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Discussion on Any reason for trimming one foot shorter than other?
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 - 7:55 am:
My horse's right hind foot is about 1 or 1 1/2 centimetres shorter than the left hind, measured straight down from the front of the coronet to the ground. She's shod, so it's not a matter of uneven wear.
If it's a deliberate choice made by the farrier rather than an error, what would the possible reasons be?
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Member:
gramsey1
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 - 7:58 pm:
The hoof should be trimmed to support the internal structures of the foot. It is not unusual for the length of the toe or the angle of balance to be different from one side to the other.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Friday, Jul 1, 2011 - 12:29 am:
Thanks Guy.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jul 1, 2011 - 7:30 am:
Hello LL,
Occasionally feet will be trimmed different, most often do to unilateral flexor contracture or laxity. The principles for judging balance will apply to both feet, study the articles at HorseAdvice.com » Horse Care » Hoof Care, Hoof Trimming, Shoeing Horses for on proper trimming and judging hoof balance.
DrO
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Jul 1, 2011 - 7:41 am:
I agree that feet can be of different size as a natural situation due to a horse's way of going but once had a farrier intentionally cut one front foot considerably shorter than the other one in order to eliminate a crack in the foot.
What a mistake that was.
My horse's way of going was messed up for a very long while. What a rough ride.
Wrecked havoc with my horse!
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 2, 2011 - 11:35 am:
Thanks for the responses. I was a bit concerned particularly because I've been rehabbing my horse for muscle pain in the lower back, worse on the right side, where the foot is shorter. She tends to rest this foot quite often too.
The muscle pain was there BEFORE this last trimming/shoeing, and the disparity between the size of the two hooves doesn't seem to have made matters any worse .... but I just wonder whether it's hindering the healing process .... or perhaps actually a good thing? I'm going to have to ask the farrier, but they tend to be touchy people in my experience, quick to see a question as criticism 
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Member:
gramsey1
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 3, 2011 - 8:24 am:
Hi,
Your hoof care specialist, veterinarian, trainer and barn manager (if you are a boarder) form a team needed to reach your goals for the horse and rider.
If the professional responsible for trimming is offended by the question you posed to this group, I suggest it is time to find a new professional. You, your trainer, your veterinarian, and your trainer should all be able to discuss this with your hoof care professional, without offending him.
It took us a long time to assemble a team that communicates and reaches consensus. But, it was worth it.
Just my 2 cents
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 3, 2011 - 2:36 pm:
I too am very concerned with my horse's way of going and have had farriers in the past so some really odd things which when the next shoer saw the hooves told me it could have done long term damage. It doesn't hurt to get a second opinion. I even had one once that trimmed my colt's feet so his hooves were straight up and down from coronet to toe, I immediately fired him and told him why. It cost me another hundred bucks to fix what he did right before my foal's inspection. I was LIVID! Get a second opinion. It's YOUR horse, not the shoer's.
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Member:
canderso
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 3, 2011 - 5:30 pm:
The question that came to my mind was "Is this just your horse or is it every horse the farrier trims?"
If it is just your horse, then I would ask the question. If it is all the horses s/he trims, then I would get a new farrier.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Monday, Jul 4, 2011 - 12:39 am:
Oh, shoot, LL, Only you know how you must manage the situation you are in with your farrier. How long has this farrier been shoeing your horse? No hoof is 100% identical to it's corresponding hoof. Watch your horse carefully....lunge in both directions...try to determine if this shoeing method is working.
I've owned horses with many different problems that required "creative shoeing". But I've also encountered a bad farrier once or twice....you've got to watch carefully and decide how your horse is going...better or worse? Give things a chance, and then make a decision.
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Member:
gramsey1
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Posted on Monday, Jul 4, 2011 - 12:02 pm:
LL,
I like Lee's advice. I didn't mean for the discussion to take a negative direction. Only saying, you should not fear a discussion with your farrier. You hire him. He works at your pleasure.
It should be a pleasure to pay him, for a job you recognize as well done.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Monday, Jul 4, 2011 - 3:54 pm:
Well I called him today to ask him to come this week, and he's coming on Wednesday.
I'm tending towards believing that he trimmed the two feet so differently for a good reason, and hope that he can reassure me as to the effect on the back muscles (which, as I mentioned, don't seem to be any the worse for it except that the resting of the RH, which is the shorter foot, continues).
Guy, the picture you describe (in your July 3rd post) of a team of professionals working together brought a smile to my face. What a perfect world that would be!
Thanks again to you all, and I'll let you know.
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Member:
gramsey1
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Posted on Monday, Jul 4, 2011 - 7:28 pm:
And here they are:
https://www.traveldafarms.net/
https://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/iaep/locate.html (search Lisa Markowitz NJ)
https://maidafarms.com/biography.html
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Benner-Stephanie-C-Vmd/158844717472201?sk=info (Stephanie trains with Diana and J.J.
https://www.bwfurlongnj.com/
https://www.team-tatedressage.com/my-philosophy-mission.html
https://www.montyroberts.com/
Our daughter Caroline is taking advanced certification training this month, in Solvang, CA
All as J.J. says, becoming the advocate of the horse's well-being.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 6, 2011 - 12:51 am:
No, no, I didn't mean that to sound negative...I just wanted to bolster LL's confidence in approaching her farrier with a legitimate question. Check carefully how the horse is going, and discuss it with the farrier. The farrier should want to see the horse trotted to him, away from him and past him periodically just to check his way of moving. Remember, you're paying for the farrier's expertise and knowledge. He owe's you your money's worth ( unless you happen to be a talkative weirdo ). It's during your discussions with your farrier that he gets to know your horse...and YOU get to know your horse's foot. Part of his work is to educate you.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 6, 2011 - 9:58 am:
"A talkative weirdo"! You've found me out!
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Member:
tdiana
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 6, 2011 - 4:27 pm:
LL,
could you let us know what your farrier said? Just for the benefit of learning his point of view. It would be interesting.
Thanks
Diana
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 6, 2011 - 11:19 pm:
Yes I definitely will, Diana. He's now coming today (Thursday) instead, that's why I haven't posted yet.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Friday, Jul 8, 2011 - 5:56 am:
I remain uneducated . The conversation went like this:
me: She's a lot better in the back, though she still rests the RH quite a lot.
farrier: (smile)
me: I have noticed that the RH foot is quite a bit smaller than the LH. I know you're supposed to shoe each foot individually ...
farrier: yes
me: ...but I wondered if it has an effect on the back ....
farrier: it does
me: ...in a bad way?
farrier: ...no
End of conversation.
This is why I laughed hollowly at Guy's depiction of a dedicated team working with you.
On the upside, he seems to me have done a pretty nice balanced job, which is the main thing, and the two hinds are closer in size than before, though some discrepancy remains (and maybe should).
Sorry I couldn't provide any useful information.
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Member:
gramsey1
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Posted on Friday, Jul 8, 2011 - 4:58 pm:
Ahhh . . . I'd be looking.
I think it was Lincoln who said, 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
That said, I have seen enough in a wide variety of experience to know that fools and hucksters thrive because so few of us demand excellence.
I have worked with and even employed people that have a difficult time expressing themselves. But, only when I have the knowledge necessary to recognize their genius, and therefore trust them.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Friday, Jul 8, 2011 - 9:57 pm:
Maybe you've got to work on that "talkative wierdo" side of yourself to draw him out...
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 9, 2011 - 5:49 am:
Actually, he was very communicative and happy to discuss the details of my horse's feet and what they needed BEFORE I changed to him from the previous farrier. He had very good ideas, and was pretty much on the same page as DrO. But it seems that once a farrier takes your horse on, there is no more discussion.
Yet another farrier I had, quite a long time ago, was using eggbar shoes on my horse for suspensory desmitis, which was generally believed to be a good thing. DrO posted an excellent piece of research carried out in the Netherlands which showed that eggbars, wedges and anything else which raised the heel relieved stress on the DDFT, but moved it to the suspensory (I THINK I'm remembering it the right way round). I printed the article out as I thought he'd take a professional interest (besides which I was concerned for my horse), and he said to me: "You tell me what's wrong with your horse, and I'll decide what to do about it."
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 9, 2011 - 8:15 am:
Hello LL,
Sounds like you might have the farrier looking a bit closer. Carefully measure the length of the wall at the toe of both hind feet and let us know what you get.
DrO
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 10, 2011 - 3:03 pm:
The difference in length is now down to 1/2 to 3/4 of a cm.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Monday, Jul 11, 2011 - 11:31 pm:
How's the back pain coming along? And keep talking LL, you just may wear him down. Besides, I still go with the feeling that your farrier "owes" you information along with your shoeing.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 12, 2011 - 6:23 am:
Thanks for the interest, Lee. There's no sign of back pain any more, other than the leg resting and that, I think, is improving.
The vet has been giving me advice over the phone every week or so as far as gradually increasing work/decreasing Bute is concerned, and has now told me to start a tiny amount of canter (one arena lap in each direction per session), and to give just 1gm Bute once a week. After a couple of weeks or so of this regime, he'll come back out to see her move and palpate her back.
This whole problem showed up initially with discomfort in canter to the right, so, fingers crossed.
She does have underrun heels at the back (NOT due to present farrier, who is trying to correct them). At one point he added 2 deg wedge pads, which did give a better angle, but she then started switching hinds at canter right - might not have been connected, but we decided to remove them to be sure. After the removal, she stopped switching, but still had the original canter right problem.
Anyway, things seem to be improving. Thanks a lot to all who have responded.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 12, 2011 - 6:34 am:
Show him your measurements at the next visit and see what happens LL.
DrO
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 12, 2011 - 11:20 pm:
Well, I'll start by asking the vet his opinion of the hinds, as he's due to come first.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Friday, Aug 26, 2011 - 10:33 am:
An update: the vet agrees that the relative shortness of the RH hoof is causing/adding to the pain in the hindquarters on the right side, as she is forced to put the RH forward to better contact the ground. He commented that possibly the LH hoof (the longer one on the sounder side) is doing more work as she's favouring the RH, and, being used less, the RH is growing less. Similarly I suppose the harder working LH is growing more. So it sounds as if this could be a vicious circle.
He recommends that I ask the farrier to gradually bring the LH (long) hoof to match the RH (short) hoof.
I measured the two hind hooves again today, and once again the difference is 1 1/2 cm. After the farrier was here last, he had reduced the difference to between 1/2 to 3/4 cm, so it does seem to bear out the vet's theory, and make the farrier less culpable.
What do you think, DrO and others? The farrier is due to come back tomorrow. I'm thinking of asking him to come more frequently until this is resolved.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 27, 2011 - 4:17 pm:
Without examining the horse LL I really don't have an opinion on specific treatment recommendations. I would say a around a cm of difference would not be a likely cause of lameness if the feet are balanced and not overly long. But until you correct it who can be certain? If there is differential growth in the feet certainly more frequent trimming will help keep the two feet more equal.
DrO
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Monday, Aug 29, 2011 - 8:07 am:
Thank you.
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