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Discussion on Where does movement come from?
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Karen S
| | Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2000 - 2:14 am: |   |
Hi all
I have been pondering for some time about what makes some horses move well while others don't. The textbooks advise studying conformation as an indicator, but I'm not convinced it's the whole answer.
Here's a case in point: I have two horses, a thoroughbred I acquired off the track, and a warmblood (Hanovarian x approved thoroughbred mum). My thoroughbred has "textbook" conformation, but her movement - while correct - is unexceptional. And the warmblood's conformation is not as good, but her movement IS exceptional. And that's not just my subjective opinion, every judge who has seen her has raved about her - one told me to "wrap her in cottonwool because that's how talented she is" and another said there's no other horse in this city to match her movement.
So where does it come from? I stand and study her, but I can't see what makes the difference. Is it a gene like curly hair that just IS there or isn't? Or is it one particular aspect of conformation like her short back? She has a full brother nearby who is very different - much bigger and with nice movement but nothing special.
Guess this is what makes breeding interesting - and a gamble of course. The thoroughbred is in foal to the grandfather of the warmblood, so the result will be fascinating!
Karen |
S. T. Bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2000 - 11:17 pm: | |
Your queary is a good one. In AQHA Western Pleasure classes you trot for show but lope for dough! Supposely, a Qt. horse should have a short back in order to really lope well, however a sire (Zippo Pine Bar) whose line has produced the most sucessful lopers had an unusually long back. I have observed horses from the same sire and mare loping and one will be a good loper and the other a poor loper. These horses will have been trained by the same person and yet their movements are different. Also some good lopers can't trot worth a lick and vise versa. If there is a gene, it would be worth millions to isolate it. |
Richard Quinlan
| | Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2000 - 11:58 pm: | |
It is a dance between horse & rider... |
TRACEY LOMAX
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2000 - 4:58 am: | |
That is beautiful, Richard. Karen, I think (and I am no expet, just someone interested in this) that what you are referring to is cadence. It is that indefinable thing which causes one to look at certain horses and say "oh my God" - it is art in motion, a fluidness of form which makes every movement that horse makes take your breath away, and observe that, indeed, there is a higher intelligence out there, for surely it was not random chance which led to this animal being created. It is cadence which inspires poets and artists to put pen or paint to paper to try and capture the spirit of the horse. Of course, they fail, but still they try because, in cadence there is beauty, light, life and, above all, spirit.
In striving to improve as equestrians, we try to replicate, under saddle, that cadence, that poetry.
It is a precious, perfect thing, and you are honoured to have this horse. Don't be tempted to wrap her in cotton-wool : cadence is meant to be free - let her run, let her move : and remember that it is your task, as her rider and owner, to care for, nurture and encourage this movement, for it is all-too-easily ruined by an uncaring and thoughtless rider.
I hope I'm making sense here, and not sounding overly-esoteric, it is just that, for me, there is no greater feeling than sitting on a horse who has cadence - and no greater responsibility. |
Teresa Alexander-Arab
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2000 - 2:51 pm: | |
Hi Karen,
I do know what you're talking about and I agree that it's not as simple as conformation. I tend to view it as how the horse views himself/herself. Some horses seem to have a desire to show themselves to their best. You see similar things in people, for example: a person who can mesmerize an entire room, a dancer on the stage,etc,. Training can help, but it can't manufacture it.
TeresaA |
S. T. Bruce
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2000 - 7:13 pm: | |
I refer to it as "presence" and you are right it can't be trained into a horse. Richard is also right as cadence has a lot to do with movement. In West. Pleas. we tend to slow our horses down before they develop cadence and this destroys that movement we all like. I do feel that the horse will have that "presence" and cadence and that it can't be manufactured. Many a horse has made a great trainer and few trainers have made great horses. |
Karen S
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 9:47 am: | |
Hi again
Hmmm... suppleness? Could that be the difference? Because I think Tracy hit the right word with "fluidness". It's the way she bends her joints and lifts her hind legs and the tremendous freedom in the shoulder area, which makes her light on her feet and as graceful as a ballet dancer.
I am honoured to... own?? Well... to be her daily slave would be more accurate! LOL
But I think we need to take care not to allow the idea of "responsibility" of having a talented horse not mask our human ambitions. She doesn't care whether she gets trained to a high level and wins lots of ribbons - or is left to run around a paddock for the rest of her life. Food, water and shelter... and the rest is for us, not them.
She is special - not least of which because she had a bad start in life and an injury which went unspotted and the response put down to "behavioural problems" (!) - and the sweet nature and willing temperament is a miracle in the circumstances. So I'm taking her training very slowly and every ride is a source of joy.
Karen |
Deborah Horan
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 12:20 pm: | |
I think it is the fluidness, the suppleness that others have spoken of. It's a way they move, the snap of the stride. My Standardbred moves, strides, steps beautifully; my Thoroughbred doesn't quite have it. The SB was a throwaway I acquired and trained myself, a bare minimum of training. The TB has been through several owners, trainers, instructors, the show ring, all that (not with me). So the SB just has the movement naturally, the TB doesn't. I think with some horses, some trainers can teach the improved cadence and style, can promote. But I think with most horses, it's a natural gift. |
Karen S
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2000 - 4:43 am: | |
How soon can you tell after a foal is born how it will move and what its conformation will be like? I've heard some people say that it's apparent almost immediately, in the first couple of days, while others day you won't know for a long time how the foal will turn out.
What do y'all think?
Karen |
Eileen Keeling
Member
Username: Ekeeling
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 - 2:00 pm: | |
Hi Karen,
I have a warmblood mare who looks quite common in the field but under saddle (and also when all the horses are spooked) whaw! She really is a pleasure to watch and ride. She now has a 16 week old filly who is TB X Warmblood and she has inherited her mothers movement. We can see the cadence when she trots especially when she is playing sometimes all four feet are off the ground at the same time! It's hard to explain but that's what it looks like and we could see this from a couple of weeks old when she got her strenght. If you look at most horses when they are in flight mode they all move stunningly I think it's mostly us riders who spoil them. I just pray we don't spoil our little filly.
Regards Eileen |
Ginette R. Abbanat
Member
Username: Kkmp
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 - 9:33 pm: | |
horses are graceful. so are ponies |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 90
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 - 3:15 pm: | |
I think you are all right! The conformation has to be there, suppleness can be natural and also can be taught and improved upon if the conformation is there to allow it. Conformation is genetics. But, there is something else that comes from within the horse, also-presence, sense of self, inner spirit. This latter thing is something we humans have to be careful about not "killing" or surpressing. That's the fine line, and the "dance" we do with the horse-to be a partner, a teacher, a learner, without being a surpresser. Some horses naturally have more self awareness than others, and they have it from birth. This, I believe, is also genetics. (Or, perhaps as some believe, the "spirit" or "soul" of the horse that it is born with. ) I know that I have certain mares who have "it" and all their foals do too. From the moment they are first trying to get to their feet they have a certain "something" about them that makes them different from the other horses.
The conformation give them ability to move a certain way, and the inner spirit gives them the desire. |
Maureen L. Taylor
Member
Username: Pinkapp
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 24, 2004 - 9:20 pm: | |
From my experience, the reach and forward swing of a particular horse's shoulder plays a large part in the grace and beauty of their stride. A horse with a short, up and down, front end gait will eternally appear rough and not especially graceful. On the other hand, a horse with a shoulder that swings free can be lengthened and shortened as needed to achieve the balanced, graceful movement that wins in both the HUS and Western Pleasure pens.
That's not to say, though, that conformation is the be all and end all of a brialliant performer. Just as other posts have expressed, that desire to perform, that "presence" in the ring, only serves to heighten a horses natural abilities AND their training. One of my 2 1/2 year old fillies is a whopping 3 3/4" shorter in the front right now, but she's got a long, reachy shoulder that allowed her to compensate for the vast height differences. And she must have compensated pretty well considering that she earned a Circuit Reserve Champion Green Horse award her first year out. |
Maureen L. Taylor
Member
Username: Pinkapp
Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Dec 25, 2004 - 12:01 pm: | |
Here's a photo of the horse I was referring to in my previous post. The vast height difference front to back obviously didn't make much difference to her performance. I would have liked to have seen her driving deeper behind and less "behind the bit", but since she had only been under saddle for about 45 days, I'm exceedingly pleased with her performance.
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