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Discussion on Shoulder dropping on canter
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Teresa A
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 4, 1999 - 9:08 am: |   |
Hi everyone,
As usual I'm looking for advice. when cantering on the left lead my horse really wants to drop his shoulder to the inside, and, if I let him, actually counter canter around the turns. He'll also do this on the lunge, during free-lunging and with the side reins. I've been tackling this by working on his bending around the turns (inside leg pushing towards firm outside leg, maintaining good rein contact on the outside and slightly flexing on the inside). Any comments and/or suggestions would be more than welcome. the coach I had lined up had to go and have a baby so I'm all alone here *sigh*.
thanks in advance
Teresa |
Chris Mills
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 4, 1999 - 10:39 am: | |
Teresa,
I would try working the canter on 20 m circles, first. They are less tight turns than in the corners.
Then I would focus on getting him straight. Many horses have a perceived good and bad side. The bad side lacks bending and feels heavy. The good side feels almost too soft and you think you have a bend. Usually, it isn't through the body, just the neck, so it is a false sense of goodness.
In any case, the focus should be on getting the horse traveling fairly straight with a bend through the body ...
Now, the horse is narrower in the front than the back. So, the feel of "straightness" has to be developed by the rider. Checks I use are include - are my seat bones even in the saddle? leg draped long, straight? posture even, not collapsed? eyes up, head (20 lbs!) supported by neck? do the reins feel equal in my hands? do they have contact (dressage thing) and are they quiet? Then I check the horse - is the outside shoulder bulging? are the hips in/out? is he hanging/avoiding a rein? is he moving forward, relaxed? does he respond to a seat/leg aid?
At this point, you can work on positioning your horse to the inside. This is developed over time, as the inside hind leg has to develop strength. Working at a trot to do things like shoulder fore (a slight positioning in, no shoulder in), leg yields, correct circles, etc. will help to build strength. As he gets stronger, he will be less likely to protect his inside hind and more able to bend through the body at the canter in the direction you choose.
A bulging outside shoulder is a give away that the bend is false - and the hips are usually swinging the other way. I usually try to reposition the shoulders in front of the hind, using the aids on the same side as the bulge - seat, leg, perhaps rein. At first, this can be a very frequent correction. Be sure your other rein supports the correct bend you want.
Turns on the forehand and hindquarters help develop a sense of feel for repositioning the front or hind while working.
Hill work at the walk and trot, trotting over ground poles also help develop strength behind.
There are a lot of nitty details ... one of my newest references that I really like is by Walter Zettl and called Dressage in Harmony (just published by half halt press). Rather than just talk about the finished product and how it should feel, Walter gives you a sense of 1)it takes time, 2)you have to show the horse what you want, perhaps with some exaggerated aids, etc. until he understands and is able to respond physically, and 3) if you are having xyz fault it is probably because ...
He has a long discussion about stiff vs. overly soft sidedness, too.
Interestingly, there is an "old horseman's tale" that the side the mane drapes on naturally indicates the "too soft" side. Or maybe I have it backwards, GRIN. I've not found it to be true, but other people swear by it.
Good luck. Hope this makes sense. |
ida | | Posted on Friday, Jun 4, 1999 - 12:25 pm: | |
Teresa: I agree with all of Chris's sugestions, espcially on the lateral work suggestion. Leg yielding will be something you can do a lot and try to keep him straight so he learns to balance on momentum from the sides and forward. Also I would ease up on the reins so he is not using your hand to balance; I find if you let him have the reins during the tuning exercise, the contact you give latter on will be much more effective because the contact will be the additional aid instead of something that is always there.
Also check his conformation. My horse has one front leg longer so he tends to pick up the wrong lead (when he has to lead with the shorter leg) and he feels he is dropping his shoulders when leading with the shorter leg. (and people who rode him thinks he's lame; of course I don'f feel a thing cuz I'm so used to him.) It took us a while to figure that out although I always know he have one shoulder a tiny bit higher than the other side. (and some vets and farriers actually think he has lameness problems but it turns out it's just conformation). It could be something like that.
Also check how his hoofs are trimmed and if his feet are balanced. So horses show all kinds of weird signs when trimmed incorrectly like cross firing, dropping hind; I've even seen horses tip over at a canter!
Ida |
Teresa A
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 5, 1999 - 8:31 am: | |
Thanks Chis and Ida,
all very good suggestions. yes he does have a good and bad side but I'm very aware of the difference between the "true" bend and the "false" (spent a long time working on it :}). I think your hyp. that he's trying to compensate for the inside hind is a very good one because (in retrospect) what he's trying to do is actually counter canter. While I do do some circle work I tend to stay large as I don't want to overtax his joints too much at this early stage. Last night I did the following: cantered large, 20m circle at one end, back to rail all the way around 20m circle at the other end, all the way round, 20 m circle in the center, etc.,. It appeared to help him balance and as long as I kept my leg on the inside he didn't drop in as much.
I will try the leg yields and shoulder in, but I was hoping to wait a bit until I could have someone on the ground watching what he was doing when we began these exercises.
As you say, patience is the key and it is nice to have him at the point where we're trying to refine his way of going after everything else we had to work through.
thanks a lot,
Teresa |
Chris Mills
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 7, 1999 - 11:40 am: | |
Teresa,
Max Gawyler (sp?) suggests posting on the "wrong" diagonal to help activate the inside hind. I'd probably not do it all the time, but might alternate with one circle "correct diagonal" and one "other diagonal" and see if this gave me an edge.
Good Luck. |
Marlane | | Posted on Monday, Jun 7, 1999 - 8:04 pm: | |
If after several weeks your horse is still having trouble cantering on the left lead,then something could be wrong physically.Somtimes the muscles on the right quarters and back are tight,or the right hind leg is painful.This is the leg that the horse uses to push off into the canter with when going to the left.An equine massage therapist would be able to evaluate your horse or a chiropracter.It is unusual for a horse not to pick up the correct lead on the longe,so I would suspect soreness somewhere. |
Teresa A
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 7, 1999 - 9:21 pm: | |
Hi Marlane,
It's nice to hear from you again! I'm sorry if I wasn't clear earlier but my horse is picking up the correct lead (i.e., the one I asked for) but he tries to drop his inside shoulder, and turn his head to the outside. I did consider soreness but I can find no tender spots. My current theory is that it's a balance difficulty and perhaps a preference for the other lead, because of his "greenness".
thanks
Teresa |
Marlane | | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 8, 1999 - 7:31 pm: | |
Hi Teresa,thanks for the feedback.All I know is that with my horses I felt them and poked and prodded all over their bods and could find nothing.When I had them checked out by a chiropracter he found many areas that were extremly sore.So I am not putting down where you are at now,I am sharing my experience,as my horses had a great many problems with leads among other things, that were improved greatly after body work was done,that also included stretching and massage. |
Teresa A
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 8, 1999 - 9:13 pm: | |
Hi Marlane,
I know that you weren't implying anything negative in your comments. The difficulty is that there are not any horse chiros or massage experts in our area.
thanks
Teresa |
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