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  Discussion on Heavy on the forehand arthritic gelding
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Member:
Mleeb

Posted on Sunday, Jul 2, 2006 - 10:33 am:

My 12 yo gelding Doc has arthritis in the navicular joints. I have posted lots on him under Disease of the bones and joints when it was first diagnosed (in late March). In the last 3 weeks he has gone from dead lame to having an IV shot of HA, showing improvement, being reshod in natural balance shoes, showing more improvement, and finally, I am back to riding him. I lunged him lightly for 2 days before saddling up on day 3. I ride him for about 40 minutes, lots of walking and trotting, brief lopes, no hard turns or hard stops. He showed no lameness at any gait. He crosses over well, but not perfectly, so I know he's not 100%, but I would say 90%+. He's a former reiner, a solid built 15.2 hh QH, and he's in good shape as far as weight goes, and quite well muscled for having had more than a year without regular work. He's on pasture 24/7.

That's the history. Here's where we are now. Doc rides on a loose rein and neck reins very well. He moves well to leg pressure, performs perfect circles, stops well, backs well. At the walk and trot, we could impress any western pleasure judge. He can collect and extend both gaits with little effort from either of us. However, the moment I ask for a lope, his noes heads to his knees and I get a hard, ground pounding rocking-horse gait where he is obviously pulling himself along with his front legs. I know he can do a proper, very beautiful lope, as he did it last fall when I bought him, and never once did he do this so-called lope instead. At other gaits, picking up on the reins (literally straight up) will bring his head up, and a little jiggle will DrOp it down. This isn't working here. I have tried doing it one-handed with both reins at once, and tried separating and lifting the inside rein, bumping the inside rein, alternate contact on inside and outside reins etc. Nothing works.

Yesterday, I had given him some Bute in the morning, and rode in the evening (maybe as the bute was wearing off) to see if it improved him. I would say he was better than the previous day, but if that was due to the bute or the fact that he's had 4 days of exercise, I don't know. As he was moving a bit better at the lope, I pushed his speed up a bit. The head rose, the back rose and everything got better. Still not the way it should be, but better. I didn't move my hand at all, so I wasn't consciously pushing him into the bit.

So, what I want to know is, is this reasonable for a horse with arthritis, or is this lack of conditioning, and can I improve it with exercise, or do I need to figure out a way to bring him under himself at the lope, as if I was retraining him?

Also, at the trot he frequently slips into what I call his lazy gait, and I can hear him dragging his toes (back feet). I have seen him do this in the pasture just at a walk, and the farrier even asked if he was doing it. I hadn't noticed until after that when I started watching for it. Again, lack of conditioning, or arthritis? I tried trot poles yesterday, and he hit them with his hind feet more than he cleared them. I used 3 poles, 3 paces apart. Should I try this again with only 1 or 2 poles?

Any comments would be appreciated. I am no pro trainer by any means, and this is the first horse I've owned that would even do a lead change, so I'm still figuring out the fine tuning myself. I had hoped he would be my teacher, but then this arthritis thing came up, and you can see where we are at.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 2, 2006 - 7:01 pm:

You say he moved perfectly at a lope when you bought him; was this when you were riding him, or was someone else riding?

How does he move at the lope on a lounge line or in a round pen? Does he get his rear end under himself or does he string out behind and pull himself along with his front end?

The toe dragging at a trot, and hitting the poles as he goes over them can be just not paying attention/not interested or laziness. A lot of times the strung out lope and the toe dragging trot go together and although it can be caused by a physical problem, in most of the horses I've seen it in, it is caused by inattention, laziness, and not using the hind end.

Just off hand without seeing your horse, I'd be surprised if his problems under saddle were caused by arthritis. (though I could be wrong!) Lack of condition imo would play a part; do you know how to get him to collect? If so, I would ride him collected for a few minutes at the walk, then let him relax, then collect again, etc. I'd work up to doing this at all the gates. Over the poles, I'd make him pay attention to where he was going and go over first at a brisk walk, then a trot. Use some leg on him to "wake him up" as you go over.

Probably others here will have some other ideas and better suggestions, but it kind of sounds like he's either out of condition and it's more work than he wants to put out to collect and use his hind end. Or...you aren't using the right cues with seat, legs, and hands, to get him to do so and he's gotten away with not collecting so now sees no reason to do so.
Member:
Canter

Posted on Sunday, Jul 2, 2006 - 9:53 pm:

I agree with Sara: after so much time off, your horse is likely just out of shape. It will take time for him to build up his strength again so that he can properly bear weight on the back end. In addition to the suggestions above, I would do lots of quality transitions, at all gaits, but for now, given how much time off he's had, I'd start with halt, walk and a little trot (transitioning frequently among the three) and then slowly add in walk-canter, trot-canter, etc transitions.

There is an excellent "re-hab" schedule on here somewhere which will help you bring your horse back into shape without over doing it. Perhaps DrO or another member can help you find it - I cannot remember where it is.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jul 3, 2006 - 7:08 am:

As either case, lack of condition and pain from arthritis, is possible Michelle it is impossible to say and most likely it is a combination of factors leading to your horses decreased performance. But neither do you have to know to progress, just keep your eyes open. The real question we need answered is how much and what type work can this horse do without aggravating the arthritis.

You will have to come to this slowly watching for early signs of worsening lameness. You should slowly increase the amount of work to discover the limits of your horse. The article on overview of arthritis gives some pointers on work and the use of NSAIDs and nutriceuticals to help.
DrO
Member:
Mleeb

Posted on Monday, Jul 3, 2006 - 11:27 am:

"You say he moved perfectly at a lope when you bought him; was this when you were riding him, or was someone else riding?"

This was when I was riding him, although I did get someone else to ride him as well so I could watch him go.

On a lunge line, I've only loped him twice, mostly due his only so recently being sound enough to do anything with, and also because he is a pretty laid back horse on pasture 24/7, so I can go right to riding if I want, without needing to lunge first. I will be putting in more time on the lunge line, however. Anyway, he bolts and runs madly when he sees the whip and I call that pure bad behaviour, so far, his only real flaw in manners. When I can get him back on the line and circling, his lope is quite fast and looks pretty good. There's probably room for improvement, but I'm not that discerning yet in what to look for. I can only say, he does not appear to be pulling himself around by his front legs. I had noticed under saddle that the faster lope was more collected, as well. All other gaits are good at the lunge, and he extends with just a kiss.

Last night I had a friend with more knowledge come over and try him. I was riding a different horse at the time, so Doc wasn't warmed up. I pulled him out of the field, gave him a 5 minute walk, trot and lope and he was already better than the night before, and the night before that. I had to wonder if it really wasn't just a matter of conditioning since there WAS a noticeable improvement. All the same, the friend got on and picked up on things I hadn't noticed. (The advantage of more skill and no regular riding on this horse, I'm guessing). At a walk and trot, she says she can feel his front legs moving, one more than the other. She described it as "right, LEFT, right, LEFT." He was better collected than on previous nights, but again, still not there all the time. I can understand that, as I know it takes a lot of muscle to sustain. Just watching him trot while she was riding him gave me a view of him I'd never had before. When he was trotting straight towards me, his front legs looked wide apart, like a bulldog stance, instead of moving forward smoothly. His legs weren't angled outward or splayed, they just looked braced as if he needed a wider frame to maintain balance. I've never had the opportunity to view him from this angle before, so maybe he always looks like this, as he is quite a well built horse, not slim and delicate looking, but it seemed odd all the same.

Anyway, I'm going to continue to work him for about 45 minutes a night, with a 1-2 day rest period each week, and slowly build up the amount of loping he gets. He's only at about 5 minutes now, and that's not all in a row, but rather in about 3-4 separate intervals. We work in an arena with a sawdust/woodchip footing, so he's got good cushioning under his feet, but it's not deep. I may try some bute on him at some time to see if it makes a difference in his movement.
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