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Discussion on Foal with high white blood count | |
Author | Message |
Member: Jebe |
Posted on Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 - 7:32 pm: My colt was born on March 15, 2003 with a very normal delivery. He began breathing on his own very quickly. It was not that cold here in Florida, but the colt kept shivering and quivering. I kept drying him with towels and trying to keep him warm. After several meger attempts to get up and almost three hours had passed without him succeeding, I called my vet. He had us physically pick up the foal to help it nurse. We did this every 2-3 hours for 36 hours. He then began to get up somewhat by himself, but his legs seemed like peg legs. I rubbed and massaged his legs, kept helping him, supplementing him with a bottle, etc.. but he continued to be weak. His legs became more and more flexible as he was moving more. The vet pulled bloodwork and everything came back normal except being slightly anemic and the liver function test came back on the high end of normal. He was definitely weak and sick, but since his temp was only 102 and everything came back normal he did not put him on antibiotics. His white blood count came back normal. That night he took a turn for the worst and his fever shot up to 104.5. They started him on genticen and ampicillin. The next morning his fever was down to 101.8 so they felt he would make a good recovery. He no longer acted like a dummy foal and seemed to be nursing well. We took him to the vet's clinic as he needed two iv shots morning and night. His white blood count was 15,000. He was suppose to come home Monday but his white blood count was still high at 13,000. His temperature was only 100.2. They changed him to naxcel to give his liver and kidneys a break and they felt it would bring him the rest of the way to normal. His temperature shot up again. They felt he would come home today after 11 days at the clinic and 13 days old, but instead his white blood count had shot up to 16,500. All organ functions came back normal again with the liver function on the high normal range. They are putting him back on the original antibiotic combination. Is there any test available to isolate the type of bacteria he is fighting? They said the bacteria is not isolated in any one place they can pinpoint. Is there any thing else we can do? |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2003 - 7:58 am: This is most likely is a septicemia: an infection in the blood. To understand this condition better study our article, » Equine Diseases » Foal Diseases » Foal Septicemia: Gram Negative Blood Infections.I would like to address monitoring progress by studying WBC counts. This is very difficult because many factors effect this number. A high count is not always a bad sign and a normal count is not always a sign things are well. However a low count with a left shift is always bad however. Infection stimulates WBC mobilization and production. It also uses them up quicker. Following control of the infection the number may shoot up because of the increased production and decreased usage. Lack of control of the infection may cause the number to DrOp (increase usage and depletion of reserves) into the normal range. You can get some idea of overusage and lack of control f he infection by looking at the morphology (age and condition) of the neutrophils however. Young and degenerate neutrophils is called a left shift and indicative of the infection overcoming the immune system. Most important in monitoring is the physical exam and the mental status of the foal. DrO |
Member: Jebe |
Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2003 - 8:52 pm: Thank you Dr. O for your response. The vet decided today to do a plasma transfusion to help give him a boost to overcome the bacteria. My foal is alert, nursing, and has a temp of 101.8. Your explanation of the WBC test help me understand what is taking place. They did not release him from the clinic Monday solely on the WBC test even tough his temp was 100 and he was very active and alert. I decided to bring him home after the transfusion today and monitor him as he seems to be doing very well. I am also going to give him some equine herbal supplements to boost his immune system.Thanks, Joanie |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2003 - 9:25 pm: Unless these herbs have been specifically tested in foals, and I do not know any that have been, I would not recommend this practice.DrO |
Member: Jebe |
Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2003 - 11:33 pm: Thank you Dr. O. I will definitely look into this. They were recommended by an equine chiropractor/massage therapist. What are your thoughts on the plasma transfusion? After reading your articles in relation to septicemia it seemed that transfusions were ineffective.thanks, Joanie |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 - 6:09 am: No, if IgG is low transfusions are essential, as stated in the article. What made you think that was said?DrO |
Member: Jebe |
Posted on Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 - 8:29 am: Good Morning Dr. O.,I incorrectly said your articles. It was one of the articles of crossreference written by someone else in relation to septicemia. The colt's immunity levels were in the normal range as were all organ functions. The liver was at the top end of the normal range. If the transfusion does not bring his WBC back into normal range what else is there to do? He had the recommended antibiotic treatment for 11 days and now a transfusion. If his temp remains normal and he remains alert, if I understood your comment correctly, he does not need to go back on antibiotics as it is not unusual for the WBC count to be allevated after illness. If his temp climbs again would you recommend going back on the gentomycin/ampicillan combination or would you recommend some other course of action. As your article stated the case would be, his treatment has been quite costly and I am already up to almost $2000 in vet bills. I chose to do the treatment because he had an immediate response to the first dose of antibiotic and my vet thought in 5 days he would be completely well and could be sent home. I am now confused about the WBC test. As I stated previously the colt acted just fine but his WBC count shot up so they felt he was still sick. His temp never climbed past 101.8 once we started the antibiotic treatment. Thank you for your input. I know you can only make generic comments without being here to actually see and examine the foal but having advice helps me know what questions to ask my vet and what things to consider in the colt's treatment. Joanie |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Mar 30, 2003 - 8:52 am: I have not heard of transfusion for the purpose of adjusting WBC counts and do not believe it practical: most WBCs are not in the circulating blood but in the lymphatic system and bone marrow. A transfusion would only add a few of them compared with the total population.I treat septic foals for 3 days past the time they act healthy and normal on a physical exam. DrO |
Member: Jebe |
Posted on Sunday, Mar 30, 2003 - 2:06 pm: Thank you for your input Dr. O. I have two vets in the same office working with my colt. One thinks he has been suffering pneumonia brought on from being born a dummy foal with inactivity, the other one septicemia. We will do another WBC count on Monday and go from there. The colt so far is alert, nursing, and has a normal temp although on the high end of normal, 101.8. He has begun suffering from foal heat diarrhea or that is what my vet thinks it is which is compounding his recovery.Thanks again. Your info on the WBC has been invaluable. Joanie |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, Mar 31, 2003 - 5:16 am: You are welcome. Let us know the outcomeDrO |
Member: Jebe |
Posted on Monday, Aug 11, 2003 - 7:47 pm: Hello Dr. O,When my foal was born four months ago, one vet diagosed him as septic, the other pneumonia. After two weeks of antibiotic treatments and talking with you via the internet, I brought him home. He never seemed quite right. I told my vet every time I saw him that his digestive tract didn't seem normal as he had too much gas and diahrrea and seemed lethargic. My vet wasn't concerned so neither was I. I realize now I should have pursued this. The vet came out once a month to give foal shots, and again I questioned him about my colt. Still, no concern. He came out last Tuesday and again I told him that he had a tremendous amount of gas and just didn't act like a normal foal. This time, four months after all his antibiotics, he suggests he might have ulcers and he would have to order the medications. That afternoon I found him blown up like a balloon. I called the vet and he treated him for colic. I called him back three hours later telling him he wasn't any better and he said there was nothing he could do for him other than for me to haul him two hours away to the University of Florida vet clinic for exploratory surgery which would cost several thosands of dollars. I didn't have the money to spend. He said he could find no pocket to puncture when he was there and there was nothing else for him to do. The foal died 5 hours later. After reading your articles on ulcers it seems that they are quite common. Do some septic foals never get infection out of their system or is it that all the antibiotics cause their system to be out of wack? What red flags would a colt that had undergone heavy antibiotics, has a tremendous amount of gas, and just doesn't seem to have any zip say to you? I know this is too late for him, but maybe your answer could help me or someone else save another little guy. This one was so..special in his personality and behavior and truely was a one of kind. I feel his death was so needless since I had pursued my vet at least once a month about his health. Thanks, joanie |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 12, 2003 - 6:48 am: Hello Joanie,Bloat would not be a typical symptom of ulcers. What was the foal eating Joanie? If I had a foal with excessive gas and diarrhea following antibiotic treatment the first thing that occurs to me would be an overgrowth of abnormal gut flora. It might be hard (though not impossible) to relate this to the lack of energy and for that further diagnostics would be required, starting with a good physical exam and lab wrk up. I strongly suggest a necropsy be done so that you can find out why your foal was having this problem. DrO |
Member: Jebe |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 12, 2003 - 8:10 am: Hello Dr. O,The foal had intensive blood work ups while in the hospital and then one week later. The only thing it ever showed was an elevated white blood cell count which you said would not be unusual after being sick and on antibiotics. Before they gave the one month shots I had them do an exam as I was concerned he wasn't well and didn't want to ad any stress by giving him the shots. Again, they could find nothing wrong. I know it is impossible to diagnose via e-mail, but I appreciate your willingness to give me input. I am extremely puzzled and frustrated since for four months I kept telling my vet something was wrong and his lack of concern. Needless to say, I am changing vets. Thanks again, Joanie |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 13, 2003 - 6:13 am: Joanie, I am still interested in what was in the foals diet. Is it too late for the necropsy? The terminal event sounds like an intestinal obstruction and the question for me is whether there was a congenital reason, impaction, or displaced bowel.DrO |
Member: Jebe |
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 13, 2003 - 3:42 pm: Hello Dr. O,The foal was on a 14% alfalfa based pellet fed twice each day. I squirted 747 vitamin supplement on his feed. At night he was given grass hay and during the day he was with another foal on a small pasture planted in bahia grass. I live in Florida and this is what grows down here. The other foal that is 10 days older has had the exact same diet ever since birth with no problems whatsoever, as my previous foals have been. The mothers were on strongid c 2x until the babies were one month old and then the babies were wormed once per month with ivermectrin, except last month when the vet wormed them with something different since I complained again about his diahrrea. I also added a few weeks ago about 1/4 cup of of a high protein/mineral/vitamin mixture to the colt's feed as he didn't seem to be growing very much and I felt he needed a little more substance. The mother was from Kentucky and bred in Kentucky. I was wondering if this could have had anything to do with the mare reproductive synDrOme they were having so much trouble with last year which caused abortions. Instead of aborting, could it have caused some physical deformity to the digestive track of the little guy? It has been one week since his death so I assumed if the necropsy wasn't done immediately that it is too late. In reading many of your research articles, it seems that at the very least when I kept complaining of his diahrrea that they should have checked his stool. It appears from the articles that heavy antibiotics can cause coli or ulcers causing the diahrrea. He went from gas/diahrrea to gas/constipation and back again. When he colicked he had tremendous gas and constipation which I told my vet that morning. I realized in thinking back, that I actually started complaining about his digestive system the first week he was home from the hospital. My vet told me just to give him some yogurt. I did this and then did it occassionally later on, but I didn't see much results from it. Thanks again for your input, Joanie |
Member: Jebe |
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 13, 2003 - 3:49 pm: Dr. O,p.s. I have failed to mention that the colt had a temperature of 102.2 when we found him down the night he died. From the articles a fever is not characteristic of colic but something else triggering the colic. Thanks, Joanie |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Thursday, Aug 14, 2003 - 6:06 am: While a fever is not characteristic early in a colic it is commonly seen when it is a terminal event. The cause is the breakdown of the bowel wall integrity releasing toxins into the blood.DrO |
New Member: Rntami |
Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 4:07 pm: I have a two week old filly that is constantly straining to stool. Her mother had a prolapsed rectum and only lived for 7 days. We had them both on high dose gent and pcn for 4 days. We gave an enema on day one to the baby with good results. Her IGG levels were high so an plasma transfusion was unneccesary. She has been on unimilk since day 3 and we have placed her with a foster mare 1 week ago. The mare loves her but has not gotten a lot of milk in. The filly drinks lots of water and has been since day 3. Is there something I can give her to keep her stools softer? Any suggestions would be helpful. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 6:40 pm: If the stalls are hard Tami I would simply add more water to the current amount of milk replacer, say increase it by 25%.DrO |