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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20077
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 - 7:35 am: |   |
Imagine this conversation in the paddock while Queeny is being trained by Mr. Whisper, often referred to by the horses as "Pesky". King turns to Jacky and says, "Yeah, Queeny thinks Pesky is great, but what the heck does she know?" Jacky replies, "I don't know...she eats my hay, she must know something."
Here is a fascinating study that suggests that your interactions with other horses will effect interactions with a horse. The conclusion is to make training easier you should line up your horses in paddocks so they can watch you train. Then start your training day with the most dominant horse and work your way down the hierarchy!
DrO
Anim Cogn. 2008 Jan 9;
Horse sense: social status of horses (Equus caballus) affects their likelihood of copying other horses' behavior.
Krueger K, Heinze J.
University of Regensburg, Biologie I, Universitatsstrasse 31, 93053, Regensburg, Germany, Konstanze.Krueger@biologie.uni-regensburg.de.
Animals that live in stable social groups need to gather information on their own relative position in the group's social hierarchy, by either directly threatening or by challenging others, or indirectly and in a less perilous manner , by observing interactions among others. Indirect inference of dominance relationships has previously been reported from primates, rats, birds, and fish. Here, we show that domestic horses, Equus caballus, are similarly capable of social cognition. Taking advantage of a specific "following behavior" that horses show towards humans in a riding arena, we investigated whether bystander horses adjust their response to an experimenter according to the observed interaction and their own dominance relationship with the horse whose reaction to the experimenter they had observed before. Horses copied the "following behavior" towards an experimenter after watching a dominant horse following but did not follow after observing a subordinate horse or a horse from another social group doing so. The "following behavior," which horses show towards an experimenter, therefore appears to be affected by the demonstrator's behavior and social status relative to the observer.
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Gwen Robison
Member
Username: gwen
Post Number: 652
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 - 1:12 pm: | |
Wow, that is pretty fascinating! |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 827
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 - 10:30 pm: | |
That is a very interesting observation. It is kinda strange in my dog world, but when I do a group lesson, I always pick the most obnoxious dominant dog first to work with. Just my own choice, but it does make the rest of the session go more smoothly. I wonder . . . . . . . . |
Cynthia G
Member
Username: cgby1
Post Number: 209
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 2:06 pm: | |
Very interesting, I have a coming three year old filly. I usually leave her in her stall while my trainer and I work with my other two horses. After this I think that I will let her watch the lessons!
Cynthia |
Muffi Delaney
Member
Username: muffi
Post Number: 217
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 6:24 pm: | |
WOW - I actually did something correct! I always work my Dominant horse first - take him riding or in hand in full view of the subordinant one. I did that because he was the Bossy one and I felt he needed to be made tired first. it always seemed to be followed by a Smart Horse (horse #2 Is just as smart as Horse #1 mind you)but the second horse seemed to catch on faster and be more obedient. Hmmm the proof of the puddin in my pasture. thanks Dr O love the little gems like that. |
Erika L
Member
Username: erika
Post Number: 1148
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 6:54 pm: | |
Fantastic article, Dr. O. |
Linda Lashley
Member
Username: lhenning
Post Number: 328
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 10:17 am: | |
I can attest to this first hand. Last summer, the boarding barn had a very pushy, dominant horse with little training in the pasture with six other geldings. He was the obvious leader. When I would go to bring my horse in from pasture, the pushy guy always tried to push his way in the door. The other horses bunched up ready to explode inside behind him.
I started using dominating gestures toward the pushy guy out in the pasture. I always approached him first, always made him move out of my way, and always stood my ground. At the door, Mr. Pushy quit trying to get past me. I soon noticed the other horses moving out of my way with a small wave of my hand. My own horse, who is near the bottom end of the pecking order, had a marked change in his behavior when I lead him past the dominant horse. He no longer reacted to Mr. Pushy, but walked quietly along with me.
Linda |
Ann
Member
Username: dres
Post Number: 1701
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 10:40 am: | |
This idea works with dogs too.. I always get a puppy before the old dog is done.. as the older one teaches the new pup right and wrong place to poop.. teaches the pup we are not allowed to go out of the gate EVER.. teaches the pup patience.. I have not had to train or scold a pup in years.. the old dog does it for me..!~
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.. |
Dorothea D. Linklater
Member
Username: deedles5
Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 12:26 pm: | |
I clicker train my horse, an 8 yr old gelding, not particularly dominant. He is pastured with a retired 14 yr old dominant mare. When I am clicker training him, she is fascinated and watches attentively. The first thing I teach is "turn your head" so that they are polite and not pushy. They were standing with their heads over the fence, I approached with a treat, said "turn your head" and they both turned their heads, simultaneously, in opposite directions.
I thought it was completely hilarious.
They certainly learn by watching! |
Debra S. Fairbanks
New Member
Username: wiggly
Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 2:09 pm: | |
Wow, I never taught my horses to turn their heads, but a couple of them do when I bring their food up and tell them to back off. I was thinking they were not complying because they didn't back UP. Now I see they were minding their manners in their own horsey way. |
kbrooks
Member
Username: kamibroo
Post Number: 43
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 4:35 pm: | |
I've been doing this for years. I let the young ones loose to watch everything before its their turn. Usually they have a "oh, me too, me too" attitude by the time its their turn. Other people said I was crazy thinking that it made a difference and said I was just lucky to have nice horses.
One filly was watching as I showered everyone else with the hose one day until she couldn't stand it and shoved in to be next in line. When her turn was done, she still hung around to be squirted.
They always get to watch the farrier do all their friends first. Makes for some very interesting looks as they twist their head around to see exactly what's going on. Then when its their turn, they've never been a problem (well, until it gets boring and they want to go back to play)
I also clicker train and always let the newbie loose to watch a session with a more experienced horse. With the exception of one horse, all have jumped right in to give it a try.
In my experience, the reverse of this is also true. If you let them watch an obstinante horse or a refusing horse, they will also try the same tricks or take the "not me either!" attitude. |
