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Ellie Leo
Member
Username: Skye
Post Number: 134
Registered: 5-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 9:02 am: |   |
Among others, Kelly Marks prefers long-lining to lungeing, claiming lungeing from the center ring of a lungeing cavesson puts enough weight there to cause the horse to tip his head out and counterbalance. She also says this:
...horses woud be better off if people did long-lining with two reins to gain added control, and then applied a bilateral pressure so the horse can travel with head directly in front of him or with the appropriate tilt, keeping the muscular nervous, and skeletal system in balance....there is the potential for a far more stimulating time. Introduce some [ground] poles...and changes of direction and transitions.
I wonder how others feel about ideas? One reason I ask is my young one doesn't seem to be enamored of lungeing, and what Marks says makes some sense to me.
Many thanks for any responses! |
KATHLEEN WHEAT
Member
Username: Kathleen
Post Number: 245
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 12:22 pm: | |
Ellie,
Have you ever seen the Parelli 7 games? One of the things I learned from them is to wander while having the horse on a long line. I just walk and she goes around me and through trees, feels pressure and turns back through the trees, etc. I can walk in a straight line and she will continue to circle me, in effect she is going straight and is turning. There is never any pressure on the line if you start them correctly. There are many possibilities and variety of exercises (games) you can do. My mare will get into a very extended trot if I start trotting just as soon as she reached the point where she will be turning and coming my way. And I only have to trot a few steps because I started before she did and she had to catch up, then pass me, then I can turn and she can keep trotting. This is just an example of the fun you can have and still be training. I did start this mare out long lining (ground driving) at the age of two, but I ended up getting much more exercise than I wanted.
Kathleen |
Katrina
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 531
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 12:39 pm: | |
Kathleen, I didnt know people trot. Its too cute. Got to love it.  |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1214
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 5:52 pm: | |
I disagree with that reasoning, Ellie. However, it may depend on the discipline, I do not know how western horses are trained.
In Dressage, we don't teach horses to follow their nose and we don't introduce rein aids, especially turns and changes of direction, until basic balance and an honest contact with the bit are well established.
Basic balance and a good contact are achieved with side reins, long reining can never be as steady a reference for the horse.
Disturbing his mouth while he tries to find his balance is not beneficial. |
Alden Chamberlain
Member
Username: Alden
Post Number: 338
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 9:56 am: | |
I find many people don't lunge to train a horse but to burn energy off a poorly trained horse, the interesting thing is the latter doesn't work.
There are a several good videos on proper use of the round pen and lunging for respect.
Good day,
Alden |
Dennis Taylor
Member
Username: Dtranch
Post Number: 219
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 10:15 am: | |
I don't see it as an "either" "or" situation. They are both beneficial for different training objectives. I'm with Alden, I can't imagine training a horse without a good lunging program .. and this is not just running around on the end of a rope.
DT |
Erika L
Member
Username: Erika
Post Number: 289
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 4:15 pm: | |
I just want to know if Kathleen can canter, too .
Erika |
KATHLEEN WHEAT
Member
Username: Kathleen
Post Number: 246
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 7:58 pm: | |
Yes, and in the correct lead every time!!! Not gaited though.
Kathleen |
Katrina
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 539
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 8:06 pm: | |
Too funny |
Lori
Member
Username: Maggienm
Post Number: 179
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 6:58 pm: | |
I see many people doing what they call lunging but to me it appears to be an exercise in centrifical (sp) force.
The person is braced in the centre with the poor horse on the end of a taut line, going round and round.
Imho, when a horse knows how to lunge there may or may not be slack in the line, there may be contact, there will never be tightness, and the horse will definitely be arced to the inside.
I think lunging is one of the most poorly understood exercises in the horse world. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1234
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 7:15 pm: | |
I totally agree with Lori.
I would only like to add that the bend to the inside must be a slight one.
We want to gently bend the horse to the circle, not winch a stiff horse's nose in while his hindquarters drift to the outside. |
Lori
Member
Username: Maggienm
Post Number: 181
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 30, 2006 - 3:20 pm: | |
Yes Christos, good point. I teach a horse to give to pressure so when he feels even the weight of the line on his nose he gives his nose softly to the inside. |
ellen hansen
Member
Username: Ellen66
Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 2:07 am: | |
I use ground exercises a lot, and like to use lunging as well as longlining and later on ground driving and -if the horse is mentally suitable- driving. One builds on the other, but each also covers different aspect of balance and skill development. There are many exercises that will keep the horse interested - and we will help the horse to develop balance and build correct muscling.
I was always worried about the pressure on the bit when I am longlining, but I do like the idea of guiding the horse's whole body with the two lines; I also like it as a training step when I teach a horse to drive. So my solution to the dilemma is that -depending on training level and sensitivity of the individual horse- I either use a well fitted halter and snap the lines into the siderings, or I put the halter over a simple onepiece headstall and snap the lines into the bit AND the halter siderings together.
Properly ground driving is the next step up after longlining, and definitely is a challenge, but also very rewarding for the horse and handler. I am not sure why it was such a building block in Classical Dressage and now seems to be largely forgotten in the modern (Dressage) training? Any ideas?
Cheers, Ellen |
Dove2
Member
Username: Dove2
Post Number: 90
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 7:03 am: | |
Possibly because it is quite intimidating to a novice horse handler. (It is to me, anyway.) I fear I, or worse: the horse, might get all tangled up in the lines! With so few people who know how to correctly longline, there are not many folks from whom to apprentice. I sure would like to learn to longline correctly though. |
Angie
Member
Username: Ajudson1
Post Number: 827
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 7:57 am: | |
Ellen,
I do free lunging first in the round pen til the horse joins up with me. Then I do lunging with the halter on. A rope halter only, no webbed or leather halter.
Next I also do the ground driving with the lines attached to the bit and halter like you suggest. If the horse is used to doing everything on a loose line, one line, ground driving won't be a problem.
Dove2,
as far as the horse getting tangled up, I prefer that they do! Let them wrap themselves all like a yo yo for all I care; it teaches them not to panic and to wait for help getting untangled.
If you've done your work with one line, the horse should be very used to ropes all over him anyhow. And under his legs, between his legs, and under his tail.
Don't just ground drive around and 'round in a circle; set up cones, have small logs to walk over, tarps on the ground. Anything you can imagine can be safely ground driven over. This all adds to the youngsters confidence for when you start riding him.
Then go on walks everywhere, if you can keep up! Some horses really like to go, and you may find yourself jogging while they walk! When I get tired of jogging, (when my Achilles tendons start aching) I just do some circles again, and practice halting in the open vs driving into the corner.
I think what is intimidating to the novice is all the lines, and fear of hurting the horse. My advice is let the ends of the lines drag behind you. Start in a small area like a round pen. Use a surcingle so you have the rings to run the reins through. If you are worried about hurting the horses mouth, don't drive off the bit. A good caveson is great to have also, but the really good ones are spendy, the cheap ones are not much better than a halter.
Don't be afraid to try ground driving. Start with an older horse that won't panic til you get the hang of it. It's really fun and interesting what you can do! I am not real coordinated at it even though I've done it enough, but that's me.
Dove, I would also suggest making your own rope lines, 30' long. I like a heavier rope vs the flat driving lines most places sell. The webbed lines don't have the weight, and they get tangled to easily IMO. Using a different color for right and left also helps.
I use side reins very briefly a few times on the lunge line, then I don't use them anymore. Just to get the horse a little used to the bit. I've gotten away from that.
Just some of my thoughts, take what you will. I am still learning too! |
