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Discussion on Breaking cross-ties
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Nadia F
Member
Username: Nadia
Post Number: 23
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 8:40 am: |   |
I have a TB (14 yrs old) gelding . He has been always been great at bridling. I could get it on in 10 seconds, always dropped his head so I could position the headstall and his mane and would let me even up the nose band piece, if needed. About 2 months ago, he suddenly started panicking when putting on his halter (spinning away, lifting his head up.) I am pretty sure he somehow caught his halter on something (the halter broke off at the hole in the buckle.) He has been extremely sensitive in his head area since. Bridling now takes 5-10 min. I can get his left ear on ok, but when I go to the other side to push his R ear forward, he starts panicking, walking around in circles, shaking his head to get the bridle off. The R side of the bridle is hanging over/near his R eye, so this may be a memory of whatever happened when he caught his halter. I generally have to just hold onto the reins and try to get his attention away from the hanging bridle, but this takes awhile. He has eventually dropped his head a little so I can finish, but the routine I not really getting any better. He has just started breaking the cross-ties when I am grooming him. He started backing away from me a few weeks ago when I would go to put the saddle pad on. This past weekend, he panicked and broke his halter because he wanted to get away from me.
I brough him back into the barn, lunged him in the arena for about 10 min, then put the saddle on. He did cooperate the 2nd time. I rode for about 20 min. I didn't want him to think he got away with me not riding. Last night, I had him in the aisle for grooming, I was brushing his mane, he suddenly panicked and broke the cross-ties. I brought him back into the barn and groomed again, he did ok. I hadn't planned on riding, my intention last night was to put his halter on and off, on and off, trying to get him to not panic with the halter, which I did. I think we made some progress - he was hardly raising his head when I put the headstall piece over his ears after a bit. (The people who turn him out in the morning said he is so anxious to get turned out in the morning, they have a problem getting the halter on, right ear side.) The bridle is going to be the next piece to work on, but I'm not sure how to do this. He takes the bit ok, and allows the L ear to go through, as soon as that is on, he panics - I can't see how to go slow. He panics as soon as the L ear is through.
1. Since my horse has no problem dropping his head to eat, etc., what has most likely happened to his head, neck and muscles from his halter episode? I don't really want to have xrays done, as I doubt if they would show anything. I am guessing he had some bruising up there. His sensitivity has decreased there, I think his reactions now are due to the memory of the episode and resulting pain. I have been massaging his head and neck, which I think has helped.
2. I don't think his backing away from me when I have the saddle pad is due to back pain, although I am not sure how to find out. The saddle and tack has all been checked and didn't find anything. Could his neck injury have caused him to compensate somewhere so that he does have back pain?
3. How do I get to unlearn that he can break the cross-ties? He had his halter on and the lead rope was still attached, laying on the ground. It happened so quick, I didn't have time to grab the rope. I was able to avert a similar situation about a year ago by grabbing it and he hadn't attempted to break and panic until this past weekend. I want to nip this behavior in the bud. Someone made the suggestion to bring him back in the barn and 'beat him', so he would learn to not break them again. I can't see that he would associate any punishment with that as it has already happened and some time has passed. I would rather fix this with trust and not physical punishment. I have no problem with giving him a slap on the hip if he seems to have an attitude.
I don't want him to think he can get away with this panic behavior. Any advice would be helpful!
Thank you. |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 467
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 10:19 am: | |
Do NOT beat him...it will only make it worse. If the people that turn him out for you are the ones that suggested beating him...this could definately be your problem here.
Will he tie without cross ties? If not, start there. If so, in the cross ties, try hooking one end, then looping the other so you can give if he panics. Sometimes all they need to know is that they can get away if they need to.
Start from the beginning. I hate to say this, but it sounds like you have a lot of groundwork to do to rebuild his trust.
I have a filly that didn't like her ears touched. We gave her a fly mask with ears to desensitize them, and then we used a halter that we could just pull over her ears (sort of like a bridle) She's fine now, but it took a while.
hth
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 267
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 11:14 am: | |
First of all, why is he turned out with a halter on? And, if he MUST have a halter, use a breakaway halter.
Next, either get someone out who knows how to do exploratory message, or the vet, or read up on how to do it yourself and really go over him, while he is being held, not tied, to see if he has any soreness, stiffness, bumps, etc. If he has a neck injury it very well could affect his back also.
I does need a lot of groundwork. I would start by just rubbing him softly all over with your hand, then a cloth, a soft brush or jelly scrubbie; then try with a soft rope, the loose end of the halter, etc. When he is comfortable with this, then try haltering him, but use a different halter-like a soft rope halter. Just put the halter on then take it off. Give praise and pats, and do it again-always slowly and backing off if need be to his comfort level and then starting over-as many times as it takes for him to be comfortable. I'd even try putting the halter on "wrong side out" so the fastner is on the opposite side as usual. Just little changes like that can make a difference.
When he is comfortable being haltered again, you can start putting him in the crossties, but again, treat him like it was his first time in them and go slowly, not even tying the leads at first. You'll have to do the same thing, I think with saddling. Best of luck. Have patience. |
Christine Holmes Bukowski
Member
Username: Canyon28
Post Number: 75
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 12:15 pm: | |
I would foget the cross ties and start over with his haltering training, but he may never get over it, horses are very forgiving, but they never forget. I have a stallion that cannot be cross tied, but he will stand all day with just single rope to the side of a trailer, etc. He was apparently beaten or left in the cross ties for long periods of time before I purchased him. I see no reason to cross tie a horse anyway. It is extremely dangerous , especially in a barn isle on a concrete floor. Never leave a horse tied on concrete unattended. My stallion flipped over two or three times in the the cross ties at a trainers barn when he was left unattended. finally he was stifled from this and can no longer be shown. I told the trainer at the time over and over to never cross tie him, but he would not listen, since he was a trainer, he thought he knew more than me about my horse. I dont use that person for a trainer any longer. I also have a mare that cannot be tied at all, but she will ground tie. She was tied ina shed while a young girl was trying to bathe her. She spooked and pulled a beam and the shed down on her and the child. Luckily neither was seriously hurt, but she can no longer be tied and will break away every time if tied. She seems to know if the rope is tied to something or not, and will stand quietly if it is just dropped on the ground or thrown over a rail. |
Christine Holmes Bukowski
Member
Username: Canyon28
Post Number: 76
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 12:18 pm: | |
A rancher friend of mine had a horse that had warts or something in his ears, we always had to unbuckle the headstall and buckle it around his head, not try to slip it on over his ears. He would not allow his ears to be touched. |
Holly Zukowski
Member
Username: Cowgrl
Post Number: 263
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 12:42 pm: | |
Holly Wood suggested using the Blocker Tie ring on another thread and it sounds like a good deal. The Blocker provides enough give that the horse realizes he is not tied fast and relaxes but still retains hold on the rope. They would be perfect for teaching him to stand tied again when the time comes.
My mustang had a major ear problem when I got him. From what I learned, nothing happened to him to make him so fearful of having his ears touched, just sensitive. To allow me to touch his ears and poll area, I spent weeks using pressure and release on that area. I would take him out to the round pen with just a halter and lead and bring my hand up to that area. He could move around all he wanted but I kept my hand there until he stopped resisting. Then I immediately removed my hand and turned away. I did this over and over gradually increasing the time I kept my hand there after he stopped trying to get away from it. Then I moved it to where I was holding his ear gently in my hand and did the same thing, pressure and release. After about 4 weeks he was allowing me to rub him all around and over his ears and just loves it. He finally realized that
1. I never hurt him.
2. I never got impatient.
3. This really feels good.
The most important thing here is to never get upset or impatient. Act like you have all the time in the world and it will pay off dividends.
And yes, never turn out with a halter unless it's a breakaway. It definitely sounds like he got hung up on his halter and hurt himself.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 10680
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 - 6:50 am: | |
Hello Nadia,
I agree that the horse got hung and in the insuing struggle has become frightened of the halter and pressure on the head. As long as there are no observable wounds, swelling, etc... I think you assume this is learned and there is no real pain associated with haltering.
I think there is a 2 step process here also:
1) Retraining the horse to be comfortable haltered.
2) Retraining the horse he cannot break the tie.
The haltering would be best done by positive reinforcement, Training Horses » Training Your Horse's Mind » Modifying a Horses Behavior: Conditioned Responses. The standing quietly in cross ties is a bit tougher to handle with positive reinforcement, but you may be able to design such a regimen. More traditional is having the horse demonstrate to itself that it is useless to struggle against them. See » Training Horses » Training Your Horse's Mind » Halter Training and Tying Horses for suggestions on ways to make this as safe as possible.
DrO |
Nadia F
Member
Username: Nadia
Post Number: 24
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 - 8:24 am: | |
Thank y'all for your suggestions. He does seem to be getting better. I can touch his ears/head most of the time, it is just that something seems to trigger the panic attack. I have been massaging the area everytime I visit and he definitely appreciates it. He will let me halter, but I notice that where the headstall is placed seems to affect his panic. Right behind his ears, is not good; a little farther back is ok. I'll have to read up on conditioning his behavior. |
Alden Chamberlain
Member
Username: Alden
Post Number: 106
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 25, 2004 - 1:06 pm: | |
I too do not like or see a need for cross ties, with training a horse will stand quietly just fine on one line. There have been fine suggestions here and sounds like your making progress. The only other thing I’ll add here is find the line between restrained and trapped.
Your horse knows where the line is and when he panics you’ve crossed the line. Use a long rope and let him move away from you if he needs to, just restrain him lightly. Then correct him (move him back to where you were) and begin the lesson again. You may have to start at the end of a 30’ rope if that is where his comfortable zone is, and then shorten the distance giving him the choice to either leave under resistance or stand still. By the way a device like the Blocker tie ring does a very good job of doing this when teaching or reteaching a horse to tie. Eventually he’ll choose standing still, but you’ll make much faster progress if you avoid his panic attacks. Good luck.
Good day,
Alden
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