it's good for a horse to have a varied all-round education.Best of luck! By the way I am from the UK. |
Member: Tommygee |
Posted on Friday, Jan 9, 2004 - 2:19 am: Christos, run that last one by me again. What are you trying to explain?? I missed it.Christine. |
Member: Roboski |
Posted on Friday, Jan 9, 2004 - 8:47 am: Hi, ChristineI guess we're from all over! I live in Central Florida. My first instructor was involved exclusively with showing and really wanted me to "build up" Magic's shoeing ; have you ever seen the "Big Lick" TWH's? Anyhow, he felt that if you show you really shouldn't do anything else and I like to be varied.My next teacher was also a gaited horse trainer and helped alot, but the gal who taught me to stay on my horse was my son's huntseat instructor! She professes no experience with Walkers but says "the most important thing is to keep the horse between you & the ground". So, you may go through a few teachers and activities before you find what you like best. I still show a little, love trailriding and fox hunting...a little jumping. Even been in a parade or two ( the cowboys call Magic that "prancy" horse).I get more confident and comfortable every year and you will too. Sounds like you have a great horse. Sharon |
Member: Christos |
Posted on Friday, Jan 9, 2004 - 8:58 am: Christine,The best riding lessons are on a lounge line with an experienced horse on one end and an experienced instructor on the other. It is generally believed to be a ridiculous beginner stage, but it is not. Riders of the High Schools often come back to loungeing in order to refine their tecnique. Think of it as intense private training. The more you get, the better for you. |
Member: Lhenning |
Posted on Friday, Jan 9, 2004 - 10:33 am: Christine,My instructor was also involved with showing. I didn't think I would be interested in going that route as I mainly trail ride, but I chose to take lessons from her anyway. It turned out to be a good choice. She taught me training on a basic level, with lots of lunging techniques. When I rode, she taught me about balance and collection. I still have a long way to go to really achieve those skills, but I have a good understanding of where my goals are. I highly recommend taking riding lessons on highly schooled horses. It is the best way to know the difference between where your horse is now and where you want him to be in the future. No matter what purpose you ride for, the same basic skills apply. I live in Wisconsin, USA. I think there are posts on here from all over the world. It does make one feel that horsemanship brings the whole world closer together, doesn't it? Linda |
Member: Tommygee |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 - 2:07 am: So basically I should take riding lessons on another horse that is experienced with an experienced instructor first & then as i learn the ropes... try it out on my boy.Is that pretty much the consensus? |
Member: Jojo15 |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 - 3:39 am: Well yes and no... I agree take lessons if you can afford it. Get a trainer to evaluate the horse, too. (maybe send off to a trainer for a week of intense evaluation) But that isn't the only way. I never really took lessons. Or had massive amounts of training. Or did any kind of Join up or followed any methods.. the horse is already trained why confuse him? Right now you just need to catch up to his ability.I bought my girl and new nothing and we settled in nicely and very slowly. I remember not riding her for the first months to get a feel for her. We bonded those first months, on the ground. But i also knew that she was well trained, not spooky, just a little on the spirited side, and was gentle and sweet disposition. At 10 she already knew it all and she taught me a few things...Hopefully your horse at 15 is the same. It might just be a matter of time for the both of you. Don't start rushing into different training methods before you truly understand and feel that is the best for you and horse. Nothing beats patience, timing, and consistency no matter what "method" you try. AND TRUST. I believe as a new owner your common sense will help give you the direction that you need to go in.(it will make you wary and force you to go slow) As long as the horse is well trained you can learn from each other. Listen to the horse. Then listen to your well intentioned friends after. joj |
Member: Christos |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 - 7:07 am: Christine, Joj,I believe that anybody interested in riding or horsemanship should invest some time in lessons before buying a horse. I'd think some 6 months daily lessons to be an average for somebody who has never been on a horse to gain the skills necessary to handle and ride a horse unsupervised. Joj, I have seen too many people struggling to work it out by themselves, and I ensure you that it will take you five years minimum to work out by yourself what you'll learn in six months lessons, no matter what the teaching method. |
Member: Jojo15 |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 - 1:43 pm: christ, Interesting thoughts. But, that wasn't the point.I agree people who have never ridden before usually don't go out and buy a horse. Most people who want to own are already in a situation where they know how to ride, know some basics and love horses enough to purchase. That is where christine and all of us started. And that is where my advice begins.... I took the comment "green to the equine world" as a new first time owner, not first time ever on a horse don't know anything. I remember thinking like Christine. I "attacked" every book. Went to sooo many clinics... In the end a simple conclusion. Trust. Trust yourself, Trust your horse. LISTEN to what the horse is telling you. And lessons, training, methods, books, don't really teach, they just talk. Sure they can add or detract from your goals. But, my message to christine is this. Take it slow. Trust your instincts, trust your horse. And don't jump to any "method". And quite honestly, working it out by themselves is not a bad thing. I guess it depends on how much of a hurry you are in. I found greater joy and accomplishment from figuring it out myself. And think i am a better horseperson because of it. Christine, if you have a specific goal, timeline, interest to show, or specific problems you can't solve, etc then by all means get help and instruction. Otherwise, just have fun. Don't frustrate yourself or your horse with added elements. jojo |
Member: Tommygee |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 - 6:01 pm: Jojo, Christos. I'll paint a clearer picture for you regarding me & horses.Grew up loving the look, smell & beauty of horses like all kids did, but i didnt have anything to do with them, knew no one that owned one even. Not until i was in my mid teens with a drivers licence did i take myself to places for the odd 1-2 hour trail ride. You could count the amount of times on one hand basically. Now in my late 30's, I was fortunate enough to find myself in a situation which would ultimately result in my owning a horse (Shad). Met up with a girl, started talking & it ended up that she had two endurance horses - one of which she did not have the time to work. Plan was to work him up to being a qualified endurance horse & sell him. Thats where i came into the picture. I was basically a parrot. Whatever she did (work,feed,train) with her mare, I just copied & did all the same things along side her with the gelding, Shad. As Shad was/is an even tempered fella, I didnt have much problems with him - any spooking or whatever, I just sat in the saddle, dealt with it calmly & plodded along. As i said, whatever my friend did I did without really knowing what i was doing & why. Anyway, Shad & I clicked virtually straight off. 3 months of parroting my friend with her mare, I successfully completed my first 40km endurance ride on Shad - of which i pretty much did by myself as Shad's extended trot covered more ground than the mare's, leaving me to ride solo. That was scarry because again I didnt know what i was suppose to be doing & again I just observed & copied other riders & did what i felt needed to be done so i would'nt kill both myself or Shad. As it turned out I must have been returning home to my partner beaming with excitement & full of stories after each intervention with Shad. This relationship we were building had put a zest for life in me that i didnt realise i had. Next thing I know, my partner secretly buys Shad off the girl for me as a SURPRISE Christmas present!!! And what a mixed surprise it was. On one hand I'm thinking "yee-ha great" because I love this horse to death & on the other hand I'm also thinking "what the hell am i going to do with a horse - my own horse?? Yes maybe I've been blessed with commonsense, sound temperement & not bad balance in the saddle ... BUT what do I know I know about the keeping or care of a horse?? That's a huge responsibility & committment that I'd never even pondered." So here we are today, the green but very proud owner of a 15h 15yr old pure bred Arab gelding that I absolutely adore!! Problem now is that the girl, my only horse person friend, has moved away leaving me somewhat lost for direction. After a bit of struggling, I'm now confident with his care (feed, worming, grooming etc). Now I'm ready to concentrate on the riding side of things. At this point in time, all I'm interested in is leisure trail riding of which I've recently become a member in a club. Thats a start at least. But before I start going on any rides, I'd like to learn how to communicate with Shad & learn to ride properly & safely. This brings me to why I'm looking for suggestions & opinions on how others first began their quest. Awfully long winded I know (does'nt help the fact I"ve just come off a 12hr night shift) - & there's another obstacle!... trying to get any sort of routine happening with forever changing shift work. That will do me now... I'm goin' to bed... I'm cactus. Christine |
Member: Kthorse |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 - 6:33 pm: Hi, I agree with Jojo.Yes instruction is needed but not to the the point of be all and end all. I am not the best for advise as I grew up on horses. I had lots of instruction however my best lessons were thru my horses. I know its a easier for kids thann adults as they dont have the fear we get when we are older.However They taught me more than any human. In my later years of riding I took up being instructed which totaly through me off. Telling me to do things that were totaly unnatural to me. Note this is not meant to tell you not to get instruction but to make sure the person really knows what they are teaching. Not all instruction is alike, or good. I have a girlfriend who has been riding through instruction for over 20 years. She looks wonderful on a horse however if that horse does something unexpected she is off his back in a second. You need to feel you horse and be as one. What is your horse temperment? Is he quiet enough for you to walk around on without a saddle or maybe you could get someone to put you on a lunge while you are bareback. Always remember the basics if they do something you dont want, make them do something they would rather not do. Anything you can think of thats gentle. Example if a horse tries to put his foot down while I am cleaning I keep tapping his foot with the pick till he stops moving. If he paws I grab the foot while in the air and hold it for a few minutes.He learns that that horrible noise from the tapping goes away when he is still or that if he paws he has to hold that foot up. Riding is the same. If they start to spook I back them up. Circling is another the list goes on. Read everything, learn everything try what makes sense to you and have fun you sound like you should have had horses all your life with all that enthusiasum. |
Member: Jojo15 |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 - 11:11 pm: Well, it doesn't seem like you are a novice to me...Also you're story is almost like mine... and you're horse sounds lovely.I remember in the begininng stupid little things i take for granted now would put me over the edge back then. Night riding was a big one... Even though i knew the horse could ride the night trails and roads, no one ever showed me. And I know its different. Because they see differently. What a dilemma it was that first night i had to ride home from a friends in the dark... Brandy must have felt my nervousness but as trust in our relationship was pretty high and i can't prove this comment-- but she did everything in her power to put me at ease. I remember thinking that she was teaching me how to ride that night. After that night I knew we could tackle pretty much everything. No one ever showed me how to handle rank dogs on the trail...Brandy made sure i stayed on while 4 dogs tried to surround us. And she was trying to fight them off while keeping me on... Or what about when my girl gets a pebble in her hoof while we are riding. No one is there to teach me how to see the signs that she is off just a hair. Just enough for me to get down and look. I mention these things because only time and patience and understanding from figuring it out yourself could have helped me in any of those situations. Good luck Christine you seem to be doing just fine. And bully to you in finding a partner who bought you such a wonderful present... jojo |
Member: Sefiroth |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 - 10:14 am: Christine,This has nothing to do with teaching, training or learning, just my own past experience with saddle clubs. I dont know where you are at or if yours is the same, but the one I joined was a waste of time. Here in good ol southern Illinois, saddle clubs are just an excuse to bring lots of people, horses and beer together along with a lot of stupid stunts. I went on 5 rides total, thinking every time maybe this one will be different. At every ride atleast ONE person got hurt if not five. At the end of one ride, someone deliberately spooked a horse that a father was riding with his 2 yr old daughter in the saddle infront of him. He lost control of the horse and had to bail off with his daughter. The run away horse went careening through the parking lot where all the horses were tied to trailers. It almost slammed my horse into the trailer. Two ambulances had to be called to the 5th ride I went on which is when I decided to cancel my membership. Now I just take nice relaxing rides with good friends I know and trust. Although there were some absolutely gorgeous trails that the saddle club used that I miss. Just my own experience. How well do you know the club you have joined? Sharon |
Member: Imogen |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 - 11:18 am: Maybe this isn't going to be helpful because of the big differences between the US and Europe but... we have what are called riding clubs here - originally an adult version of pony club, invented by the British Horse Society to teach riding and stable management and encourage good horsemanship. The system's slightly different but pretty much the same here in Ireland.This is where a lot of new horse owners can find help and advice. They run courses, clinics, local events (showjumping, dressage, cross country, endurance). The nice thing about going out with your club is you know even at an inter-club event that your pals are going to help you out, make sure you can load your horse afterwards, etc. etc. - also they have educational publications and you can take basic exams in stable management. Most clubs would have around 20-30 members with about 7-8 of those being active, the others maybe turn up once or twice a year. Most are based at a yard (boarding barn), usually one where teaching is available too, with a few members who keep their own horses at home but live in the local area. Personally, having ridden as a child and then had a long break from horses, I found that all the stuff I learned from pony club came back quite quickly but there were big gaps in my knowledge (must have been the stuff the adults did that I didn't notice!). So in addition to riding club, I did a BHS course in stable management to fill in some of the gaps though I didn't bother with doing the exams. Most equine studies colleges run basic horse ownership/stable management courses, and many are available as distance learning now. You can even do a degree in equine studies at Limerick University mainly by distance learning... I am always plugging the Horse and Hound magazine classifieds, I know, but these usually have 3-4 adverts for distance learning courses related to equine studies/stable management though of course they would relate to Britain and Ireland mainly. I feel sure there must be similar setups (clubs and courses) in the US. All the best Imogen |
Member: Christos |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 - 11:29 am: Christine,The picture you describe sounds as if a well trained horse has taken you through your first experiences, in an environment and with company he was very familiar with. A good start, indeed. You will now find a lot of information in the articles and forums of this site to help you through your next steps. There is also a wealth of specialised books on the market for any horse issue you feel like studuing a bit more. Yet, the benefits of professional training are impossible to match with do-it-yourself methods. Do get all the training you can, whether that is clinics in your area or just an experienced guy offering a couple of hints during a ride. You will ride, in the years to come, into incompetent professionals, know-it-all amateurs and beer oriented riding groups. Once in a blue moon, you'll be meeting the rare and endangered species "horseperson". Reach out, then, and let be lifted one step further. All the best for you and your new boy. |
Member: Sefiroth |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 - 12:13 pm: Imogen,Your club experience sounds wonderful. The one I had experience with is simply based on trail riding. Not much else went into it. They may hold the occasional steer roping contest but nothing too spectacular. Sharon |
Member: Kthorse |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 - 2:08 pm: They have similar clubs in Australia where I grew up. Every Sunday you would go. We could ride to ours as it was only half an hour away. There you would have lessons from 9 to 12.00 Once a month there would be a gymkana at one of the many pony clubs. They had basic riding competion, dressage, barrel racing, flagging , jumping you name it. Me and my sister entered every event we were very competative. My poor mum we dragged her to every event around. The clubs were for kids and adults with 50 to 100 members. Wish they had them here. |
Member: Tommygee |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 - 7:33 pm: Well knock me over with a feather... I managed to contact the girl that previously owned my boy Shad & arranged for her to pop down & show me some basic cues that Shad has already learnt.Now I feel somewhat more confident to begin my huge learning curve of riding. I even had her write down a plan of graduating exercises that covers about 9 weeks to get Shad back into condition that will ultimately have him fit & me more confident to then join in with the organised trail rides of the club I have joined. This is what I needed 'cause my head doesnt feel congested with confusion of where start & it feels like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. So I'll take it from here & just wait & see how things go. From listening to my farrier who's also in this trail riding club, it sounds to be pretty good. Yeah there are some larakins in the club but it also sounds as though "safety for horse & rider" is a high priority. Time will tell i suppose. Christos, I yearn to one day meet up with this "rare & endangered horseperson" - of which many years from now I would love to become. Thank-you everyone for your replies to my post. You'll be hearing from me again - no doubt! |