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Lorri Weaver (Lawea)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 5, 2001 - 2:47 pm: |   |
Hi, I am considering the purchase of a mare that has been trained to work cattle. She has an awesome handle and is very sensitive to the leg-she'll turn out from under you if you are not careful. She seems very intelligent and willing-only problem is that she seems to rely on the tie down and really gets her head up there when it is removed. I'd like to cure her of this crutch, but would really appreciate some advise. My own inclination is that this will take a while and I will begin by riding her in a snaffle and perhaps training fork or draw reins-gently asking her to drop her head-rewarding as she responds, building from the walk to the trot and so on. In the mean time, will it be detrimental to ride her with the tie down during non-training periods, or should I try to go cold turkey??
I've started a few from scratch and retrained other behaviors, but this is the first time I've worked on losing a tie-down.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Lorri |
Lorrie Hutchens-Grover
Member
Username: Lorrieg
Post Number: 40
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 13, 2004 - 5:07 pm: | |
I see that no one responded to this post from some time ago but was wondering if anyone had any suggestions now as this is something that I am facing currently.
What is a good method for weaning a horse previously used for roping from the tiedown?
Thanks in advance,
Lorrie(different from Lorri) |
Alden Chamberlain
Member
Username: Alden
Post Number: 118
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 13, 2004 - 9:20 pm: | |
Lorrie,
I'll try and explain a pretty easy method to soften a horse on the bit, and it is all done from the ground. You'll need a horse that moves forward on command easily (very important), a loose ring snaffle, about 25ft of hard twist rope and a round pen.
Adjust the snaffle the same as if you were riding the horse. Take the hard twist and pass one end through a ring of the snaffle then go over the poll and down through the other ring. Adjust the rope so you have an even amount on each side to the bit. Now pass both ends between the front legs, then run one end around each side of the horse's barrel and over the withers, then wrap them together rather than tying. So you have a rope over the poll, passing through the bit rings, going between the front legs and ending wrapped over the withers.
At first adjust the rope so it is very loose when the horses head is up high. Now when you work the horse in a circle they will fell pressure on the poll when the throw their head up. There is also very slight pull, on the one side of the bit then the other, as the front legs move. Most horses learn very quickly to lower their heads, then follow the slight movement of the bit back and forth.
Once the horse will work with the rope loose and a soft poll, then I use Clinton Anderson's softening exercises from the saddle to finish the job. The best part of this is you can work a horse that is dangerous without getting in the saddle and still teach them how to carry the bit and their heads.
BEAWARE, many horses will rear and some bad one may flip over if the rope is too tight. Start very loose and work them into it.
Good day,
Alden |
Redmare
Member
Username: Redmare
Post Number: 19
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 13, 2004 - 9:43 pm: | |
Hi Lorrie-
"Stargazing" is common even in non-roping horses, and it is curable. First (as always) you want to check with a vet/chiro/massage person to rule out/treat any medical conditions. Like a person who drives or sits at a desk in front of a computer for 8 hours a day, an upheaded horse will kind of get stuck in that position. Horses who have been worked in head-lowering rigs often get more and more stiff because they are fighting against the pressure instead of softening.
A good safe place to start is on a halter and lead. I teach all my horses to lower their head by applying pressure on the halter, and releasing-clicking-rewarding when they do. This can take some time with an upheaded horse, as they are a)used to pushing against pressure or b)have neck pain which makes head lowering difficult. When the horse understands this exercise, I put it on a verbal cue. I then start doing small lunge circles 10 feet or so, keeping it calm, and asking for head down first at the walk, then jog (can't really canter on such a small circle). I then make the circle larger and, when the horse clearly gets the exercise and offers head down without my having to ask, I remove the halter and free lunge. This is a really awesome place to be, as the horse learns to work out physical issues on its own.
I had a major breakthrough with a TB mare recently who was so upheaded she was developing a major ewe neck and was impossible to ride. I went through all the steps I described above and she suddenly "got it," offering head down like it was the most fun thing in the world! I soon discovered, by letting her work loose, that something was catching in her neck/shoulder area. She knew it too, and clearly wanted to work past it. When she tried to lower her head at canter, she would hit the sticky spot, the head would shoot back up again and she would strike out with her hind legs and switch her tail. I'll be damned if she didn't keep trying, on her own, till she worked it out. I was cheering when she finally cantered an entire lap with her nose on the ground! |
Lorrie Hutchens-Grover
Member
Username: Lorrieg
Post Number: 41
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 13, 2004 - 10:47 pm: | |
Hi Alden & Redmare,
Thank you for both of your suggestions!
Redmare, I have already started with some of the exercises that you mentioned by applying pressure to the poll and releasing as soon as the horse gives, I have also added a verbal command of "relax" which is actually going great considering we have only had two sessions and this gelding who was previously making my arm ache waiting for a give is now giving to the slightest pressure!
I loved your story about the TB who tried so hard and finally got it, GOOD GIRL!
Alden, I read your profile and loved your personal quote of "Ground Work, Ground Work, Ground Work!" That has definitely become mine as well with each day that I am blessed to be around horses. The benefits are so clearly seen when compared to horses who have not had good ground work.
I am however a little confused about the wrap over the withers, do you mean just a simple twisting of the ropes, or something else. I understood everything else and would like to give it a try, but was just a little confused with the wrap part.
I am however very familiar with Clinton Andersons softening exercises as I am a huge fan and have experienced first hand the benefits of his wonderful training techniques.
If you would please help me to understand a little better I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks to both of you for your prompt responses!
Take care,
Lorrie |
Redmare
Member
Username: Redmare
Post Number: 20
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 - 9:33 am: | |
Sounds great Lorrie! Since you're putting head down on a verbal cue you'll be able to move on to the lunging exercises with no trouble.
With the TB I mentioned, the exercises took months because she had other issues (handled very little in her life). If you work with your horse often, each stage should take a week or two. If you find things falling apart, step back to previous stage.
Look forward to hearing about your progress! |
Debbie E
Member
Username: Deggert
Post Number: 83
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 - 2:36 pm: | |
Lorrie
I spoke with my Roper buddies here at work, although I had my own opinion I thought I would ask someone who has roped for years and is quite good. First, he said why ropers use tiedowns. I will say good ropers use tie downs on horses even though they could rope without them because when they are roping for thousand of dollars on one swing, you don't want the horse to suddenly bring his head up into your rope. Calf horses really need the support when they stop as hard as they do. That said, he suggested a snaffle with a running martingale adjusted correctly and identifying everytime she makes an effort to give to pressure. Patience. I think you are on the right track with your training ideas, I just wouldn't put her back in the tie down at all.
Good luck, Debbie |
Alden Chamberlain
Member
Username: Alden
Post Number: 119
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 - 2:40 pm: | |
Lorrie,
By wrapped I mean like the first part of a square knot, but just keep wrapping rather than tying the second part. The reason is so it will slip if the horse panics and pulls too hard. On horses that have learned to drop their heads and I'm not worried about rearing I do tie a square knot.
Another way to teach a horse to lower their head is to use a rope halter and a lead line. Hold the lead line so the loop just touching the ground. Then take your toe and lightly step on the loop, I feel the horse gets a quicker reward this way. Once they are following pressure from the halter I then teach them to do the same with a touch over the poll. Or better yet teach them to lower their head with a touch just in front of their withers, then you can lower the head from the saddle.
Good day,
Alden |
Lorrie Hutchens-Grover
Member
Username: Lorrieg
Post Number: 43
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 15, 2004 - 3:42 pm: | |
Thanks Debbie and Alden,
Debbie, I will probably try out the running martingale idea with a snaffle when it comes time and if I need to.
For right now we are doing lots and lots of ground work and working on lowering the head to a touch and verbal cue starting at the poll and working my way further and further down the neck until I can get a release and lowering from the withers eventually.
So good idea Alden , it's going very well so far in that I am getting nice lowering action already from the middle of the neck which is great progress for this gelding who wouldn't budge just 5 days ago!
Take care,
Lorrie |
