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Julie Hall
Member
Username: Julieh
Post Number: 20
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 2:59 pm: |   |
I have no idea what this is, so I had no idea where to post this. I have seen this phrase numerous times the past few weeks. What does the term "does not ride hot" mean? I saw this on a "for sale" ad for a horse. It states, this horse does not ride hot. |
Ann Schrichte
Member
Username: Annes
Post Number: 103
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 3:29 pm: | |
Julie,
I think "riding hot" means overly excited, hard to control, etc. |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 97
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 3:30 pm: | |
There are horses that are considered to be "hot blooded" and "cold blooded." The temperature of the blood is, of course, the same. However, when someone refers to a "hot" horse they are usually referring to the more refined breeds that are bred for speed and endurance, like thoroughbreds and arabians. Because they are bred to win races and long endurance rides, they tend to have a lot of energy and sensitivity.
When someone refers to a "cold" horse they are usually referring to the more heavy draft breeds that are bred for strength, power and solid build. "Cold" horses tend to be more laid back than their counterparts with the greyhound builds and temperaments. They are often "gentle giant" types. Often people breed the "hot" types to the "cold" types to try to combine strength, power, and mental relaxation with speed, agility and mental alertness to have the perfect blend (at least in theory). These are called "warmbloods."
Of course each and every horse is an individual. I have ridden horses in the hot breeds that have been downright lazy and horses in the cold breeds that would jump right out of their skin if they saw their own shadow. That said, the general trend does tend to hold true so people will call some horses "hot" if they have a very alert mental attitude.
A horse that "doesn't ride hot" is a horse that isn't spooky, is more laid back and able to take direction (even if it is an arab or TB). Of course, these people are trying to sell a horse so what may be "ride hot" for an experienced horseperson may still "ride hot" for a less experienced horseperson.
Hope this helps! |
Sue G
Member
Username: Warwick
Post Number: 171
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 4:08 pm: | |
My take on the term is the same as Ann and Debbie's. And Debbie's definition of "hot" and "cold" bloods is really good. However a "warmblood" is not a cross between a cold and a hot blood. That would be a draft cross and most definitely not a warmblood. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 777
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 4:38 pm: | |
Debbie - "...able to take direction even if it is an Arab or TB..") !!!! I hope my Arabs don't read this; they would definitely take offense, as would my friend's TB's!  |
Terri
Member
Username: Terrilyn
Post Number: 295
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 4:40 pm: | |
Ah, but it is! The term did originally refer to crosses between the lighter and heavier breeds. It has only recently become the way we refer to the Trakheners and Hanoverians and "Sport Horses" of today. |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 98
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 4:44 pm: | |
Sue, the original warmbloods were just that - heavy draft and carriage horses that were crossed with arabians and TBs. The two types have been integrated for so long that today's European warmblood is now considered to be of "modern type" and is very successful in the sporthorse disciplines.
Americans started playing the warmblood game within the past 50 years, but we are 200 years behind the Germans, so our "warmbloods" are often first generation draft/TB crosses and often miss the "perfect blend" that the Germans appear to have created over the past 200 years.
If you ever see an ad for an American, Irish or Canadian warmblood, you will find it to be a draft/TB cross. As far as Hanoverians, Oldenburgs, Dutch Warmbloods (what people usually think of when they hear the term "warmblood"), these have all been imported to most countries within the last 50 years and are European warmbloods. But even these had humble origins 200 years ago when the Germans crossed their local and regional "hot bloods" with their "cold bloods!" |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 99
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 4:51 pm: | |
Sara,
I didn't mean to offend. Some of my favorite horses ever have been arabs and TBs. They can indeed take direction very well, are incredibly trainable and as I said - each is an individual.
Admit it though - these horses enjoy a special, quiet touch to do their very best. That's what makes them so great. With a more laid back horse you have to kick kick kick and pull pull pull. With a more sensitive horse, you can just think about turning and they turn. It's a beautiful thing except when you are the kind of rider that has gripping, banging legs and bouncing, flailing arms. |
Sue G
Member
Username: Warwick
Post Number: 172
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 5:10 pm: | |
While I agree completely about the origins of the warmblood horse hundreds of years ago - I guess I wouldn't be much of a warmblood breeder if I didn't - today the term warmblood applies to horses that have inspected and approved parents within a warmblood registry and is not meant to define of a mix of types. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 779
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 5:23 pm: | |
Debbie-no offense taken!  Just teasing you a little...and I'll not let the horses read your post. |
Suzanne Reed
Member
Username: Sr26953
Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 8:06 pm: | |
I'm so glad I'm not the only one with terminology problems. When I was searching the ads, I couldn't figure out what "lightly backed" meant. I thought they literally meant they had taught the horse to back. Now I know it means that somebody sat on it.
Suzanne |
Julie Hall
Member
Username: Julieh
Post Number: 21
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 10:30 am: | |
Suzanne, I am very much lacking in the terminology of horses. I hope everyone does not get tired of me asking what something means, but you never learn if you don't ask. I have never heard "lightly backed", not sure I understand what that means. Until I joined HA, I would read magazines, books, whatever I could find if I had a question about something. Now, I just sign on and ask a question and BAM, I have an answer in NO TIME FLAT. I LOVE THIS PLACE! I am on here everyday now. |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 100
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 10:32 am: | |
Sue,
I agree with you about what constitutes a warmblood when it comes to European warmbloods. I also agree that the European warmblood breeding clubs have inspections down to a science now (I have attended and had mares and foals inspected myself). However, even todays stuffiest of stuffy European warmblood breed registries will allow quality TBs and arabians into their pre-studbooks and studbooks if they feel certain lines need to be lightened up due to some of the heavier, older bloodlines. Even today, they are still finessing the cross! In fact, one of the bloodlines in highest demand today in warmblood bloodlines is Lauries Crusader who is 100% TB. You also don't have to go very far through the Trakehner pedigrees before you start hitting a very strong arabian influence. That is why Trakehners have those gorgeous dishy faces and are lighter (and yes, sometimes hotter - sorry Sara) than the other warmblood breeds. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 709
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 11:38 am: | |
Julie, if a horse has been "backed," it means a human has been on him, and if he has been "lightly backed," it means he has been ridden . . . not a lot . . . a very green horse. Ummmmmmmmmmmm . . . you know that "green horse" is not a color, right? |
Julie Hall
Member
Username: Julieh
Post Number: 22
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 11:53 am: | |
That is so funny Holly! Yes, that is one term I DO know. I guess I should read Horses for Dummies, huh? I have had horses off and on for the past 15 years, mostly off, but before, I just rode them. I never understood them or tried to understand them. Now, I want to learn everything I can. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 783
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 12:51 pm: | |
Good for you, Julie! Don't ever feel "dumb" for not knowing stuff, especially on this board. There are so many people here representing so many breeds, disciplines, and countries that you are bound to be exposed to a lot of new terms, and also knowledge.
I, for one, am glad you asked about "backed" and "lightly backed." I've been with horses my entire life (62 yrs) and have never heard that term before used in regards to the amount of training a horse has had. Live and learn! |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 101
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 1:13 pm: | |
Of COURSE "green horse" is a color. It is what happens when you own a very, very white horse and bathe it for a show, stable wrap, blanket and wrap any open places in additional sheets and "horsey bubble wrap" only to find the next morning that there is a half a pile of green horse manure in the stall and the other half of the pile has managed to get underneith all wrappings and completely covered your horse in a supernatural shade of green that won't come out, not even with the fancy brand name expensive whitening shampoos made just for greys and all the starches and powders in the world. |
Sue G
Member
Username: Warwick
Post Number: 173
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 2:06 pm: | |
TB, Arabian and Shagya blood is integral in warmblood history and has been since the very beginning. A horse like Bay Ronald is just one example of a good TB stallion that was utilized extensively and he was standing way back in the late 1800s. He was just one of many, albeit a particularly influential one. I don't believe it's a case of being stuffy. It's knowing what crosses best with what else to improve the standards and get the desired results. There's never been a ban on the use of lighter breed blood. Also you wouldn't have stallions like the great Absatz without extensive use of Trakehner bloodlines which are heavily influenced by the Arabian and the Shagya. |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 102
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 2:14 pm: | |
Absatz! Perhaps my favorite bloodline of all time. Hot? Yes, but the best kind of hot. I would take 100 of them if I could.
Following horse bloodlines is like following fine wine isn't it? Perhaps its better, because no hangovers! |
Sue G
Member
Username: Warwick
Post Number: 175
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 2:23 pm: | |
Debbie, right now I have four from the Absatz line on the sire's side. There is a definite "stamp" to them. Then with Polydor on the dam's side it's a great mix of P and A lines. |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 103
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 2:43 pm: | |
PS - when I say "stuffy" what I am really referring to is the idea of the "closed studbook." The studbooks tend to be more "open" in certain breed registries and, well, "not so open" in others leading to mass production of the same 2 or 3 bloodlines within the registry (R and D bloodlines come to mind as the Hanoverian and Oldenburg bloodlines du jour).
I also remember reading something recently about the Holsteiner breed where they commissioned a study that found something like 75% of all Holsteiners are now very closely related to themselves due to the proliferation of a handful of popular stallions in the breed. I say, open the studbooks! Keep the standards high, but please lets keep the diversity of some quality hybrid vigor. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 786
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 2:44 pm: | |
Debbie - not just green horses, but green sheets, tail wraps, etc. Have you tried baby wipes and hydrogen peroxide? It works pretty good but you have to rub a lot. |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 104
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 2:46 pm: | |
P and A!! We need more P and A to cut through all the R and D thats out there! Good for you for keeping the A line going especially. I would love to see pictures of your babies if you have them. My email is debbie.green@cox.net. |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 105
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 2:56 pm: | |
O boy can I rub down a grey horse with the best of them. Fortunately for me, I am down to 2 horses now. One is a palomino and the other is a chestnut. No green horses here (well, maybe they are a little "green" seing as how one is an unbroken 2 year old who is a bit "hot" since he is a very dishy faced, super-fancy welsh pony and the other is a "lightly backed" 3 year old QH who is an old soul and very easy to ride)... |
Sue G
Member
Username: Warwick
Post Number: 176
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 3:11 pm: | |
Debbie, I'll try to email you some this weekend. I need to enlist the help of my husband as I am sadly lacking in computer skills especially when photos are involved! |
Ann
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 561
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 4:44 pm: | |
http://www.hanoverian-gb.org.uk/hhorse.htm
a little info on the A & D lines plus some...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS.. |
Ann
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 562
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 5:09 pm: | |
This is a photo of my 2 year old filly.. She is out of a Wanderbursch II mare, you can follow that line in the 'F' lines ( they tell you why the letter changes) damn's side also has the famous D lines as in Don Carlos
Danni's sire is the famous D lines Diamont / Duff II
as the article says you have to be careful in generalizing the 'lines'
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS.. |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 887
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 7:34 pm: | |
Ann, is this the filly I saw that you have up for sale? If so, while this is a beautiful picture, it does not do her justice, she is absolutely exquisite!!!!
Debbie, thanks to you for opening my eyes on my half arab. With this knowledge I will be so careful not to dull him. I know I'm guilty of not riding him correctly.
He's sensitive and hot...but sensible at the same time...and can have a bit of attitude. I may need everyone's help once I get on his back!! |
Suzanne Reed
Member
Username: Sr26953
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 22, 2005 - 8:01 pm: | |
Too funny on all the terminology. My new horse is grey, so I know all about green. And nobody knows everything so its great to have a place we can ask questions and get nice thoughtful answers without feeling stupid. Thanks everyone.
Suzanne |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 106
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 25, 2005 - 9:32 am: | |
Ann,
Its not that I don't like R and D lines; I was thinking more in terms of the huge surge of popularity of R and D in Oldenburg lines due to the heavy influence of Donnerhall and Rubenstein and their offspring. Mind you, there is a reason why these lines are so popular - it is because they are known to have the talent to win combined with a temperament that an amateur can ride. Plus, it is a "nick" that works well so if you are unsure what to cross, if you cross R and D you are likely going to have something nice because they cross very, very well with each other. This sells, and I wouldn't be at all disappointed to ride or own one! They are fabulous lines, just overused in my opinion.
I am weary of it because when I horse shop I see the same "name brand" of horse over and over again everywhere I turn, the market is flooded with them yet there are so many wonderful lines (like the Duellant/Duft II Hanoverian line of your mare)that get bypassed as breeders try to breed for the market. I really like your mare. The Duft II line is a wonderful dressage line. I would probably get very excited if I saw a quality youngster that had both Duellant and Absatz lines. That would be a fun ride! |
Ann
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 564
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 25, 2005 - 10:24 am: | |
Debbi I agree that the market goes for the ''flavor'' of the year.... I try to breed for what I would want to keep, cus lord knows I keep way to many of my babies..  I personally like some of the older lines.. thus you see it in my breeding program... I also breed for the armature rider..... there are not that many professionals that are looking to buy a horse of their own... they ride everyone else's mounts..
Yes, Aileen this filly is the filly I am selling...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS.. |
