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Dove2
Member
Username: Dove2
Post Number: 68
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 - 4:23 pm: |   |
Whenever my daughter trots or canters her mare, the mare's head turns to the outside fence. For the most part, the horse continues forward (although occasionally at the canter, she'll duck her shoulder and move her body laterally).
My daughter has tried numerous training techniques, including lots of circles, lateral flexing on the ground, making the horse do a tight circle as soon as she turns her head out, but nothing seems to cause her to want to keep her head straight ahead. Has anyone had this issue and successfully resolved it? Any tips or techniques would be greatly appreciated.
For info, this is a young 4 year old mare, quite green. She's had about six owners in her first three years of life, until last Oct. when my daughter bought her. She is a very willing mare and tries to do the right thing, but getting her to understand to keep her head straight seems to be a real challenge. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1326
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 - 5:14 pm: | |
" Inside leg, Christo ! More ! Inside seatbone! Sit straight ! Inside leg ! "
(I still hear his &%*#$* voice in my sleep sometimes) |
Kthorse
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 626
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 - 5:21 pm: | |
Tooo Funny |
Ann
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 891
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 - 5:46 pm: | |
I have had the same drill Christos.. It is very natural for a young horse to look to the outside....what is happening is the horse is popping out the inside shoulder Keep a steady outside contact with the rein, and ride the inside leg to the outside rein.. give and take with the inside rein.. and keep the horse moving foreward into your hands.. Practice .. Practice and more Practice.. you will be hearing the little voice too..
On the first day God created horses ,on the second day he painted them with spots.. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1327
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 - 6:17 pm: | |
Dove2, please explain to your daughter that nobody can apply strong inside leg if he does not sit heavily on the inside seatbone.
The fact that the rider is using all his strength does not mean that the lower leg gets through, that pressure on the horse is applied.
Most beginners and children can barely break an egg with their leg against the horse's side. They sweat, they fight and still no leg is applied. Because their seat is light, they have no anchor, no base, no foundation for that leg.
It is not a matter of having strong thigh or lower leg muscles, it is a matter of having a base, a platform to support yourself in order to apply pressure. |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 219
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 12:02 am: | |
To get my inside (or outside) leg strong on the horse, I think of my leg as a pole that comes straight out of my hip. Kind of like stretching my leg down only on one side. For me, the effect is a pressing inside seatbone and it actually requires less leg strength than just pressing with your calf which usually ends up bringing your heel up. Of course my knee stays bent and the heel stays down . . . . its more of a mental image. I suppose you could just try it and see if it works. The result is a very strong leg that the horse has a hard time leaning into.
On the other hand, I cannot use this leg as a forward aid, it just doesnt seem to work bilateraly.
Obviously I have not analysed this too much, it is just something that works for me. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1328
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 3:58 am: | |
Excellent description, Shelley. That's exactly how it works (or does not).
Very often, especially at the canter, a beginner's seat will be thrown to the outside, especially on a green horse.
The green horse finds it very natural to negotiate turns by careening into them with a bend to the outside, his neck and head also turned to the outside, leading the turn with the inside shoulder.
This hollows, drops the horse's outside, which causes the rider's seat to slide that way. As this is a rather fast way of negotiating turns and circles, centrifugal force adds to the rider's shift to the outside.
Now what do we do when we feel we're sliding to the outside? We sit tight on the outside seatbone and step in that outside stirrup, trying to resist the forces that push us outwards.
But as Shelley describes, this is a very efficient way of applying very strong outside leg. The horse will bend even more to the outside, will probably careen more, we'll inadvertently apply more outside leg, he'll careen some more, to the point where he has to speed up to maintain his balance.
Now if we don't allow him to speed up, he only has two options. Either falling on his side or "popping" his inside shoulder and turning tighter to catch his falling weight.
How do we fix this? We remove the outside stirrup so the rider can not lean into it.
Again, this annoying voice:
"No, no, no, what are you doing? What...yeah, sure, come here! Give me one stirrup and see how it works!" |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 355
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 10:57 am: | |
Great advice here -- thank you so much! |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 477
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 11:05 am: | |
I was taught something interesting lately. To get more weight onto that inside seatbone for canter departs the rider can look slightly to the outside, which automatically shifts your weight on to the inside seat bone. But I shall try dropping the outside iron Christos....By the way...this annoying voice....is it of past trainers in your head? |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1331
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 5:48 pm: | |
Yes, Corinne, looking to the outside makes it easier, but I believe it is a very bad habit. Do not twist your body for the canter depart.
It drops your outside shoulder down and back and it pushes your inside seatbone forward rather than down, where it belongs to support a straight strike-off. It is for preventing exactly this habit that we teach beginners to hold the pommel with the outside hand.
The cue for canter is the outside leg sliding passively backwards. Just a tiny bit, not all the way to the horse's loins as we see so often. This tells the horse that we prepare for canter. The cue for strike-off is a bit more inside seatbone and a gentle "push" forward with your inside calf.
The "annoying" voice in my head belongs to my last trainer (perhaps the only trainer I ever had, it depends on how you define one). |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 478
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 10:44 pm: | |
Thanks for the advice.....now do you have any on how I diplomatically put that to my new coach? I don't want to learn any bad habits as I have enough of those already! LOL.
As for the strike off....it sounds like we are on the same page there!
And as for the trainer's voice in your head, I can relate...I have had four (instructors) so far because of our moves...plus multiple clinicians....I don't know who to listen too at times but it seems they all have left me with something that has benefited us and I have been able to take a hodge podge from each and find what works for us. Although it is funny when I remember what one of my British coaches (with her thick accent) said....her voice still has her accent when I remember her instructions.  |
Dove2
Member
Username: Dove2
Post Number: 69
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 7:19 am: | |
Thank you all for your good advice. I forgot to mention my daughter is an excellent rider (probably considered an advanced intermediate) and has the strongest leg aids in town, which she uses consistently just to keep her mare going straight. She'll try using more of the weight and seat aids though and see if that helps. And removing the outside stirrup sounds interesting! We'll report back, but it may take some time. "Practice, practice and more practice." You're right, Ann! Thanks much for all the good tips! |
Dennis Taylor
Member
Username: Dtranch
Post Number: 246
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 9:11 am: | |
I agree with Christos's comments, but do have one question regarding your canter depart. I have always used the inside leg slightly back to move the horse to the outside rear leg which then pushes off to create the lead with the inside front leg. I use my outside (rail) leg on the girth area to ask for the forward acceleration. Am I totally wrong here .. it has always worked for me to get the proper lead.
DT |
Angie
Member
Username: Ajudson1
Post Number: 689
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 9:56 am: | |
Dennis,
I have always been confused on that simple aid myself. I thought that we used the outside leg back a little to shift the horses weight over, and free up the outside leg to move forward, which will then have the inside front leg also pick up the correct lead.
Hard to put into words! At least I think that is what I do, but one of my horses is very confused with canter leads, so maybe I am doing something wrong.
And don't we lift up one shoulder with the rein also?
If we don't start the lead correctly in the rear, we won't be correct in front.
Christos,
Your comments above are what I need to remember as the same horse I mention above really likes to veer to the outside when we canter on a circle. I have found that we do best when I quit "trying" to do everything and just sit there.
(think I am going to make a Christos file, and a Dennis file to keep track of training advice. Will really have my husband wondering, lol!) |
Ann
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 897
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 10:05 am: | |
Angie,not sure what you mean by veer to the outside.. maybe you can try cantering in a shoulder fore to help correct this and help him to become straight on the circle..?
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 1355
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 10:07 am: | |
Dennis,
You can teach the maneuver with any cue you want to use . . . I love one of the illustrations I heard from John Lyons years ago . . . If you want to cue a horse to step over by pinching the tip of his ear, then you can teach that as the cue . . . As long as we release pressure when the horse starts to give in the direction we want, then we can teach that cue, and I know that this isn't news to you.
As I was growing up, I read lots of WESTERN HORSEMAN magazines and remember reading that to get a horse to canter on a particular lead, I was supposed to turn the horse's head to the outside and cue with the inside leg . . . This was to "open up the horse's shoulder" so he could take the inside lead.
When I took my first riding lesson (after 25 years of riding) I was told that public opinion was changing about canter depart, and that western riders were following more of the Classical Dressage methods which were to keep the horse's nose bent in the direction of the circle and ask for the outside hind (the "depart" leg) to step under more quickly and push off so that he can take the inside lead more smoothly.
Since moving west from the East Coast three years ago, I have seen both ways . . . which can lead to some confusion for the horses when they switch owners . . . and can lead to some confusion in the owners if they think "this stupid horse doesn't understand how to canter."
All in all, I believe that if we watch horses move naturally and freely, we will see them take the inside lead whenever they are bent that way (unless there is a mechanical or pain issue) so the asking with the outside leg with the horse's nose tipped toward the direction of the bend, is probably easier for the horse . . . but, again, it depends on how you train the horse. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 1356
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 10:32 am: | |
Oh, and P.S.:
At a certification clinic this past April in CA, this question came up . . . and the clinic instructor (who has been doing this for 30 years and does lessons and training with her husband) told me that "people are ignorant," and that turning the nose to the outside and "opening up the inside shoulder" can be appropriate at certain times (sorry, I forget what those "times" are) . . . and that we need to be able to use different cues for different effects . . . Wish I could remember the specifics, but maybe it sort of goes along with what you were saying in the post about the horse not wanting to move forward on trail . . . sort of . . . different cues for different problems. |
Kthorse
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 634
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 11:03 am: | |
That makes me think back. I do the aids as Christos says. However when I was doing a dressage lesson when he was young and green. He would tip his head slightly to the outside no matter how strong an inside leg I used. This was circle work) She told me also forget the outside just passive. Then for an instant, swing my inside leg back and give him a good squeeze if that did not work a good kick till he moved his hind over which would make it also impossible to keep his head to the outside. Then instantly put your leg where its supposed to be. I asked her why the correct aids did not work and she said all horses are different and some you need to do a bit more a bit different till they get it. I only had to do this a few times till he got it but it really worked.
As for the canter departure fortunately my horse has always got it without me teaching him. However I read a good way which I have tried, and it works for a horse that has a hard time getting it or especially for a rider that tends to leen or look down in the direction of the lead you want. Not good. Simply use the opposite hand of the lead you want and reach back and touch his rump keeping reins loose and use the aids as Christos says this stops you from accidentally putting weight on the shoulder making it very hard for the horse to take the correct lead. Don't forget this is only to help you teach your horse and to stop you from using your body wrong. Once you both get the feel of it, you wont need to do it. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 1357
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 11:53 am: | |
Yikes . . . sorry . . . just read the initial post which was one of the ones I didn't receive a couple of days ago . . .
Poor horse . . . SIX OWNERS in THREE YEARS????!!!!!
No WONDER she is confused . . . especially, if every other owner did things differently . . .
Decide what you want to see and how you want to ask . . . and give the horse TIME . . . lots of TIME . . . and be patient . . . and just be consistent. You can train her to the way you want, but she may only be doing what someone else ingrained in her . . . |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 262
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 12:23 pm: | |
Hi,
As Holly said, any cue can get a horse to canter if you just teach it. What I do depends on the horse. On a very green horse that just needs canter miles, I tend to use outside leg and rein so that the horse doesn't overload the inside shoulder ("lateral aids"). I am not too concerned with leads at this point, but more concerned with balance. However, turning the head to the outside helps balance as it keeps the horse off of the inside shoulder. If the inside shoulder is overloaded, the horse will have a difficult time picking up the correct lead because green horses tend to pick up the canter with their front legs at first and will chose the lead that is best supported by the diagonal pair (in the case of an overloaded inside shoulder, the horse may choose to pick up the "wrong" lead so that its overloaded inside foreleg is supported by its outside hind leg in the second beat of the canter).
Once the horse is better balanced, I will gradually move to "diagonal aids" which is a rapid combination of outside leg followed by inside leg and rein. Outside leg asks for the canter depart to start with the outside hind leg. Inside leg in quick succession asks for the inside hind leg. Inside rein finishes the lead. It is like you as a rider are "cantering" with your own body (outside "hind" followed by inside "hind" followed by inside "front leg," which is actually your inside rein).
The other thing that is very helpful once the horse is better balanced is to time the canter aids with the horse's hind legs. I like to ask with my outside leg when the horse's outside hind leg is still weight bearing and just about to leave the ground. This does not work if the horse is still starting his canter lead from the front legs. If he is starting his canter from the front legs, it is your job to do whatever it takes to get the weight off of of his inside front leg so that he can take the correct lead. At first, that may mean overuse of the outside rein. Eventually, it will become the horse's bend around your inside leg that correctly unloads the weight on the inside shoulder.
Leg yields, circle spirals, serpentines, circles and shoulder fore on a long rein at the walk and with "age appropriate" rein contact at the trot will all help your horse learn to get his weight off of his inside foreleg for the more advanced canter departs. Once he is correctly bent around your inside leg, you can move on to diagonal aids which are just a more advanced way to get the weight off of his inside shoulder so he is free to canter on the correct lead. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1333
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 1:43 pm: | |
The reason to teach canter departs with the inside leg firmly on the girth and the outside leg a tiny bit behind is that we want a straight, smooth and balanced transition and a correct canter from the first canter step.
Crookedness is not always apparent in the circle, but becomes very obvious on cantering straight lines.
Most horses prefer to canter straight lines with their head to their left and their hindquarters to the right, popping their right shoulder. The horse positions itself at an angle to the direction he travels, crooked.
We correct crookedness by introducing bend. If we ask for no bend, the horse will choose the one that he finds suitable at the moment. So even on straight lines, let's say on left canter, we ask for a very slight bend to the left.
The inside leg on the girth and inside seatbone is what produces and maintains bend.
So with the horse bent correctly, we ask for a canter depart with our inside leg and inside seatbone. The horse pushes with his outside hind to accelerate forward, then flexes the inside hind and puts it correctly under his body to balance his weight.
Truly, this is what happens with a trained horse that will maintain bend around the inside leg without support. The green horse, however, usually has no desire to chip in some extra work in order to make our ride smoother. He will not flex his inside hind and carry weight with it. He will let his hindquarters drift to the outside instead, become crooked and push with both hind legs.
We prevent this by sliding our outside leg a bit backwards. The horse knows from his introduction to leg cues that this means he should bring his hindquarters in. If he resists, we tap the inside hind with the whip. Remember, though he objects bringing his hindquarters in, it is the lack of flexion and activity of the inside hind that causes the problem, so that's what we want to correct. The cause, not the symptom.
Of course, with a horse that will accept and maintain a correct bend naturally, you can teach canter departs any way you want.
As the horse's training advances, many years later, inside seatbone alone will be enough to produce and maintain bend, and just sitting on the other seatbone will produce a beautiful flying change.
We reach that by increasing the horse's proficiency with systematic work, so slowly but surely he does not need our legs supporting him and pushing him here and there. |
Dove2
Member
Username: Dove2
Post Number: 72
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 1:53 pm: | |
Thanks, everyone. This has been a fascinating discussion of our problem at the canter. What sort of techniques apply when the horse *trots* with her head facing outside, and the rider posting? |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1334
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 2:10 pm: | |
Opening up, unloading etc the inside shoulder by turning the horse's head to the outside ?
Sorry, the people who told you this are horribly misinformed.
Turning the horse's head to the outside throws his weight through the inside shoulder and the horse has to step in with the inside fore to catch it. This is loading the shoulder, not unloading it, and forcing the horse to initiate canter with the inside fore.
It is a trick that works, but not one that promotes balance and coordination.
Common stunt work: You have to turn the horse's head to the outside to throw him down. No way you can throw him if he's bent correctly. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1335
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 2:18 pm: | |
Same problem, Dove2, same technique.
Enforce inside aids, ie inside leg, inside rein. Insist that the inside hind flexes and steps under, use the whip if it doesn't. |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 263
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 3:10 pm: | |
Yes Christos, outside rein for an already overloaded shoulder does sound awful, is incorrect and isn't the best thing to do over the long term as it tends to "jackknife" the horse, causing overbending in the neck, a crooked body, and the exact overloading the shoulder we all want to avoid. I agree with you, but when it comes to the supergreenies, I find that ridiculously exaggerated, wide open rein aids are the best tool available to show a horse where you want it to go until the horse understands the finer points of moving away from the leg and bend.
First things first, the horse needs to learn to move away from the leg. The bend comes later. Teaching bend can be done on the ground by pushing horse over with your hands, making sure your hands are in the exact spot you will be visiting later with your legs. Next, I like to face a horse toward a wall and ask for a 1/4 turn on the forehand, moving the horse away from my leg and using the wall as a tool so I don't have to pull back on the reins quite so much. Next, I try leg yields/sidepasses against the wall, again with horse facing the wall so the wall becomes a tool and my rein aids can stay relatively soft.
Once the horse understands that my leg at the girth along with "allowing" hips means go forward and my leg slightly behind the girth with "non-allowing" hips means go sideways, I make things more subtle by doing what Shelley does - making my leg into a pole around which the horse must bend.
Next, I try circles where I ask the horse to yield from my inside leg (spiral out/make the circle bigger) and then yield from my outside leg (spiral in/make the circle smaller). After a while, the horse starts to understand the concept of bending around the "inside leg" and all turns become easier. If at any point the horse forgets and lays down on his inside shoulder, I simply half halt and request one or two brief steps of leg yield away from the loaded shoulder to remind him not to lay down on my leg. Over time, they get it.
PS - Flying changes from the weight of your seatbones alone is a feat of accomplishment that is years away from these humble beginnings! |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 264
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 3:39 pm: | |
PS - I know I will be tarred and feathered for saying this because it is the antithesis of classical dressage. However, if I train a horse who is very hard mouthed and heavy shouldered and who just WON'T bend around my inside leg due to years of doing this bad habit, I will use an indirect rein to support my inside leg for a few days until the horse gets the idea. Once the horse gets the idea, I will go back to the more correct direct reins and inside leg/outside rein connection.
The chief argument against using indirect rein to bend a horse is that you are breaking the all important connection between hind legs, back, withers, neck and mouth and are intentionally making the horse crooked. This is why I only use this method briefly as a training tool, only on spoiled horses, only to teach them to get off the inside shoulder, and only on horses that are so unbalanced as to feel they are literally going to lay down on me. I wouldn't use it on a green horse unless the leaning has already become an ingrained habit, but wanted to mention it as a tool.
OK, I'm ready. My flame suit is on!  |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 1358
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 3:54 pm: | |
No flame throwing from this contingency, Debbie.
There are no "RIGHT" ways with horses or students . . . In good teaching we are always seeking to improve our own methods and continually looking for the easiest way for the STUDENT to understand what it is we are trying to teach . . . and we are looking for the way to make the learning experience the most enjoyable (and with horses . . . the most safe). All learning doesn't have to be "touchy-feely," and good work is just that . . . W-O-R-K . . . but we always should maintain the best interests of our students at heart . . . In our striving to help them be the best they can be, we experience being the best WE can be . . . so everyone is a winner . . . and that's the aim. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1336
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 5:13 pm: | |
It's no war of Schools, Debbie, we're just comparing notes.
Each and every one of us has his methods, likes and dislikes, for the good reason of serving his own particular situation. No universal right or wrong.
I am only saying that turning the horse's head to the outside, especially on a young horse careening in a canter circle, throws him seriously out of balance and makes him depend totally on the inside fore to prevent falling.
If that leg gives, slips or stumbles, he'll certainly fall on his side.
This is not the case when he is bent to the inside. |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 265
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 5:24 pm: | |
Christos,
While I agree in theory, using direct inside rein on a horse who is already leaning to the inside just makes them cut the turn all the faster, whether you are "making a post" with your inside leg or not. It takes time and patience, and sometimes open outside rein to lead the horse the way it needs to go while it is still learning what inside leg means.
The indirect rein, on the other hand, is no more than a shortcut to teach a horse to unlock the inside shoulder quickly. Actually, it is a technique hunter riders use regularly in place of what I consider to be correct bending. Even George Morris advocates the use of indirect rein to get a horse off the inside shoulder! And it is not just a training phase with the hunters, either. It is a way of life all the way through the rated shows. It is not correct flatwork, but then again these people are running and jumping and just want a quick fix on the flat so they can get on to the fun of jumping. |
Erika L
Member
Username: Erika
Post Number: 367
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 22, 2006 - 3:44 pm: | |
If the horse trips, why don't you just pull him back up with your reins |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 223
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 22, 2006 - 4:34 pm: | |
Nice timing Erika !! Got a good laugh myself |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1337
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 22, 2006 - 6:00 pm: | |
Erika, supporting a stumbling horse's sinking head and pulling his head up with the reins are two different things. I never suggested that the latter is possible or advisable.
Twisting and ridiculing my words is cheap. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 1360
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 22, 2006 - 6:19 pm: | |
Christos, please don't take offense. A sense of humor is a very valuable thing when discussing training methods and when there is such a varied group of people doing the discussing . . . and humor will keep the peace in relationships, both horse and human, better than anything I can think of. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 1361
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 22, 2006 - 6:54 pm: | |
And, Erika, your quip really was quite clever . . . even my husband got a chuckle . . . and for the record, the sparring between you and Christos kept us quite entertained during the discussion about stumbling down hills.
As a recovering perfectionist, I can say that I have found a lot of freedom and humor in not taking myself as seriously as I used to do . . . life is too short . . . |
Kthorse
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 638
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 22, 2006 - 6:55 pm: | |
Christos . I agree with your methods. I was told to use the method at one stage that Debbie says. It did not work for me. Not saying anything is right or wrong. By the way I got to ride my horse for the first time in a few weeks just at a walk and we did a steep incline (thats all we have.) And supporting him with the rein did help. He did not stumble, but he did seem to appreciate the help. So I take back what I said that a loose rein is the way to go. |
Erika L
Member
Username: Erika
Post Number: 368
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 22, 2006 - 7:21 pm: | |
Oh no, Christos! No offense intended! Just my feeble attempt at humor after our in-depth physics debate.
If I had said it in person, it would have come with a little poke in the ribs and a wink... |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1338
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 23, 2006 - 5:52 am: | |
No offense taken, then. But really, I find nothing funny or light with the subject of a horse falling on a rider.
There was no physics debate, Erika, you are trying to understand and describe the horse with terms of static balance alone. This is not possible. Even the standing horse is not inanimate and rigid, it is a system of incredibly complicated 3-D dynamics.
Again, understanding, correcting and supporting a horse that is losing his balance can save you (and the horse) from fatal injury. This is no light matter. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1339
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 23, 2006 - 6:01 am: | |
Katrina, be careful that you're not holding his head all the time, it may teach him to lean on the bit.
Frequent half halts to adjust his speed and balance is all you need.
Again, if he stumbles, lean back and hold those reins firmly so he can lean on the bit for support. |
Kthorse
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 639
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 23, 2006 - 6:49 am: |
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