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Discussion on Horse fell down | |
Author | Message |
New Member: Cw24 |
Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 9:49 am: I'm looking for help training a three-year-old to make lead changes from the ground. I have been riding this colt for three months. He's always been strongly right handed and cross leads a lot when cantered. I was working him on leads, had been doing small sharp circles to force him to the left lead, had him on a straight line and apparently he tried to do a flying change back to right lead and made it only part way and lost his balance. My riding partner said he never unfolded his legs from the height of the gallop, but just pitched forward, did a headstand and crashed down on me. My helmet was cracked; I was unconcious for half an hour and wound up with broken sternum and ribs, which was nothing, considering how badly I could have been hurt.My vet wants tests for wobbles. The horse passes all the "at home" tests for wobbles, although he has always been clumsy and wears bell boots during riding to prevent scalped bulbs on his front feet. I suspect mild wobbles. I've tried working this colt in the round pen from the ground. I get him in a 12 foot circle and he's forced to take the correct lead, but the minute I let him out of the tight circle to reward him, he breaks to a trot and picks up the counter canter again. I will not get on him again until I have tests run, but am wondering if anyone else has worked with a horse so persistently awkward and what they did short of getting on him. I don't want to look at chiropractic until I have him tested for wobbles. Any suggestions, anyone? |
Member: Redmare |
Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 10:23 am: Hi Wanda-I see several issues here which, with attention, can fix your problem. First, your horse is only three years old. There is some debate, but basically it's agreed upon that horses grow and mature till 5+ years. At 3, your colt is like a gangly teenager and can't be expected to do advanced maneuvers like lead changes. If this were my horse I would be working on free lunging and ground driving. The ground driving can teach all the cues needed for riding without the horse having to balance a rider -- really gives you a head start. I see you're doing ground work, but round penning at the canter is hard on young legs and a 12' circle is just too small -- even high level dressage horses are only asked to work on an 20 meter circle which is 66 feet across, 33 feet radius (which is probably what you are referring to when you say 12'). Second, you say you've been riding the horse for three months and you're working on canter leads which, as you've learned, are a dangerous problem for this colt. Personally, I'd still be riding at the walk at this stage. There are about 800 things the horse can learn in the beginning stages of under saddle training that I want PERFECT before I move on: walking straight, bending circles, moving forehand, moving hindquarters, backing, taking one step at a time, giving to the bit... You are right to want a vet check just in case. If that is clear chiropractic wouldn't be a bad idea. A good chiro can point out a horse's imbalances and show you how to work with/around them. I think the main thing you need to do here is take a step back and reevaluate your training program. Often when things are going well we think we can go full speed ahead, and that's a dangerous assumption. I've had two bad concussions from horseback riding so I cringe when I hear about another's experience; I can feel the pain, nausea, and fear all over again. Take a big step back, and stay safe. |
Member: Ryle |
Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 10:26 am: Wanda,Yikes! I would say this definitely deserves a good neurological exam and if he fails that then testing to determine what is causing the neurological deficit. If you've never seen a full neurological exam, take a look at this website: https://www.tufts.edu/vet/sports/neuro1.html And I definitely wouldn't get back on him or try to really train him until you've had him examined and determined whether or not there is a problem. Cindy D. |
Member: Green007 |
Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 12:24 pm: Wanda,You are asking an awful lot of a 3 year old. I dont canter them at all until they are 4 and have yet to regret taking my time. Flying changes at any age should not be started until a horse is physically mature and solidly balanced in both leads. He should be able to do canter/walk and walk/canter transitions before being asked for changes in the air. If you continue to force the changes, you may teach him to change up front only which is very difficult to fix later on. It is good to have him checked by a vet but at his level of training, he may have just lost his balance. Any time you force a horse into a lead change without groundwork there is a loss of balance (otherwise it wouldn't be forced). Slow down the program, he needs some time to understand how to canter in a balanced rhythm for a while. |
Member: Deggert |
Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 1:00 pm: I agree with all, a good exam, but this may be way too much for him at this stage. Things they can do without a rider they are not able to do under saddle, just not strong enough yet. If they can't do it without a rider definitely not under saddle. I bet he is fine Wanda he may just be less mature than some and needs some strengthening exercises and slow work |
Member: Warwick |
Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 1:11 pm: Hi WandaOuch, it sounds like you had a really nasty accident. I hope you are back on the mend. While I think a physical exam is a good idea, I strongly echo Redmare and Debbie's words regarding training. Three year old horses are physically and mentally immature and I don't find it surprising that your colt can't do what you are asking. The fact that he tends to break into trot and then into counter canter when free lunged in the round pen would indicate that he's struggling with balance issues on his own, let alone under saddle - and certainly not uncommon in horses of his age. A lot of round pens that I've seen are too small in diameter and youngsters can't deal with the tightness of the circle. Three months of work on a 3 year old should be limited to short sessions of very basic work with the emphasis placed on forward, straightness and rhythm and nothing else - just positive and uncomplicated work. Correct flying changes require a finite degree of balance and timing. Asking an immature, uneducated and unbalanced youngster for this type of advanced work is counter-productive and unfair to the horse. I know every horse is an individual and should be treated as such but the basics of the correct training scale are universal. If I were you, I'd take a break to heal up and just give him time. Good luck with him and have fun. Working with young horses is a real mixture of challenges and rewards! |
Member: Cw24 |
Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 1:37 pm: Thanks to everyone for the answers. I'm sure all of you are right: I'm way ahead of his abilities and his age. Just to clarify, I have NOT been asking for flying changes, but only for correct leads, and have been trying to work him slowly. He does the flying changes on his own to get back to his preferred lead, and it only my suspicion that it is what he was doing when he fell. I, of course, do not remember anything of the accident or for several days around it. He does all the yields, can do shoulders in, haunches in, side pass, turns on the fore hand and on the haunches. All this was done as ground work before I ever got on. I've tried to do things slowly, with time for it to gel and not rush or alarm him. But as I said, I think everyone is right: I'm ahead of his abilities right now. He's so smart that he picks things up in an instant. I'm riding him with a halter. Right now I plan to let him sit over the winter and get the vet exam next summer.Thanks for the info on the neurological exam, Cynthia. I appreciate everything all of you said. |
Member: Green007 |
Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 1:56 pm: Heal yourself, wait for him to grow up a bit, and then try, try again.And don't forget to have fun! |
Member: Miamoo |
Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 1:58 pm: Hi Wanda,I agree with everything listed above. Do the exam, back off with this youngster, teach the canter leads from the ground first, it is safer. Once you get to the point where you have found no physical problems and you are ready to try cantering again, you might consider using long lines. Some horses are so adept at moving their hind ends out on the longe which makes it easy to either not take, or switch the leads. If you use long lines from the center - like a longe - you can use the outside line to keep his hind end in and his body bent in the direction you are going. Use light contact on the mouth from both sides as though you were mounted. I would do this for a good long time before I tried it mounted again. Ella |
Member: Christos |
Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 5:13 pm: Wanda,Your initial post is shocking! It is a good thing you decided to let him rest for the winter. He will need it to clear his head of all this unfair "training". If I may suggest so, use this time off to study a few training books. There's plenty of good stuff out there. All the best, Christos |
Member: Kthorse |
Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 10:01 pm: Well said,I started to post when I first read the post but deleted it as I did not have anything encouraging or nice to say. I did not want to appear mean. Sorry Katrina |
Member: Redmare |
Posted on Sunday, Sep 26, 2004 - 12:21 pm: Hi Wanda-Glad our advice was useful! Yikes, if you have memory loss it is a severe concussion. Take care of yourself and keep in touch with the doctor to ensure you are healing as you should. Your colt sounds like a smart kid and he'll do even better after a winter's rest. |
Member: Deggert |
Posted on Monday, Sep 27, 2004 - 1:14 pm: ChristosI was going to respond to your post then decided that would be acknowleding it, I do like to read your training posts as they are usually very informative. That said, my comment to you is: I hope no one has made a mistake or misjudged a training situation and posts it. If a person wants to be berated and feel stupid they can probably accomplish it without paying for it. All the best, Debbie |
Member: Hot2trot |
Posted on Monday, Sep 27, 2004 - 1:14 pm: Greetings, Wanda.I have to strongly agree with redmare when she recommends slowing down with your young horse. When I work with such a youngster (which I typically start under saddle just before they turn 4, to ensure that their backs are better developed) I only work walk and trot under saddle, and for no more than 20 minutes at a time, giving them WIDE berth. In my experience, a number of young horses have that "gangly teenager" problem, and, while perhaps not as severe as in your mount's case, it can cause a great deal of tripping, forgeing, etc. My advice to you is to work on lungeing and ground driving at the walk, trot, and canter with side reins to help develop self-carriage. With the rider on board, stick to simple tasks (e.g. walking and trotting) until the horse has acquired the balance necessary to work on canter, which takes more balance to accomplish successfully. On a side note, it's often tempting when working with an intelligent horse to want to push them on to the next level of training before they've perfected the first. I myself have been guilty of this error, and have suffered in much the same way as yourself: with a concussion, ripped hip flexor, etc. I have since learned that for the young horse, training should be fun and positive, with NO pressure involved. If the horse is seriously struggling with something, back up and focus once again on previous lessons. The horse is often simply not ready for the step you're attempting. As I'm sure you're aware, horses have as distinct personalities as their human counterparts. Some horses mature both physically and emotionally slower than other horses. My Hungarian Warmblood mare was certainly that way. Her training had to be done in "baby steps," as she'd begin to SERIOUSLY act up whenever she felt stressed. Having a keen awareness of your horse's physical, mental,and emotional status is as invaluable a tool in training as anything else I can think of. Best of Luck, Dawn |
Member: Christos |
Posted on Thursday, Sep 30, 2004 - 5:24 pm: Hi, Debbie,You are right I think, my reply to Wanda is inadvertedly offencive and incomplete. I meant to say that Wanda's training approach is totally wrong, and the fact that she is looking at the horse's health to find an explanation for what happened, means, simply, that she's in great danger. There are so many serious faults in her two posts that it would take us a week to comment on them, that is why I suggested restudying the whole subject from scratch and making a fresh start in a few months. Now I understand how Wanda feels. I've been there many times, believe me, and it is not pleasant. I have tried forcing a horse beyond my abilities many times, and I have learned that it does not work in many hard ways. And I wish there was somebody out there to tell me how stupid I was in my first attempts. It would have saved me risking my life several times over, and it would have gained me years of enjoyment instead of torture, for me and the horses alike. Would I have paid for it? You bet! All the best, Christos |
Member: Hot2trot |
Posted on Friday, Oct 1, 2004 - 12:42 pm: I have to agree with Christos as well. Sometimes the truth of our actions isn't terribly pleasant, but it's essential that we're confronted with them to avoid making egregious mistakes in the future. So he's not one to mince words? I have to respect that feature in a person. There are far too many people on this planet that strive to dance around the issue so as not to hurt feelings. Unfortunately, sometimes hurt feelings will motivate one to change one's course. I certainly haven't given up or cried over the way my German trainers handled my mistakes. While often frustrating, their brutality taught me some valuable lessons. One just has to develop a thick skin and determine what the underlying message is. |
Member: Deggert |
Posted on Friday, Oct 1, 2004 - 1:35 pm: Dawn,I agree too, and if Christos or anyone else was face to face with Wanda this would probably come over just fine. But, since this is the written word we cannot put the intonations that can help deliver the message and we don't want to discourage people from posting. I have thought many a time about posting a question and didn't. It is difficult to give the whole story without writing a book (which I have many times when posting) but in difficult situations you know there are other people out there that have had this problem or situation and you are desperate to find resolution. I think to keep people posting without alienating them is the goal and offering constructive criticism is great. |