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Scott Holloway
New Member
Username: Silverlf
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 11, 2005 - 12:21 am: |   |
I have a 3 year old gelding that is resistant to the halter. I have been working with this horse for about a month and a half now and he was green when I got him. I have been introducing, rubbing and retreating with the halter and only once have I been successful in haltering without the help of another person. It takes two people to put the halter on ... one to hold the lead rope around the neck and a second to fit it over his head. The horse just keeps stretching his head/nose away from one person and almost panics. Once the halter is on, it is on with the ground work. Relatively few problems and normal progress except for this glitch ... I want to address this now before I introduce head stall and bit in the future. Any tips or techniques would be appreciated.
-Scott |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 691
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 11, 2005 - 2:16 am: | |
Scott,
Welcome to THE HORSEMAN'S ADVISOR.
How did you start this horse on ground work, and what kind of ground work are you doing with him?
Holly |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13318
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 11, 2005 - 7:20 am: | |
Hello All,
This sounds tailor-made for positive reconditioning see, Training Horses » Training Your Horse's Mind » Modifying a Horses Behavior: Conditioned Responses.
DrO |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 867
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 11, 2005 - 10:59 am: | |
Welcome Scott,
Dr. O's article is great and Holly will give you excellent advice as will many others on this board.
I'm the carrot lady  ...I have found that treats work very well for the horses I've dealt with.
Hold the halter up, with a carrot in the middle of the nosepiece. Let him take the carrot. Get another carrot, let him take the carrot and move the nosepiece up to his nose then remove the nosepiece from his nose. Get another carrot..with this carrot, actually put the noseband on his nose then remove it. Get another carrot... you get the picture Baby steps.
Once he sees it doesn't hurt him, you won't need the carrots any more, but you may want to give one for a few times after the halter is on.
I've found that if the horse is not restrained while doing this (ie. no one holding a lead rope around his neck) it works better but takes longer. Do you have a small enclosure to do this in?
I am not a trainer...this is just what has worked for me. Good luck!! |
Dennis Taylor
Member
Username: Dtranch
Post Number: 129
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 11, 2005 - 2:51 pm: | |
Welcome Aboard Scott ...
I am a trainer and I recommend a lot of desensitizing exercises with your horse in the round pen and then outside the pen when ready. A lot has to do with trust. I don't use treats, but have no opinion one way or the other, and know many who do. I spend a lot of time just working with the head and ears and the general area until the horse is comfortable with it. As for the haltering, and bridling when the time comes, I work with positioning the head where I would like to have it, and hold in that position until the horse relaxes and then I immediately release and pet and praise. Then repeat, and repeat, and repeat. Each time he resists, I hold and release and praise immediately when I feel him relax. Not until we can do this routinely do I introduce the haltering. I will rub the halter all over the horse so he understands it is nothing to be afraid of. Again, releasing at the first sign of the horse relaxing.Then I will work my way up to holding the halter in my hand as I place head in position as before, only this time with the halter in my hand. As Aileen stated, I do this unrestrained as I don't want the horse to feel pressure of any kind. This sounds like a lot, but it only takes a few repetitions until the horse realizes he can trust you. Most of my horses will actually place their nose in the halter as I bring it up to them. Lots of luck. Ditto on the good responses you will find on this site.
DT |
Scott Holloway
New Member
Username: Silverlf
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 11, 2005 - 9:33 pm: | |
Thanks for the prompt responses ...Holly... I have been using desensitizing exercises (Anderson style) with stick and string. He has little to no nervous response ... just stands ... I have just begun to work on yielding the hind quarters..... However .... after reading these messages, I think I am moving too quickly after looking at the bigger picture. 4th of July was a regression point for him ... much more nervous and suspicious of anyone. I plan to go back to my basics and gain back some trust. Prior to the 4th, I could be in the round pen with him and he would come to me when I called his name. That's where I think I need to go back to and reestablish the trust. I did as I read on another posting elsewhere on the site (I think it was Dennis) I just hung out with the horse. Time consuming but it did bring the anxiety down on the horse. I will also read over the DrO recommended post. Any other ideas?
Thanks again,
Scott |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 692
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 - 1:26 am: | |
Sounds like you are on the right track, Scott. The above suggestions are good. We can have all the best training methods in the world, but ability for each horse to respond is unique to each horse, and the #1 thing is to "listen to your horse." It seems that you are doing that. The way we learn much of what we learn is through making errors and/or pushing too hard too fast . . . if we are sincerely wanting to communicate with our horses, they will teach us in all of our horse/human interactions, ESPECIALLY when we err. A quote I have often used in teaching is: "Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment." One of the best tests I know, I learned from John Lyons . . . our horses need to be more calm AFTER we work with them than they were BEFORE. Let us know how you overcome this temporary challenge, as it may help some of us in our training. Best to you. |
Lori
Member
Username: Maggienm
Post Number: 80
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 - 2:17 am: | |
Scott, One thing I do is try to break down what I'm doing into smaller steps.
So, in order to put on a halter the nose piece has to go over the nose and depending on what type of halter you use either the crown piece goes over his ears or the strap comes up from the off side over his neck and is buckled/snapped into place.
I would use a small piece of rope or webbing and gently rub him all over with it. If I tried to put it near his nose and he pulled away I would stop, try to stop just before he pulls away and then rub where he doesn't mind, go back to the position just before he pulls away, then back to where he's comfortable. Gradually you will get closer to his nose and finally on his nose with no stress. If you stop just before he moves away he learns there is no issue, he starts to tense, you move away, hmmm nothing to be tense about.
I would do the same thing with a short rope around his neck. Only after he doesn't mind these moves would I go back to a halter. You can spend as much time on this as your schedule allows. Because you both are always calm there is no 'bad' place to stop the lesson.
Using a soft rope to rub a horse all over is a great way to desensitise them to ropes. I like to gently toss it around the legs and under the belly, over my head, the horses back, under the tail, etc. But this is not really what you are asking about.
Hang in and persevere.
Yeah Holly, bummer about how to get experience. |
Scott Holloway
New Member
Username: Silverlf
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 16, 2005 - 9:39 am: | |
 Thanks Lori ... Another good idea to add to the mix ... I have used a cloth square on him in the recent past too.
I also put him together with one of my already solid horses (nearly bombproof)and I interact with him with the other horse present. Anyone used this and/or found it to be beneficial? |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 873
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 17, 2005 - 9:47 am: | |
I didn't necessarily do anything with my horse with another horse present, however, I DID make sure the other horse could see....and yes, it does help. It will show the horse that there is nothing to be afraid of when the seasoned horse takes everything in stride. It helped a lot with baths, clipping, etc.
It was so funny, this was a 3 year old filly I spoke of above, and when my horse saw a saddle on her back and then saw my trainer got on her for the first time with no repercussions, my horse whinnied his satisfaction. It was so very cute and she was so very proud of herself...she got all puffed up and followed me around the arena with my trainer on board with no antics whatsoever. Trust is essential and having a horse who has been there done that helps, I think. |
Alden Chamberlain
Member
Username: Alden
Post Number: 190
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 7:19 pm: | |
Scott,
How do you mean, "moving too quickly"? Too quickly in steps or your movements around him? If you are watching Clinton Anderson you should realize that neither is necessarily wrong. Have you seen the horse starting competitions Clinton has won? Starting and riding a horse in what, two or three hours? (Sadly I'm not in that league and it takes me much longer. )
Many people work a horse and the horse doesn't get it. They think the horse needs more time. When really the problem is the trainer's timing is off and they are missing the proper moment for reward.
I'd suggest you go back and break the haltering process down into as many steps as possible, then see how the horse is at each step, see if you're missing some communication.
I'd also suggest that until the horse stands to be haltered properly don't do anything else. Get him haltered, then take it off and repeat (and repeat, and repeat ).
Good day,
Alden |
Scott Holloway
New Member
Username: Silverlf
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 24, 2005 - 10:40 pm: | |
Alden,
Moving too quickly in the training sense ... I'm not Clinton Anderson either. I have broken it down into shorter steps and there is improvement ... I want him to understand/respond to the end result (being haltered)... I'd put up with his resistance to get on to the ground work and he does need to learn to stand and be haltered ...  ... haltering should not be a trick!
Thanks again,
Scott |
