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Discussion on Using clicker training for problem loaders | |
Author | Message |
Member: chrism |
Posted on Friday, Jan 30, 2009 - 8:56 pm: This is a published study of how using clicker training for problem loaders. I thought it was very interesting and seems to be well done.https://seab.envmed.rochester.edu/jaba/articles/2001/jaba-34-04-0409.pdf |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 9:12 am: A very informative article Chris.DrO |
Member: erika |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 10:17 am: What a wonderful article. Thanks for posting it, Chris!Erika |
Member: warthog |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 11:06 am: clicker training is amazing. a very powerful tool for specific problems and also brings about a big attitude change in a "sour" horse because finally the horse "knows" when it is doing the "right thing". we even use it from the saddle and it was very helpful in teaching "whoa" in a horse who wanted to keep going fast all the time. ONce they understood the cue and the realized they got a reward, no more going fast unless it was asked for.I can't recommend this technique more highly. It is easy to teach, does NOT create a "mugger" because you only reward for a REQUESTED behavior and you ask for a sequence of behaviors before actually giving the real treat. so you can click multiple times and then treat if it's a situation where you're in motion and don't want to stop. |
Member: chrism |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 11:20 am: BTW, I got wind of the study while reading Temple Grandin's latest book, Animals Make Us Human and googled for it.I found the book, like her others, to be very thought provoking. I like that it has species specific chapters (dog, horse, cat, etc.) Here is a link with more details: https://www.amazon.com/Animals-Make-Us-Human-Creating/dp/0151014892/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233418647&sr=8-1 |
Member: chrism |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 11:23 am: This link might be "hot":https://www.amazon.com/Animals-Make-Us-Human-Creating/dp/0151014892/ref=pd_bbs_sr _1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233418647&sr=8-1 |
Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 11:47 am: Chris,I've Read "Animals in Translation" and wonder if you read it also? If so, before I go off and buy YET ANOTHER BOOK, how much is new in the latest book? Temple Grandin is fascinating! Every person who owns any animal should read her works. |
Member: chrism |
Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 9:56 pm: I've read all of Temple Grandin's books. I think Animals in Translation is different enough that you'd enjoy the new one. I borrowed it from my local library, so the price was right. I was interested in both the dog and horse sections - and while I don't necessarily agree with everything Ms. Grandin has to write, it is always thought provoking and stimulating.I'm not sure Animals Make us Human is a book you have to have available in your own library for repeated reference. But, I do plan to re-read the dog and horse section after I'm done with the rest before returning the book I have. My theory with anything is that if you can get an good idea or two, it has paid for itself. Cheers. |
Member: imogen |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 1, 2009 - 6:18 am: Chris - I read the article which is great but I am not sure I understand how you would integrate it with clicker training. Could you describe that or do you think the target idea is vital? I am asking because I think this is great where you have the luxury of two trainers (one to hold the target) but most of us end up trying to do this stuff on our own - hence if you can use a sound or a clicker it is really useful.Imogen |
Member: chrism |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 1, 2009 - 11:30 pm: I think the target is needed, but not necessarily a second person. A target can be anything that you click the horse for touching with his nose.In dog training, a target is merely an object of interest - it can be thrown, placed, held, etc. The idea is that dog responds to it. Right now I am using a "chuckit squirrel" which is a bit like a frisbee when my dog is going over a series of jumps - she is very flighty and distractable and the "flippy" sails past her and she grabs it up and brings it to me for a reward. It is the target. I think with the horse, you could use your hand as a target while you move. I've held up brushes and they've become the target to touch with a nose. "Touch" can be generalized to any object of interest. For the trailer you could tape an object in his stall (a paper bull's eye?) for him to touch for click and move it around so he generalizes. Later this could be taped around the the ring, near the trailer, on the side of the trailer, then inside, etc. To me, clicker training is hard for the human as we are expecting a linear progression and are slow to click, waiting for the exact behavior. It is also hard because we want to "tell" the animal what to do. And it requires some creativity and patience. The nice thing is that any mistakes you make merely give the animal an extra treat. Errors are pretty benign. I've a clicker training book for horses someplace around the house. I'll see if it suggests any targets. |
Member: chrism |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2009 - 11:09 am: Just to follow up with my promise. I have a copy of https://www.amazon.com/Clicker-Training-Horse-Alexandra-Kurland/dp/1890948357/ref =pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233763004&sr=8-1In it is a chapter on trailer loading. Ms. Kurland uses a whip as a target. She does a lot of "leading" using the target way before she consider loading. She also uses a bit of negative stimulus ala Dr. O's article on loading, which she characterizes as carrot and stick. What she thinks makes clicker training work is that the horse is not being forced to do something (putting him in the fear zone according to Ms. Grandin) but gives him some control on choosing to do it. It is also better than just putting food on the trailer as the human has control of what is acceptable and can build the time on the trailer before treating, unlike the horse who dives on, eats and throttles off .... My younger horse has been exposed to clicker concepts - I've used it with some in hand work. Monday I went out in her field with a clicker and a towel and a pocket full of tiny carrot bites. By the end of 10 minutes she was touching the towel on the ground for a click. The mugging for treats was gone as the click had to happen first. I think I'll resume some clicker training with both horses, just for grins, especially as I have a book and it gives me some ideas. Cheers. |