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Laura Dwyer
Member
Username: Longhorn
Post Number: 23
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 18, 2004 - 6:22 pm: |   |
I've got a two boogers to which I'd like to desensitize my 10 and 11 year old QH geldings. One is the bug zapper in the barn and the other is to plastic grocery bags. Although one horse is more nervous than the other, these horses are pretty savvy and don't get too upset by much, diesel trucks, racing engines, dogs running about, chainsaws, weed eaters, etc. It's just these two things that seem to cause them the most aggravation.
I've read a lot of articles and watched videos on classic desensitization training using a whip or a wand with a flag or a bag on the end of it. I've also read tips about leaving offending items around their stalls until they become bored with them. Because of time and facility constraints (no round pen) and because of the current weather situation where I don't want my horses to run crazy for 1/2 hour in 100º heat, I would prefer the latter option and just expose them to the spooky situation around the barn or in their corrals until they're completely bored with the whole thing.
The plastic grocery bags are a common nuisance for everyone, I think. It seems to be mainly the crinkly noise they object to, not the actual sight of the bags. They'll pass up a bobbing plastic bag on the trail without a second look, but let one come near enough that they can hear it crackle and crinkle, and they're spooked. Obviously the same thing with the bug zapper. Sitting in the barn at night, it's nice to have that thing draw the flying bugs off. But we have an electric wire on the top slat of our fences and I know the horses are reacting to the "zap!" of the bug whacker as if they had just hit the fence.
Here's my question. Would continuously exposing them to these sights and sounds in the barn (which is also their eating area) cause ulcers, especially for the nervous one? If they appear to calm down, how would I know whether or not it's because of their desperation to eat and they're actually quite frayed by it all, or if it's because they're truly bored now and life can go on?
What made me think of this was an article I read by Karen E.N. Hayes, DVM, MS called "Wired for Sound." In the article, she had an insert entitled "The Sound of Music" and said that in some cases, constant music in your barn may calm your horses or it may upset them. Because it's more difficult for them to monitor and distinguish background noises for potential dangers, they may actually develop ulcers or "neurotic stable vices" with the music on. She recommended just watching your horse's reaction to the music over several weeks to see if it's calming or upsetting. It's not directly related to the desensitization thing, but it made me wonder about constant exposure to scary objects. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 10811
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 19, 2004 - 6:57 am: | |
Hello Laura,
Taking your questions in order:
Would continuously exposing them to these sights and sounds in the barn (which is also their eating area) cause ulcers, especially for the nervous one?
Unlikely, if done carefully there is no need to upset the horses.
If they appear to calm down, how would I know whether or not it's because of their desperation to eat and they're actually quite frayed by it all, or if it's because they're truly bored now and life can go on?
A desperate or frayed horse will not appear calm.
For some specific instructions on how to deal with this see, Training Horses » Training Your Horse's Mind » Modifying a Horses Behavior: Conditioned Responses.
DrO |
Sandra Ross
Member
Username: Sross
Post Number: 105
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 19, 2004 - 6:01 pm: | |
At the barn where my horse lives,
all the horses associate the rustling sound of plastic grocery bags with treats!
It's become one of their very favorite noises.  |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 484
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 19, 2004 - 6:15 pm: | |
Mine too! The five at my house are subject to deer, semis with jake brakes, motorcycles, tarps on top of trucks flapping fiercely, horns, bikes, not to mention ATV's, tractors,etc....I let the horses put their noses in the plastic bags (while I'm holding it) to get their treats. However, put up a stall guard and my normally Nothing-can-phase-me filly turns into a snorting beast 
I was cautioned about plastic bags a while ago...be careful -- Horses can suffocate just like we can.
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Laura Dwyer
Member
Username: Longhorn
Post Number: 24
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 19, 2004 - 11:55 pm: | |
You have no idea how I've tempted them. If you can imagine this: In the middle of an arena there is a plastic grocery bag tied to the top of an extended car antenna. The antenna is lodged inside a traffic cone with a carrot. The traffic cone is inside one of their 40 gallon rubber feed tanks which has hay in it. Boy, howdy, talk about being conflicted! They knew that carrot AND the hay was there, they could smell it. But every time they'd get a little close, the wind would puff up and the bag would flutter and rattle and they'd do an about face and trot off. Then they'd stand there and look at it, almost bored like, before they'd take one step nearer to it, then another, then stop and look at it, then look away, then it'd rattle and off they'd go. I finally managed to lead Strat up to it and get him to take one bite and got Bennie nearer where I fed him a handful of hay before I decided to give them a break. Next time, I'll have to separate them when I try it because Ben kept trying to "save" Strat from danger by scaring him away from it when Strat would get close. Bennie was scared to death of it, Strat had more guts (and appetite) to give it a go. But Bennie being The Defender Of Oppressed and Downtrodden Horses had to chase him off. Funny to watch.
I'll try bag-related-to-treat training next time and see how that works. Rattle the bag, feed a carrot, rattle the bag, feed a carrot... Repeat a thousand times. Then I'll try carrot in the bag, I double-dog dare ya. The wisest training axiom I ever heard was "throw away the watch" when you train. Of course, I could be standing holding the bag, if you will, all day with these numb nuts.
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Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 486
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 20, 2004 - 10:22 am: | |
 "But Bennie being The Defender Of Oppressed and Downtrodden Horses had to chase him off."
Your description is priceless!
Actually, what really worked for my horses is to hold the carrot with the bag around the carrot...not rattling yet. It gets them to sniff the bag. You actually don't rattle the bag at all for a while. Every day bring a bag with you full of carrots...If they want a carrot, they need to eat it out of the bag (with you holding the carrot up out of the bag for awhile). Once they have that down, just squeeze the bag with your hand, if they'll still eat out of it, then you can rattle the next day....baby steps.
This will take longer, but at least you won't "be standing holding the bag, if you will, all day with these numb nuts."
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Holly Zukowski
Member
Username: Cowgrl
Post Number: 298
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 20, 2004 - 1:47 pm: | |
I'm working with my horse right now to get him comfortable around rattly bags. I have one tied to his stall gate at the moment and he's getting pretty bored with the idea. Yesterday I had some corn husks in a plastic bag that I held out to him and he comes over and after a minute or two would snatch one out of the bag. When he realized he didn't fall over dead, he let me put the bag over his nose up to his eyes. It was pretty cute. He still doesn't like the noise but tonight I'll do a bag of carrots. If that doesn't get him, nothing will. Good thing he isn't the panicky sort. He's more of the "let's think about this for a minute. I'll let you know if it's something to spook at." My other horse is all over you trying to shove his head in any bag he sees. He's such a grub gut. He even stops hikers on the trail to see if they have treats for him. |
Laura Dwyer
Member
Username: Longhorn
Post Number: 25
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 20, 2004 - 10:58 pm: | |
Oh, good advice! My approach is sometimes too much "in your face" for the poor guys especially Bennie. I do need to take more baby steps. Thanks to you both, Aileen and Holly.
And thanks to Doc O for the answers to my questions. I won't fret so much about ulcerating the poor dears while I desensitize them to the deadly dangers of the killer grocery bags. |
Holly Zukowski
Member
Username: Cowgrl
Post Number: 300
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 21, 2004 - 10:01 am: | |
Dakota was so funny yesterday with the carrots in the bag. My other horse politely takes one and removes his nose from the bag to eat it but Dakota kept his face in until he fished all of them out. So there he is, bag up to his eyeballs with his lips hoovering up all the carrot pieces he could find. I'd say he's cured. |
