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  Discussion on Selenium Toxicosis?
Author Message
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 - 7:10 am:

Dr O,
A farrier friend discovered biotin supplements a few months ago, as he had a very hard time paring our horse's hooves (I know it's not exactly so simple, but go explain to him). He had some hoof problems with his horse, and I suppose he hit the market for a supplement as soon as he left.
This morning, his girlfriend told us that their stallion is losing hair from tail and mane, for no apparent reason. He is not itchy, has no lesions/bites, and they can see no lice/ticks/eggs. Can it be that oversupplementing methionine through a biotin supplement lowered selenium needs to the extend of chronic selenium toxicosis?
I still haven't found whether they supplemented any selenium on top of the biotin/methionine, as people are sometimes embarrassed to confess what exactly they did.
As biopsies and cultures to investigate possible skin conditions are not an option around here, and our vets do not even want to hear about horses, I suggested they stop any supplements immediately and treat him with three oral doses of ivermectin, 20 days apart, just for the case of parasites causing his loss of mane and tail.
By the way, I've heard he washes this horse with laundry powder, but I really doubt this caused the problem (what do you mean how stupid we can be?)
Your thoughts and comments on this will be mostly appreciated, Doctor, he is a truly magnificent horse and I would like to help him.
Member:
Eoeo

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 - 10:02 am:

What kind of farrer is he/she that they didn't know about biotin supplements? Tell the mentally challenged person to stop the laundry detergent and get rid of any that is on the horse. It is causing his problems, dollars to donuts. If they want to bathe the horse invest in some horse products or just use water. With any product, you have to rinse completely or it will leave a residue. EO
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 - 1:27 pm:

He's a "traditional" one, LKR. No use trying to change his mind. I just want to do whatever possible for the horse, he's really worth it.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004 - 10:41 pm:

Hello Christos,
Second hand advice is tenuous enough but third hand becomes a exercise in futility but I doubt the methionine or biotin could be oversupplemented to the point of causing selenium toxicity.
DrO
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 - 8:46 am:

Doctor
With these people changing the description every five minutes, first hand seems to be no good either.
Thank you very much for your answer.
Member:
Cindylou

Posted on Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 - 7:18 am:

In Michigan- according to my vet horses test low for selenium 85% of the time- I have both horses tested every year- and they both tested a bit low last fall- so I started one small(I would guess it is about 1teaspoon/day- they are 1100 lb geldings. My concern is- after reading this- is I have one horse on farriers formula due to his poor hoof condition. His hoofs are getting much better- but now I am worried- am I overdoing it???
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 - 8:54 am:

Read my reply above Cindy.
DrO
Member:
Cindylou

Posted on Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 - 8:49 pm:

I apologize - I did read that- but I guess I have never read anything even suggesting that- I know you can overdo on selenium- although it is tough to do- I guess my question was the relationship of biotin and it lowering the "selenium needs" is there any evidence that biotin does that? I guess I should have been more specific in my post....again my aplologies....
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 - 9:41 pm:

Actually selenium toxicity is not that difficult to achieve either through exposure to selenium concentrating plants or more commonly oversupplementation. There is a narrow difference between adequate amounts and toxic amounts. However I don't know of a relationship between biotin and methionine and increased selenium toxicity. Christos do you have further information?
DrO
Member:
Christos

Posted on Friday, Feb 13, 2004 - 3:13 am:

No, Doctor, unfortunately not.
They won't cut on the supplements because now that they discovered them, they are persuaded that the horse can't actually live without them.
They won't treat with ivermectin every 20 days because they say every two months is good enough.
The local vet persuaded them to use at least some skin disinfectant proper for horses, so we wait and see.
It is very difficult to get credible information from these people. They do all kinds of silly things, then when it goes wrong they give you only the information they think is needed, half truths or downright lies. And they won't even let the vet look at the horse! How can one help such people, I do not know.
I do not believe it is likely to be selenium toxicosis from plants, we've never had an incident in the area.
From their attitude when I told them to cut any supplements for a few days, I believe they've made a guinea pig out of that horse. More so as the lady in the shop that supplies the hippoDrOme of Athens does remember some funny guys from our area buying a truck full of all the "tricks" that make race horses so shiny and powerful...


Member:
Cindylou

Posted on Friday, Feb 13, 2004 - 6:53 am:

Thank you. It was my understanding that in our area- it is difficult to get too much selenium- as it is so lacking naturally around here. Is there any way other that a blood test to identify selinium toxicity? I will also look for an article on such....
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Feb 13, 2004 - 7:06 am:

I was remiss in not pointing out to you earlier, Care for Horses » Nutrition » Selenium in Horses.
DrO
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