Use the navigation bar above to access articles and more discussions on this topic.
| Author |
Message |
    
Gwen Robison
Member
Username: gwen
Post Number: 571
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Oct 28, 2007 - 8:39 pm: |   |
So my new tb continues to exceed all of my expectations. He is a wonderful horse. Under saddle, we have reached a fun milestone. He has gone from hating any bit contact, to reaching into the reins. 
I am NOT complaining, but had a really hard time keeping my body steady today when trotting. He has a natural tendency to be bouncy in the trot, and today it was just huge. It feels neat, compared to the jog of my qh! It was really hard though, to keep his rhythm consistent. He has been pretty pokey up until today (I am wondering if the "cool calories" I just started have affected him). This part is kind of just a vent. HOWEVER, I was curious about what piece of their conformation makes them soo bouncy. I am confident that SOMEONE on this website will know the answer. THANKS!! |
Dennis Taylor
Member
Username: dtranch
Post Number: 553
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 8:25 am: | |
Gwen .. Make sure you are getting him collected and working off the rear at the trot. When they reach into the bit, sometimes they are getting too much on the fore. I work a lot of backing exercises to get them collected. Try to lightly pull in the reins and feel the weight shift to rear before asking for the trot transition. You should feel a smoother trot immediately, but will have to practice at it to maintain.
DT |
Terri
Member
Username: terrilyn
Post Number: 563
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 8:51 am: | |
Long legs, bigger stride, just a "different ride" than a QH. I am dealing with the same learning process myself.... I notice that it takes quite a bit more physical work to ride this horse than a more compact QH. I'm taking lessons from a hunter instructor, who laughs every time I go to slow my big guy down (I get so exhausted physically) to take a breath. A working hunter trot is worlds away from a western pleasure jog. You're working alright... |
Aileen
Member
Username: sunny66
Post Number: 2006
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 10:31 am: | |
I struggle with this too. I'm told it's all me ... LOL... In addition to Dennis' comments, I've also been told to do transitions within the gait. So a slow trot, ask for a bigger trot, slow trot, bigger trot... all the while keeping your core centered with a relaxed back to absorb the impact -- unless of course you're posting which then you just post slower and faster -- to help get his hind end underneath you... easy to say, not so easy to do  The goal is to feel his hind hooves in your hands ... I've felt it once and it's a great feeling... once you've felt this you'll also feel that he will give you a place to sit! If I'm misleading, I hope someone will correct me
I'm very glad you're so happy with your new boy |
Gwen Robison
Member
Username: gwen
Post Number: 573
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 12:21 pm: | |
Hmmmm. That makes sense. I do wonder if he is getting strung out. He was REAAALLLY forward again today. I was trying so hard to sit up with the downward press and getting heavy in my elbows to ask him to slow. A few things weren't great:
*he would slow nicely for me, but then would resume same super speed
*he ended up with his head in the air and not reaching out and down
I ended up just grabbing mane and letting him cruise, and somehow created a nice forward gait that was pretty manageable! Any thoughts on the drawbacks of my half-halts would be appreciated! |
Alicia Moore
Member
Username: aannk
Post Number: 775
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 12:35 pm: | |
Gwen,
Half halts are not done with the rein. They are done with body position. You should post slower than he is going. You need to set the pace. It requires strong core body muscles. IT is also akward feeling. It will work, but will take time.
Good luck,
Alicia |
Gwen Robison
Member
Username: gwen
Post Number: 574
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 1:13 pm: | |
I thought Alicia, that it was a combination of all aides creating a half-halt...
The slow posting piece I absolutely get-I just can't make my body do it!! |
Alicia Moore
Member
Username: aannk
Post Number: 776
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 1:38 pm: | |
Gwen,
From your post, it appeared to me you were just using your reins.
If I can remember right, when I half halt (well when I do it the way my instructor tells me to) at the trot to create a slower pace, I do the following in order of importance and in time order.
1) Check to make sure I am not leaning forward
2) Make sure my lower leg is not gripping
3) Balance myself a little more with my upper thighs
4) Let the horse "bump" me on each side of the post, in other words, when you are supposed to go up, you kinda wait until the saddle hits your bum, then you kinda hold yourself up a little longer than the horse wants you to, you are right, this is VERY hard. I have been trying to do this consistantly for about 5 years now.
5) Ask the horse to go forward, yes forward, into a consistant rein contact
When they are running around with their heads up in the air, I find the only thing that really works is what I mentioned. When they are lugging on the bit, however, you need leg first.
Alicia |
Ann
Member
Username: dres
Post Number: 1561
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 1:41 pm: | |
''What makes a bouncy trot'' well confirmation can make for one, the length of the pasterns/ short or long ?
Some horses just have to much suspension for some riders and it makes for a difficult union .. That being said don't try to sit his trot more then a few strides at a time.. once you feel out of the rhythm go back to posting and regain your balance and the horse's.. I tell my grand kids to sit 5 strides post 5 strides / sit 5 strides post 5 strides.. sometimes not thinking about it but thinking about the count will relax your seat and back as well.. * its worth a try *
Getting your horses to be honestly in front of you leg and lifted thru his back is key in sitting a comfortable trot..
have fun.. This isn't learned quickly..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots. |
Elizabeth Kaufman
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 138
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 2:05 pm: | |
Horses have different ways of going. Level of fitness and training (horse and rider) also make a big difference.
One great trick to learn to post with body control are the following exercises--
1) Post the walk. Yup-- it's hard because the horse isn't helping (mine find it funny), but it will force the issue of your own body control, and help you develop the strength not to plop into the saddle.
2) At the trot, mix it up: post 2 up and 1 down; 3 up and 1 down, etc.. Same deal only it works your timing as well as control.
A week or two of this, and a normal posting trot is very easy, and you will have the body control to slow or speed your posting to cue the horse. |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: vickiann
Post Number: 545
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 5:17 pm: | |
A bouncy trot can be a beautiful thing. Experiment with speed control to see what works for a given situation. If a horse has a long, forward, natural stride, he will be bouncy if you shorten his stride. As stated previously, the horse's condition is important to controlling the stride and smoothing it out. Usually, you can find a speed that helps to make the way of going smoother. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3272
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 6:09 pm: | |
I prefer "bouncy" as it gives you a boost when you post and the posting just becomes automatic with no work involved. I have to work to post on a really smooth horse (maybe that's just me, tho') As someone else pointed out earlier, it's a big switch from TB to QH. TBs are as a rule much bigger movers. It's difficult enough, imo, to switch horses within a breed, and takes a bit to get used to a different way of moving. From breed to breed it take that much more to get used to the differences. Hah! You should have seen all of us trying to adjust to Ilona's gaited horses in New Mexico! |
Gwen Robison
Member
Username: gwen
Post Number: 575
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 6:42 pm: | |
AWESOME ideas everyone. Thanks so much. |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 1248
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 7:59 pm: | |
Gwen, everyone has given you great info. I'll say again that a big trot is much easier to ride when the horse is round and connected. When that happens and you get that big, lovely trot...you will feel like his feet are not even touching the ground and you both have sprouted wings! You will love it. Enjoy! |
Elizabeth Kaufman
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 139
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 8:04 pm: | |
Be careful Sara about letting the horse boost you on the trot-- if you think about how posting works, that approach makes you late on your rise.... |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3273
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 10:58 pm: | |
Perhaps "boost" isn't the right word. I just find it much easier to post on a "bouncy" or stronger trotting horse - it feels more natural to me. |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 585
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 11:06 pm: | |
It could be the difference in the type of horses you are used to riding.
Compared to the easy jog of msot qh a powerful tb would feel very different.
However, I just happened to read about the trot in a book by Ingrid Klimke.
She talked about how a stiff or poorly muscled back can cause a rough trot. Of course, the book took a page or so to say this.
The condensed version is use circles to slow the trot. Use serpentines and ground poles to build strength and suppleness.
Every time the trot gets rough, heavy on the front or feels like the front legs are pounding go back to circles.
After several weeks raise the poles to low caveletti.
Another thing that will cause a rough trot is nervousness in the horse.
This is not necessarily that the horse is high strung, he just might not understand what is required of him so in his eagerness to please he pounds away.
This was actually the case with my mare, when I got her she was sooo rough, a great bouncy trot that would churn butter. |
Gwen Robison
Member
Username: gwen
Post Number: 576
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 7:57 am: | |
Good points Lori. I think nervousness may have something to do with it. However, when he does begin to reach through his back, the trot changes its rhythm (I think that is what I mean) but still takes me so far. I can't believe how sore I am. My ankle, which has screws in it from an accident ten years ago, is barely movable right now. This horse makes me feel so old! It is definitely invigorating compared to my qh. |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: vickiann
Post Number: 546
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 10:57 am: | |
To me stiff and bouncy are two totally different things, and have owned horses with each way of going. What Fran says is exactly true for when you take the bouncy to collection. My bouncy Arab glides and flies for me. It is heaven and we truly become as one. And he IS easy to post on. His normal stride is huge -- should have been a race horse. Lori is right on about the conditioning and strengthening. This is very important. Without a good level of fitness, it is hard for a horse to smooth out at either a faster or slower speed than his/her normal way of going. Gwen, it sounds like this horse will make you a better rider. The bouncier (OR rougher) the ride, the more you must relax and go with rather than against the horse's motion. |
Aileen
Member
Username: sunny66
Post Number: 2009
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 11:01 am: | |
Ouch Gwen! I wonder if lunging him a bit would help at all? Maybe a longer walk warm up? I have no idea, just thoughts...
Elizabeth, could you go a little more in depth in posting the walk? I'd like to do this but I can't quite figure the muscles to use... I think our thighs are supposed to be open at all times to give us the secure seat, so would it be just the core? I just don't know enough, please enlighten me! |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3275
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 11:34 am: | |
Gwen, I feel your pain!...did your ortho surgeon ever suggest that you have the screws taken out of your ankle? I've complained to my surgeon about my ankle swelling and really hurting after riding, esp. after posting a lot, and he told me I should have the screws taken out. (I have a plate and seven screws.) I'm trying to decide if I want to do this or not. |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 586
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 11:41 am: | |
Elizabeth, good ideas for developing the post. I have posted the walk, mainly to train myself how to post at the trot correctly.
Have you ever heard of posting the canter?
Charles de Kunfy offers this about half halts, The seat should continue to follow as you are not asking for a full halt. The torso and arm resist the following action briefly.
To teach the horse this may have to be exagerated a couple of times then minimized to give the horse an oportunity to respond to the lighter aid.
The rein is a guide and should never be used alone without other aids. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3276
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 11:42 am: | |
Elizabeth - great ideas for exercises! I'm going to try the sitting two, posting one etc. (Can you actually walk after you've done these exercises?)
Re: loose thighs - I was taught to stretch my thighs down, which tightens them against the saddle, and to keep my lower legs relaxed; to balance my seat like a beach ball balancing which moves with the horse and is separate from what the legs do. I can see with jumping you'd want more leg grip (I assume; I don't jump although I've spent a lot of time around people that do.) But for flat work is the above correct or does it depend entirely on the style of riding? |
Alicia Moore
Member
Username: aannk
Post Number: 779
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 12:51 pm: | |
You should allow your thigh to drape down, not force them down. Lower leg should also drape around the horse, not hang loose. You don't need any more leg grip jumping, if you do grip, your leg will slide back. You just have to allow your joints to bend and aborb impact. That is why I ride with the flexible stirrups, made a big difference in the impact on my ankles.
Your legs basically just stabilize your position on the horse, and of course aid the horse when necessary. They should not actively press unless they are being used as an aid.
Alicia |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 1249
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 12:53 pm: | |
Sara, you do want to stretch your thighs down, but without tightening or squeezing - try to stretch them down from the hip without adding tension to them (so easy to say...so hard to do!). I've been told to think of it as pointing your knee down and I've been told to think of your legs as wet blankets, draped over the horse, in contact with the horse, but without pinching anywhere.
Sometimes, those images work better for me to remember to ride correctly. I have a tendancy to squeeze too much with my upper leg and it pushes me out of the saddle. Also, my mare is pretty sensitive and when I squeeze too much with upper leg, she slows down, so I give her a nudge with the lower leg - totally sending the poor thing mixed signals! |
Elizabeth Kaufman
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 140
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 1:59 pm: | |
Hey all,
Don't sit two-- rise two and sit one. The rising phase of the trot is the one to work on (since the "sit" phase isn't a true sit anyhow). I would worry that sitting two/rising one would make the horse sore and disrupt the trot rhythm.
Yes, I have posted the canter. It's a great exercise for developing the medium canter on less than forward horses, or ones that have trouble maintaining a rhythm. You guys can probably tell that I rode with a sadistic trainer :-)
Posting the walk is just like posting the trot, only the horse isn't helping you generate impulsion, and obviously the gait pattern makes everything harder. But it can help develop strength and organization for the faster gaits. It also can allow you to PUT YOUR HANDS ON YOUR THIGHS and make 100% sure that you are not balancing on the reins to get out of the saddle. Make sure that you don't grip with your knee or lock your ankle-- your weight is going into the ball of your foot.
And yup-- you might be just slightly tired. Who needs to walk when we have horses to ride! |
Terri
Member
Username: terrilyn
Post Number: 564
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 2:32 pm: | |
For imagery on every aspect of your seat, there's no finer resource than Sally Swift's "Centered Riding." Most people read steamy romances while on vacation. Not me. I sat at the ocean's edge with an old dog-eared copy of that classic and tried to memorize it... |
Gwen Robison
Member
Username: gwen
Post Number: 577
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 6:27 pm: | |
This place is such a wealth knowledge! Interesting about taking the screws out. I might look into that! I actually had to put an ace bandage on today because my ankle was so sore. I have the jointed stirrups, and I have never been this affected before-even when I was jumping.
I do have to strengthen, and at the same time make fluid, my body. Great exercise ideas everyone. Elizabeth, the posting exercises sound great.
I will also dig out and dust off my Sally Swift book.
I actually feel good about my riding, as compared to how I was riding with my qh. I was so crooked and (I know this will probably make you all say "jackpot") stiff on my qh. I feel like the "muscle memory" from my college riding days is coming back to me. He is going to be a blast to work with. My trainer already says how fun he is because he is so kind and smart. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3277
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 7:48 pm: | |
Gwen, my surgeon said that most if not all of the pain in my ankle comes from the screws and that once the ankle is healed, in my case it's been over a year, the screws are no longer needed. So, do check with your ortho guy. I'm trying to find the time to be out of commission for a few days so I can have mine out. My ankle kills me now.
Terri, I love Sally Swifts books and videos! I evidently need to review them as it's been a few years since reading/watching.
Mostly, I need to ride more than I do. I have excellent balance, but zip endurance in the legs. After a few long classes my knees (both repaired) and ankle are screaming, along with my leg muscles. Trail riding is no problem as I either ride with a long stirrup or no stirrups.
Fran and Elizabeth - maybe you two could come out with Dennis and give me lessons while he works with the horses!
Ahhhh...if only I could ride like I did when I was young (and had nothing else that had to be done! |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 1250
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2007 - 7:28 am: | |
 Sara, I'm the last person qualified to give anyone lessons. I have tons of knowledge in my head but have a very hard time putting it to practical use for myself, never mind anyone else! (But of course, that doesn't prevent me from trying to help here on HA). If only I could take everything I've read, everything my trainer has told me, everything I've learned from clinics and everything I've observed from much better riders...and actually do it. Sigh, but that would take the challenge out of riding well, wouldn't it...and where's the fun in that? |
Terri
Member
Username: terrilyn
Post Number: 565
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2007 - 8:50 am: | |
If any of you are in VA, Wendy Murdoch is giving a clinic in Williamsburg on December 1! This is such a great opportunity and will address exactly the issues discussed here. I can only be there for one day and have signed up for a semi-private session. I am PSYCHED. Her book, Simplify Your Riding, has been a tremendous help and takes Sally Swift's principles one step further. Hoping I come away from there with an improved understanding of balance, seat, the synergy between horse and rider...I understand her teaching is phenomenal. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3280
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2007 - 10:01 am: | |
Fran, you and me both! We'd be in the Olympics! |
Aileen
Member
Username: sunny66
Post Number: 2011
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2007 - 10:24 am: | |
Thank you Gwen for this thread, and thank you Elizabeth for the information on posting the walk and to everyone else for making me think and visualize better |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 588
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2007 - 11:13 am: | |
I am trying the posting exercises mentioned.
How and why would you post the canter?
I am trying to improve my two point position so I'm thinking these exercises will help. |
Gwen Robison
Member
Username: gwen
Post Number: 578
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2007 - 12:22 pm: | |
Have you guys seen the "igallop" from Brookstone? I wonder if that would make me a stronger rider, as the company claims... I am going to grab that book by Wendy Murdock. That sounds great! |
Ann
Member
Username: dres
Post Number: 1564
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2007 - 12:48 pm: | |
Posting the canter will help improve your balance and give the horse freedom to improve as well...I will post the canter on my newly started young horses for bit.. It also helps a novice rider get the feel of the articulation of the head in the canter as well.. It can help in leg position too ..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.. |
LL
Member
Username: frances
Post Number: 534
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 1, 2007 - 8:23 am: | |
Ann, do you think posting the canter is more beneficial than cantering in forward position, in terms of freeing up the horse's back, etc? |
Elizabeth Kaufman
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 142
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 1, 2007 - 2:08 pm: | |
Posting the canter is more effective at developing rhythm in a horse that may need that help. I use it for that, and also to help more advanced horses learn the difference between medium, extended, collected canter. The posting works like a metronome.
Also, on a big-moving horse, it is really really fun! |
Lilo
Member
Username: lilo
Post Number: 654
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 1, 2007 - 4:49 pm: | |
I am just having such a hard time visualizing "posting the canter". I would have to watch someone do it (or see a video).
This is an interesting discussion.
Lilo |
LL
Member
Username: frances
Post Number: 536
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 2, 2007 - 10:56 am: | |
I agree, Lilo. Anyone want to have herself videoed posting the canter for our edification?! |
Elizabeth Kaufman
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 145
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 2, 2007 - 3:43 pm: | |
I ride alone (except the horse) but will try to get this done next time I have a visitor. But you can also just give it a try-- rise on the inside hind lifting (is this how you do it Ann?), and expect it to be a big swing. Fun! It's easy to tell when you have it right. |
LL
Member
Username: frances
Post Number: 537
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 3, 2007 - 10:39 am: | |
|
