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Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4310
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 5, 2009 - 9:24 pm: |   |
For anyone who hasn't seen our old thread and would care to
http://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/7/319154.html
Well we graduated from the lunging
problems Not bad for a 12 yr. old horse and an old lady rider!
Hank is doing wonderful lunging on line and off, his ground training is going GREAT! I think we got it! Of course there is always room for improvement.
Big problem with Hank under saddle as I have mentioned is his big, out of control Motor(dancing and prancing idiot!). So our ridden lessons have revolved around walking,or stopping, from every gait when asked. We have been working on this..in the arena for quite sometime now. I decided we were not going out until he and I have this mastered. He's been doing very well, with every ride he has gotten better and so have I about not bracing.
Tonight we had the most wonderful breakthrough
As we have been going along this journey..my better riding skills are coming out. I just do not ride Hank right because of the trust issue.
Tonight after our liberty work I tacked him up and we went through our walking practice. He did excellent! Every time I have ridden that boy at a trot I break his back because of my tenseness and gripping legs(which causes terrible bouncing). When we trot a circle in the arena I KNOW it is horrible and I am hitting him in his kidneys. I try to go in a 2 point just to keep myself from doing that.
WELL tonight we were trotting a circle and in the second go around I noticed something...I WAS riding MUCH better no bouncing, he was relaxed and NO bracing. It was such a wonderful feeling and he moved so much better since I finally was with him rather than against him. We rounded our circles rather than throwing in the shoulder. It is the first time since I have been riding Hank(9 yrs.)that I rode him correctly (that's rather sad isn't it) it just happened, I wasn't even aware until I noticed we weren't falling in the circle.
He now walks with his head stretched and relaxed.
AND AND we did one very nice canter circle, I'm not going to push the cantering yet, because I can feel I am not ready..BUT it was SOOOOO nice.
My conclusion is I am finally starting to trust the little butt head. I relaxed for the 1st time on his back,and had a very nice ride.
For those of you that have prancing, dancing idiots. This has been our exercises to learn to walk and relax.
I think the biggest thing has been our at liberty training, he has learned to listen to me and have fun. He has a completely different look to his eye now when we work..instead of ignoring or wild, he looks at me intently and intelligently waiting for his next cue. I love the change in his eye.
It took me quite awhile just to get him to walk on the lunge line and at liberty(with the help of the smart HA people!), he does it consistently now when asked.
In saddle we have done thousands of transitions to walk and stop and stand still. I had to learn to slow him with my body and cues rather than pulling on the reins. Our cue to slow right now is if I pick up ONE rein and set my butt deeper. He backs now with just a shift of my weight quite amazing!
Will this carry over out in the pasture/trail??? I don't know, I do know when we go there again I will have much more confidence in him and myself, that in itself should help. If it doesn't work....back to the drawing board |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 2628
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 8:23 am: | |
Diane,
What a great update to read! You've come a long ways, both of you, and it's so nice to hear things are "clicking" for you both.
I can only hope some time I have such a nice piece to write concerning my life with Tango!
We had a major setback the other day; I left the reins over his neck, looped on the saddle horn. At some point he noticed the leather ends swinging on one side, and took off scared to death! He was actually trembling with fear when he stopped, see what I am dealing with?
I've been suffering from a flare up of CFS( ), and so I've been watching many shows from RFDTV that were recorded. Now I am armed with new ideas and methods to try. It IS amazing what matters when dealing with these wonderful animals!
A friend suggested I rename "Tango" and make it a point not to refer to him in any negative way...like "that Idiot" my "silly goose" or "that big goofy guy" she said that was bad karma!
So we don't have prancing idiots, we have wonderful, handsome, dancers! Hee Hee!
Thanks for the update, keep us in the loop. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4313
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 9:17 am: | |
Angie don't feel bad the other day I had Hank out to load him in my trailer..I sold it and wanted to see if he would load before the people came to get it. I haven't loaded him in 5 yrs.
I have mats in my trailer and decided to keep one of them, so pulled it out and left it laying there on the ground. I also had the trailer tarped so I had taken the tarp off and rolled it up on the ground next to the trailer door.
Took Hank out of the pasture and he looked at that tarp like it was going to eat him. The snorty, rattling nose started. I have trotted him over tarps, but I suppose all that stuff laying on the ground next to the entrance of the trailer was a little overwhelming
I finally got him over the tarp issue, walked to the back of the trailer where the mat was on the ground and he freaked out, jumped the mat, knocked me on the ground, and about broke the trailer door that was open
I was able to hold on to him, he turned and looked at me laying on the ground and started snorting and rattling his nose again. I will say he did everything in his power to miss me when he jumped, I just got bumped a little.
SOOO we had to have mat lessons (which he has been on thousands of times)...it just didn't belong where it was sigh.
We walked over the tarp, over the mat and into the trailer...took about 10 mins. to get him over his fear. When we came out of the trailer he pranced back to the yard...SOOO we had to do it all over again
You never know what might set these beasts off! But the more scary things you do with them the better they get...if you live through it! |
Erika L
Member
Username: erika
Post Number: 1769
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 10:21 am: | |
Diane, ahem...did you happen to hear a little voice in your head when you went to load with him snorting at the tarp? 
When you take Hank out for a ride, can you just go a little way out of the arena and then back in, gradually widening your area so it is only a little trip, not a whole separate ride for you both to deal with mentally?
I got a little annoyed the other day with Cleo on the trail. It was our first ride since the ball accident. She was acting spooky about everything and really starting to annoy me (she is NOT a spooky horse. I think she read about Hank's fake spooks). You know, stopping and snorting at nothing, it seemed.
I started doing some half halts (practicing them the Jane Savoie way, "Add...add...add..."), and a few lateral movements here and there. It seemed to really help get her attention on me and off all the little boogeymen in the bushes. It actually ended up being a really good ride.
The only drawback was that when I lifted the saddle and twisted to put it on Cleo, of course my back went "OW!!!" So I re-agravated that. Back on the Naproxin. But I rode anyway and it was okay.
So Angie, Tango is getting a nice nickname? Does that mean I have to stop referring to Cleo as "Fat, stubborn, ol' Cleo"?
Erika |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 2026
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 10:50 am: | |
Congratulations, Diane! You are doing a fabulous job with Hank, and there is NO doubt in my mind that it will soon pay off out in the fields. And I think Erika's idea is a very good one - I did the same thing when I started working Sparkles out in the open - just slowly transitioned for a bit of work outside the arena, kept working back into the arena and increased the distance away from the arena a bit at a time. Almost like, "oops, how did we get out here? No big deal, let's go back..." and "wow, here we are way out in the open, well you're being good, let's do a few exercises and then we'll go back". By the end of 2 summers ago, if I gave her a loose rein while in the outdoor arena, and the gate was open, she would head out on her own and happily do whatever work I wanted to in a relaxed manner.
Keep up the great work! |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4315
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 10:55 am: | |
Erika no I didn't hear a little voice, I heard a BIG voice screaming this is a bad idea! Especially where my trailer was located a small alley about 10 ft. wide with all the scary stuff laying there leading to a open trailer.
I do ride Hank up the hill when we are done(which has always been an out of control ride too) he is walking up it nicely now. Then we usually go up the driveway and a short way down the road. Traffic is a big issue with ME not him, So we have been riding in the front yard as traffic goes by....slowly I am relaxing.
Maybe I should quit calling Hank, BOOO, he probably wouldn't have jumped that mat if I used his proper name |
Lilo
Member
Username: lilo
Post Number: 1136
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 4:02 pm: | |
Diane - sounds like your ground work as well as your ridden work in the arena is really paying off. It was so great to hear about your success!
I am sure it will carry over into the trail rides - however, agree with everyone who advised to ease into it with short excursions.
Keep on going, and no more calling Hank the "little butt head".
Really, I am impressed.
Lilo |
Susie in AZ
Member
Username: sodmonst
Post Number: 76
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 11:45 am: | |
Diane, That nice ride you had sounds heavenly, and you and Hank were in mutual trust/partnership. Like the group says here, "out there" needs be only slight expansions at a time.
Oh, and here's a neat thing that I've discovered. Opening and closing the gates on horseback helps hugely the transitions from "in here" to "out there." I think that it's because in order to do it well, the horse needs to focus on me, and not think about the gate, anticipate what's next, or worry about what happened last time. It's a focused exercise in "one step at a time" with lots of pauses to relax between steps.
By the time we are going in and out of the arena gate easily, both moving forward AND backing through the gate, and without me ever needing to let go of the gate, and with no rush to get the latch done, we are in a different zone. Oh, being able to hold on to the gate is not a goal, it's more of a sign that we are calm and in sync.
I truly enjoy reading about you and Hank working things out together. |
leslie645
Member
Username: leslie1
Post Number: 777
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 12:31 pm: | |
I enjoy reading about it too and am very impressed with what your doing....it cant be easy task. But it sounds like your doing a fabulous job and hes coming along nicely! Great Job D!!
( I sent Pumpkin out to trainer to start her out of arena experience, last night was her first outing and she did great....eventually crossed the creek calmly... although it took awhile to figure out that the auto waterer was not a big blue monster out to eat her!! Lions and tigers and water troughs ...OH MY!) |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4318
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 3:33 pm: | |
Thanks for the encouragement it helps!
I think Hank is sick.
Today I decided to not play at liberty, I am tired and it was threatening rain. WE went down to the arena, lunged under saddle both ways and I hopped on. we rode in the arena for about half an hour and I decided to go out on the road up to the hayfield ( a head divers dream come true!) ANd the prancing dancing idiot shows up 99.9% of the time in there...not 100% only because I was stupid and let him eat to get him to calm down....which led to worse dancing and prancing, bucking ect. you get the picture.
Up the big hill to get out very nice walk...think we have that mastered if nothing else
Going up the road on a loose rein in the ditch with grass...he didn't even try a head dive (he's starting to scare me) I could hear some kind of vehicle coming and decided not to even look, as I knew panic would set in...we just kept going and I did pray a little...it was rattly i could tell that. A big loud pick up pullin a barge boat on a trailer went flying by us....not even a flicker of the ear.
I can't tell you what confidence that took in him. for me not to look back and react.
We made it to the hayfield up the road and went for a very nice quiet ride. When we turned for home he did pick up his speed at first and became a bit tense...This thread with all of it's advice ran through my head in one second. I released the reins, picked up one rein and we walked...no fight in him....no head diving...no spooking...no prancing. He seemed content ears forward and just going along relaxed....Is he sick??
Sam was calling for him, we went out the hayfield and past the house...not even an inkling of turning in the driveway, since I didn't ask...HMMMM
Up and down the other hill and back home....nothing bad tried.
Doesn't have fly fits when one lands on him???
You see I never dreamed Hank capable of this type of ride, even once!
When we got back I checked his hooves for a DP (none present)and he moved well...so his hooves are OK ??? I really think he must be sick |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4321
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 7:02 pm: | |
I have bute all melted for Hanks "feed" tonight.
I have been watching him out in "pasture" and he looks fine. I wonder if it is possible he was just a good boy finally...NAWWW.
I don't believe he could change personality's in just a months time just from doing liberty work or is it possible to go from devil with horns to angel with halo in that short of period??
NO he's sick or sore somewhere. I am going to save that bute for tomorrow morning and give it to him, then try him in the afternoon and see if the horns appear....think that is a good idea? |
Lilo
Member
Username: lilo
Post Number: 1139
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 7:08 pm: | |
I guess it will take a while for you to get used to the "new Hank". It gives me hope that some day I'll get my gelding to this stage - won't happen if I don't have time to work with him
The last two weeks were devoted to "water in the basement" issues ....
It is great to hear about your relaxing ride,
Lilo |
leslie645
Member
Username: leslie1
Post Number: 779
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 9:35 pm: | |
Big deep breaths girl, big deep breaths.
Maybe he's just sick of being a butt? Finds he likes this newfound thing you have going.
No DPs, no fever? no snotty nose?
L |
rtrotter
Member
Username: rtrotter
Post Number: 254
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 9:46 pm: | |
Diane,
I just signed up for this discussion topic, so I was glad to read about your escapades with Hank and that you were surprised that he was not showing his horns. It is probably a combination of you relaxing and the fact that Hank is learning to use his left brain ( thinking) and not his right brain ( fight, flight, flee). When at liberty he has to concentrate on you and what you are doing, you are the lead mare and we all know that mares tend to keep the boys in line. Once the horses realize this it doesn't take them long to translate that to you riding them which is why you are seeing such a big difference in Hank. Add this to the fact that he is now sound and you have a very contented horse and rider combo.
Good work, tell Hank you won't call him names anymore because he is such a good boy.
Horses are not such difficult creatures to understand and once you have figured it out and you treat them like horses it all works together. Unfortunately, not all horseowners can open up their brains and figure out what their horse is trying to tell them.
Rachelle |
Susie in AZ
Member
Username: sodmonst
Post Number: 77
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 9:53 pm: | |
Maybe Hank is more comfortable with you. It couldn't feel good to him being a big ball of nerves. My horse was a lunatic for a long time, and then became much better in the space of 2 or three weeks. He still has his goofy spells, but it's only about 5% of what it used to be.
Congrats on the calm ride. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4322
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 8, 2009 - 6:59 am: | |
Thanks, I'm still not convinced he is capable of being that quiet...but maybe. It rained all night and more rain today so won't be able to see if he is really good or not
Then again I can't believe the change in his whole demeanor towards me either. Hank has really turned into a different horse in all aspects.
Is it really possible that doing this liberty work for a month could do this?
If only you truly Knew the old bad, coniving, crazy, Hank...he honestly would flip out if if fly landed on his head...throwing it, grunting, leaping through the air, I am not exagerating! Yesterday the flies were horrible...no reactions...he tolerated them as he should. Can liberty work change that??? Very weird, but wonderful |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 2631
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 8, 2009 - 8:12 am: | |
It does sound like all your hard work is paying off. You have strenghtened the bond between you, and you've both gained confidence, plus he does look to you as the leader now.
It's a wonderful feeling isn't it? To have a 1000+ pound animal become totally putty in your hands! When that happens, you find yourself amazed, and it's usually, IMHO, when it seems you've just let go, and started thinking "whatever" and the relaxation and trust is there. I find that many times I've been bound and determined to get the horse to learn something, and the more I want it to happen, the more of battle there is! I think it's called "over asking, over expecting, and over doing" and it's the wrong way to do anything with a horse!
Now, Diane, be warned though: Hank may just be very comfortable with the current routine! When the rain stops (got that here now, and WIND)take a few more days doing your current routine, and start adding new challenges.
And remember, loose those negative adjectives, lol! Hank is a wonderful, kind hearted, steady, and trusting gentleman, right? RIGHT??? Tee Hee! |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4323
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 8, 2009 - 9:16 am: | |
I don't know Angie, I still say he is SICK. I am much more relaxed with him...but not totally, he will remain the dancing prancing idiot...until I am truly convinced!
The fly thing blows my mind! Also the not trying to head dive (tho I have been very adamant about NO grass when the saddle is on.) He usually is a little more persistant in at least trying...Just weird....I hope it is the time I'm putting in changing Mr. Wonderful....not convinced tho!!!
Looks like maybe the rain will be over this afternoon. The arena will be too wet to use, but I may be able to ride and see if this is truly Hank...I'm betting not!
I Better get to work so I can support these uh-hum wonderful animals |
Cindy O'DELL
Member
Username: zarr
Post Number: 1382
Registered: 6-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 8, 2009 - 11:47 am: | |
Perhaps the big change is in you not Hank? Reflections of the dog whisperer. Calm, assertive leadership ? Sounds as if you both have made giant strides.Just remember he is a horse and the friendly stump in the field might be a dragon next time but if you maintain your calm assertive self all will get better and better.Way to Go Diane!  |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 2632
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 8, 2009 - 11:59 am: | |
HA,ha, I thought Willow was sick Sat morning when I was working her in the arena. So then hubby comes out, barefoot, half asleep, (on his midnight stretch now)(to "check on me")and says "If I get on her, will you lead me to the mailbox and back up to the house?"
Sure....except I don't think he's ever been on her in the 18 years I've owned her, and he's 6', she's about 14.2....should have seen how "healthy" she was acting once he got on her, ! Swear she never saw a mailbox before, or been around the house to front yard!
Hubby asked me why do we keep such stupid & crazy horses?! He had trouble getting off, and I was just smiling.... |
Shannon
Member
Username: stek
Post Number: 274
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 8, 2009 - 1:02 pm: | |
Great news Diane. As others have said, my bet is that the change is that Hank has a new, more confident, relaxed herd boss who he can depend on to keep him safe and in line.
Don't forget, if you have a minor setback where you start to see horns poke thru again, don't let it get you down. Now you know what he is capable of, that should be the new standard. Don't be afraid to expect the best from him, you'll be much more likely to get it! |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4324
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 8, 2009 - 7:27 pm: | |
Yes I will expect it, but I don't forget he is a bit on the schizophrenic side either. He does have 2 personality's
Bad boy Hank seems to have disappeared tho (at least for awhile) Those eyes have really changed...for the best...they used to roll in his head while we rode or "lunged"...Gone!
Tonight we were able to go for a short, yet normally prancey/loose my mind ride...Perfect.
BTW I did bute him this morning 1.5 grams just to check
I will keep you abreast of this as it unfolds, I have a feeling he is just waiting for me to relax all the time...then blow up...Yes he is capable!
He isn't going to loose the idiot logo easily...nor am I, it took years to build it!!
Thanks |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4330
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 12:38 pm: | |
It is sooo nice out today and I got done with my route in very good time. The neighbor guy cut his hay field across the road...BIG piles of green alfalfa laying there! We are "going in" if he isn't an idiot in there I may have to give him 2 grams of bute.
If you don't hear from me in a few hours call an ambulance! |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4333
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 3:43 pm: | |
Well 2 grams of bute are soaking
I took Hank down to the arena and lunged him a couple mins. Hopped on practiced our walk and behave cue and out we went.
He was very very very good...we had one conversation about head diving...and I won it!
Traffic is a non issue anymore and that is one big relief!
Absolutely no prancing not even one step...we went out in the hayfield a long ways and I really thought the turn for home would bring out the idiot...especially when surrounded by alfalfa hay.
He is learning to control himself OMG!!!
There is a big hill in the hayfield and we normally have a fight from He$$ going up AND down it...I almost didn't do it. Going down he picked up the pace a bit...my normal reaction is to PULL back...then he throws a fit and I am lucky to get down it alive....when he picked up his pace today..I checked him with one rein...immediate release when he responded...GOOD BOY!!!
Going up that hill he always lunges, bucks, prances, throws his head ECT! Nothing NADA.
Our turn for home was flawless, didn't even pick up his pace...BUT that is when he tried to pull the reins out of my hands and head dive into the alfalfa... I was ready for that and he got reprimanded (he did get a bite of it) Back up and down the hill with no problems...THEN we stopped and stood in a pile of hay. He did not even TRY to get any.
I THINK I may own a good boy now! we are going to continue with the at liberty training, I think that has been key in his change of attitude.
Thanks again for all your help....next stop is developing an independent seat!!!! Please put your brains on how to do that I will need lots of help with that one |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4409
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 - 4:32 pm: | |
Good news, the idiot has completely been absent for almost a month now. Hank has lost his horns and become a saint!
The prancing I am now convinced is gone.
He hasn't "faked spooked" in weeks.
Today when I rode him a semi trailer went by pulling big round bales of hay...he didn't even blink an eye.
Flies are a non issue now, no more head tossing, no more head diving.
It is truly like owning a completely different horse. We still play at liberty most of the time before I ride, I believe it keeps him focused and he is awesome at it!
When I don't have time to ride I still will play at liberty with him a couple times a week. This is truly what helped me find my hornless wonder!!!
I always called him a wanna be good boy and he did want to be good I just had to learn the language of the horse to find it! |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 2055
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 22, 2009 - 7:12 am: | |
That's fabulous, Diane! Keep up the good work and give Hank an extra pat on the nose to celebrate the loss of his horns! |
Lilo
Member
Username: lilo
Post Number: 1153
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 22, 2009 - 2:17 pm: | |
Diane - that is great news! Hank is really a good boy!!! Lilo |
Vicki Z
Member
Username: vickiann
Post Number: 1195
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 22, 2009 - 5:27 pm: | |
Excellent, Diane and kudos to you and Hank. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4430
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 26, 2009 - 6:50 pm: | |
One last update, just because I am so thrilled with this horse now, I can hardly control myself!
I think a true horse miracle has taken place in N. IL..
Today Hank and I went through hill & dale on a LOOSE rein. YES in the prancey pasture...YES in the prancey hayfield. EVERYWHERE he has always been an idiot!
I wish I could describe the total difference in this horse. He even sat for almost a week without any riding or playing, we did no liberty training before I got on...just lunged 5 times each way. WOW AND YIPEE is all I can say Thanks for all your help! |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 2067
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 - 9:44 am: | |
That's wonderful, Diane. Enjoy your "hornless Hank" for the remainder of the summer and fall! (Are you sure you won't miss those horns just a wee bit??) |
Lilo
Member
Username: lilo
Post Number: 1155
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 - 10:13 am: | |
Absolutely great news, Diane! Enjoy! Lilo |
LL
Member
Username: frances
Post Number: 898
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 - 12:51 pm: | |
A true miracle indeed - the (horned) Frog has turned into the Prince-without-a-prance! Congratulations! |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 4433
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 - 1:04 pm: | |
NOPE don't miss those horns one bit.
I am quite sure it wouldn't be hard to get them to re-appear...if I get lonesome for them!!!
We are still on a pretty strict regimen, I don't allow that boy an inch, he is the type that will take the mile and run... |
