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Discussion on New Farrier, Wooden Shoes, Hoof Jack, ?'s, and Observations | |
Author | Message |
Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Monday, Feb 19, 2007 - 7:55 pm: Today I had a new farrier who was recommended by my regular guy who moved out of state. And as some of you know, I have been looking into doing my own trimming and reading up on "natural trim", "mustang trim" whatever name you may call it.One good thing I noticed today was that my horses were very good for this guy. (They weren't terrible for the previous guy really) I believe it was a direct result of the Hoof Jack being used. A couple of my horses never liked their front feet at the angle needed to have it between someone's knees. Another one always needed to lean against the wall and wasn't good for the previous guy. She was very comfortable also. The Hoof Jack was kept in the lowest setting for 15 feet, number 16, on my biggest guy with the short attention span, needed it put up for a front foot. Question: This guy likes to cut along side the frog; says you need to be able to get in there to clean it out good in that crevice there. (sorry, drawing a blank on all terms here, just getting over being sick) 2 of my horses have really got thick, spread out frogs and I thought they should be left alone. Expecially on the flat footed horse. ??? He also said the back hooves are done in such a way so they don't hit the belly when the horse runs. Apparently they are meant to toe out a little bit behind. Hmmmmmm.......... As for landing, he said watching movement in very slow motion they show that a horse lands first in front of his heel (heel buttress?) then the back of the heel more, then the toe. Or then breaks over. Now, forgive me here if this is all old news; I am still at the stage of not even knowing what questions to ask! But I thought a horse had to land heel first. This is for those of you dealing with founder: Apparently some one is putting wood shoes on foundered horses. Cutting the heal down to eliminate the pain, then screwing on some type of wood shoe with padding under the heel to ease the pain. I think the idea is that the wood has some give to it? He showed me a shoe that had flat spots on the back, says the hoof does that to the shoe because the heels are trying to expand and contract. Makes sense to my brain. It was an interesting couple of hours in the freezing barn. The best part was he said I was doing a good job keeping the hooves level (It was 18 weeks ago a farrier did them last)and as I figured the toes were a little long. I knew I was being conservative though all around. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 - 7:05 pm: I like sulcus that do not trap mud Angie.DrO |
Member: hwood |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 - 7:45 am: Angie, glad the new farrier worked out for you. What a relief to know that you can get a good farrier when you need one.I carve the sides of my horses' frogs IF they are holding dirt/manure into the hoof . . . and if there are loose pieces flapping around, I will cut or pull them off . . . that's all. As for the way the hoof lands . . . I remember always hearing that a horse should land flat . . . then, recently, have heard that a horse should land heel first. I do believe it depends on the gait as to how the hoof will land, but I'm wondering if it is correct for a hoof to hit flat, and then as the horse's weight settles onto the hoof that the pressure rolls the weight back onto the heel as the pastern flexes downward, and then the pressure "rolls" toward the front of the hoof as the horse breaks over. If so, that would explain to me why there is more breakage at the quarters and why it is important to do a good trim and round the edges of the quarters, especially, and trim them with the concavity of the sole to keep them from smashing into the ground as they do when they are trimmied perfectly level to fit a shoe? Any of you hoof-trimming buffs have any insights? I know some of you have done some serious study of hoof-trimming methods over the years. |
Member: tuckern |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 - 10:14 am: From my studies, you should strive for a heel first landing. When the foot lands heel first the hoof capsule flexes to promote shock absorption, the circulation, and balanced wear.If the foot lands toe first, it tends to pull the toe forward so that the heels become contracted, and it causes the horse's movement to be shorter because the legs are stabbing the ground. I've been trimming my own horse's feet for about 11 months now, and I've noticed that once my horses were landing heel first, they started moving better. And, more movement promotes more healthy growth, which promotes more movement, and so on. I've still got a ways to go because she had severely contracted heels and long toes, but her feet are tougher than they've ever been, and I have no problems taking her on rocky mountain trails barefoot. Nicole |
Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Thursday, Feb 22, 2007 - 9:22 am: Thanks Holly and Nicole. I am frazzled here, so nothing new on my end. Getting new email, new high speed internet,(YIPPY YAY!!) and tons of running to do, plus was sick last week. Anyhow, what you both said makes sense. Perhaps that is what the farrier meant, the heel lands slightly first, then the weight settles, etc. Makes sense to me.I did notice all the toes are about 3.5" long...have to study that yet. Or was it less? At any rate, they were all the same length, and longer than I thought. The horses are all moving great, and I did compare the feet he did to the many pictures I've been collecting on the Barefoot Trims, and looks good to me! |
Member: gailkin |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 - 8:15 pm: Hi Angie,I'm glad you started a new post because it can be really overwhelming when you are trying to trim your own horses. I have been doing it for about 4 years now and made lots of mistakes which I will gladly share. My older horse had severly underrun heels, long toes, forged, had very distorted coronet bands, etc. and none of the six shoers I had helped at all. My barefoot youngster had large flares and his walls would crack and split in about 30 places the day of his trim by a farrier! When I started there was very little info around. Now there is lots of good stuff. Besides Pete Ramey's articles which are quite advanced on www.hoofrehab.com, there are two good basic sites, www.ironfreehoof.com and www.barefoothorse.com with lots of pictures and explanations about anatomy, trimming, hoof problems, etc. If you are doing your own feet, get a good stand like the HoofJack. I tried rocks, etc., but a stand makes your life a lot easier. You will also need a rasp. I tried to shorten my long toed horse by taking off some of his toe from underneath. WRONG. That only removes the hoof callous. It is much better to only trim from the top by taking off any flares from the bottom 1/3 and then doing a good mustang roll to relieve the pressure on the walls. If you have detached laminae like mine did, the walls offer no support anyway. I took several trimming classes from several people. As I learned more I did not agree with everything each of them said. After lots of reading and studying, I do not trim the sole for concavity at all or around the frog apex or to the clean dirt line. I also leave the bars alone. As for the frog, I had a hot shot expert recommended from a trained Ramey shoer do my horses. He removed the excess unattached wall (good) but trimmed the frog at an angle toward the middle of the frog (bad). My horses had rocks in their feet every day until the frog calloused over again. You want a calloused frog, a calloused sole and good concavity. You cannot carve concavity into a sole. It develops as the sole compresses, hardens and builds support under P3. Do not let your trimmer cut the live sole; dead flaky stuff is okay to remove. You can tell how much sole your horse has by reading the articles on Ramey's website. Keep the heels short. Ramey had a good article on how to tell how short--about 1/16 inch above the live sole at the heel buttress. If the heels aren't short enough, you may have to take them down gradually. My youngster grows lots of heel and they sometimes get away from me not allowing him enough frog pressure. He also has uneven rear feet that grow longer on the inside. Ramey has a good article that explains why that happens to some horses who trot a lot as their lateral cartilages grow denser on the inside from all that work. He recommends not trying to take it down as it will only reappear (mine did). It is better to just do a really good roll on the inside part and the horse will adjust to what he needs. The other error I did was fine tuning the sole balance. If I saw a slight rise, I would rasp it off. I now think this is bad and caused my older horse to be sensitive to rocks much longer than he needed to be. Ramey suggests that these areas may be where the sole wants to end up. Just leave them and check next time. If it is not pressuring the coronet, it may be fine. The bottom line is less is often more. Some of the older trimmers have been doing it their way for a long time. The horses may be okay, but may never be a sound as they could be. Even a couple of rasp strokes on a frog or sole callous can cause the horse to be sore. You want a really healthy frog and heel so that the horse will land there. If he is sore, he will land toe first and will never improve in his soundness. My older guy is finally sound on all surfaces, has lovely short toes, great frogs, but is still working on getting enough concavity and sole in the front. My young guy's feet are great. I travel for hours on very rocky ground with no problems except trying to get him to slow down. He hates to walk. Check the website on ironfreehoof. She has lots of pictures of flat feet, flat frogs, healthy and unhealthy hoof bulbs, etc. It is really instructional and easy to understand. Make sure you read all the articles under trimming. If I were you I would not let the farrier trim the sole around the frog, but you can remove loose flaps of frog or diseased frog if it is thrushy. You might read about different horsekeeping ideas to help your horses improve their feet. I put gravel around the stall area and it has really worked for me. Try to trim every other week or so if you have problems, or at least every 3 weeks if all feet are good. Once the horse needs a trim it has already done damage to the hoof and you don't really make a lot of progress. If a horse has been in shoes for a long time or shod before 5, it may not have well developed lateral cartilages and digital cushions. These will develop with lots of movement and good trimming. Again, the ironfreehoof site has lots of pictures of what those things are (it took me a long time to figure it out). I hope you can find someone else to discuss barefoot stuff with and help with problems. One of my friends is now trimming other horses. She just got a client with 4 lame horses and managed to keep the one eventing horse from being nerved. They had tried all the other shots, shoeing, etc. to no avail. He is already sounder with the shoes off and a good trim and now landing heel first (it was toe first in shoes). The pregnant mare was laminetic and a different barefoot shoer (who trims bars, sole and frogs) trimmed her every week and made her even lamer so she is back in shoes. After she has her baby, they are pulling the shoes and letting my friend work on her. Just don't make the mistake of taking a newly barefoot horse out on long rocky rides right away. Going barefoot is a process and it varies for every horse and what they need to make the transition successful. They should not be in pain after a trim. Let us know if you have any questions that you can't seem to find the answers to. It is really wonderful to see a sore, problem footed horse become a sound, comfortable mover. Holly, you asked about the landing. Flat is better than toe first, but heel first is the goal. It causes the hoof to dissipate the concussion better and aids breakover. Ramey has some good discussions on this topic. I have gone back and forth about relieving the quarters. First I wasn't and now I am just slightly because Ramey says the hoof needs to flex sideways as well as front to back. Since I have been trimming my own horses, I have had no chips or cracks or quarter cracks in years. I never even think about such a thing anymore. Just make sure you are not trimming concavity into the sole. Let it develop naturally from a good short toe trim and good mustang roll. I bought several expensive hoof knives which are still in their boxes. A rasp will do most all of the work except for removed diseased or flaps of frog. Nicole, good work on your mare. It is wonderful to see the back of the hoof simply open up especially on a young horse, it can happen in a week. Their balance improves so much without shoes and their whole way of going is so much more fluid. We are taking a young dressage horse barefoot next week. It sometimes takes people quite a while to really think about all the info there is to absorb about going barefoot. Gail |