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Discussion on Horse looks like racoon
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 2, 2005 - 8:59 pm:
I have a flea bitten grey horse. In the last week his eyes look like a racoon. The grey pigment around his eyes seems to be increasing in circumference with ?hair loss. He does not seem to be itchy, no crud, no scabs, skin is smooth. He wears a fly mask daily. The area affected is only around his eyes. I do not use fly spray on his face.
I have called the vet and hope to have an appt. tomorrow. We were treating for eye bumps/nodules. He had these since I bought him about two years ago and have been looked at by two different vets and did not think they were significant. There is one on the right eye and several smaller ones on the left. It was questionable if may be melanoma vs whatever and seemed to respond to dexamethasone with antibiotic ointment. We started mid August and stopped middle of October as bumps were looking much better and were getting a re eval before proceeding with more meds, then I started noticing the grey around the eyes this last week. Could this be a reaction to the ointment? Never had any problems when using med. Any suggestions?????
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 2, 2005 - 10:36 pm:
I know that Arabians will loose the hair around their eyes if you put oil around them. Perhaps this is the same type of thing?
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 2, 2005 - 11:08 pm:
Hello Anita,
I guess all I can say is that you started using meds around the time that a summer coat would be shedding and stopped using meds when a winter coat should be coming in...hmmmm.
I might venture to say that the skin around the eyes is much thinner than elsewhere on the horses' body and more susceptible to absorption from the meds.
Might see this disappearing in the spring with the shed. Hopefully the bumps are gone too.
Susan B.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 3, 2005 - 9:27 am:
Anita, could you fill out your profile so we know which part of the world you live in?
Is the change you are seeing in the color of the hair coat or the color of the skin or both? You hint that the problem is one of hair loss and the underlying shorter (or newer) hair is darker, is this what you are seeing?
DrO
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 3, 2005 - 10:39 am:
Dr. O I live in San Diego, CA. I will edit the profile. His skin is pigmented grey not pink so no change in skin color. There does seem to be hair loss as there is no white hair and I question if there is any hair there currently it could be very short and grey.
As for the eye nodules they are in the lower eye lid not on the outside on the skin and medication was placed into the eye/lower lid.
Thanks for all your comments. I never thought about the summer vs winter coat, but this is odd.
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 3, 2005 - 5:46 pm:
Dr. O...update.. vet called stated unconcerned regarding the loss of hair around eyes. Thinks he may be rubbing or whatever, but he stated loss of hair was insignificant. I am at a loss with their lack of concern. I spoke with him about the lumps/nodules on the eyes again. I had taken before and after pictures and he said pictures do not tell the whole story and are deceiving. There was improvement mid way, but now I think they are worse. He thought they may be plugged ducts reason for the medication. He said this can help if that is the case and was told this by an eye doctor. Or other reason possible small tumor. Well...I am wondering now about his evaluation all together. So I requested a referral to the eye Dr. and called today...now am waiting to hear back. Any suggestions? Questions to ask etc...
thanks
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Nov 4, 2005 - 8:51 am:
I don't see in your posts anything that represents an opthalmic problem, though a second opinion on the tumors might be reasonable. It could be they are not concerned about the hair cause they think it will correct itself as the new hair bleaches from the sun or as the summer coat is replaced with the winter one. I do think it is possible the corticosteroid used around the eyes could be effecting hair growth and replacement but this would be a temporary change that will correct itself in time with discontinuing the ointment.
DrO
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 5, 2005 - 4:15 pm:
Thanks Dr. O, I have spoke with a vet intern working with the opthalmologist and emailed pictures of Rusty's eyes...as my trailer is up in the LA area being fixed, I can not take him in for a eval at this time and no house calls.
This doctor seemed more interested in what's going on and with the lumps. She thought cytology test or biopsy may be needed for diagnosis down the line, but wanted Dr. Steele to look at the pictures to see what her thoughts may be. As the lumps are not acute, but this also gives them a look at the hair loss around the eyes. What is your thoughts on bumps on the lower eye lids, no change really in size and no weeping.
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 5, 2005 - 5:13 pm:
Hello Anita,
Are you able to post the same pictures that you e-mailed to the vet?
Although, the lumps and bumps are your major concern, the hair loss might not be that bad and as Dr.O says you need a little adjustment time.
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 5, 2005 - 8:32 pm:
Hello Susan, I've tried repeatedly to post the pictures....state exceeds maximum upload size. I've tried just one and still does not condense/zip file enough If you can think of anything else to try let me know.
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 5, 2005 - 8:37 pm:
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for offering suggestions & advice. All are greatly appreciated
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 5, 2005 - 9:14 pm:
Anita, if you have any kind of photo editor like Paint, or Adobe, etc. you can resize the photo and then send it.
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Member:
Eoeo
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 5, 2005 - 11:24 pm:
What I do is e-mail the photo to myself, the photo program usually says it will send it in the smallest size for e-mail, and the I save it to my computer. I am not very knowlegeable when it comes to the photo programs and mine won't let me use paint for some reason so that is how I have circumvented the problem. EO
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 6, 2005 - 7:13 am:
Hello Anita,
I agree that biopsy would be the way to discern what they are. Of course melanomas are possible and but I have also seen periocular sarcoids.
DrO
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 6, 2005 - 11:15 am:
Very inventive, EO
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Member:
Cutting
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Posted on Monday, Nov 7, 2005 - 8:19 am:
Anita, if you want to email me the photos, I will reduce them and post?
We had two fillies with what sounds like the same issues this summer into the fall. I treated them as if it was rain rot and had great results.
I try and use essential oils as much as I can so I did use Melaleuca alternifolia (10 DrOps in a pint of water spray bottle) instead of the Betadine. Treated every other day for a week or so and was cleared up by the second week.
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Monday, Nov 7, 2005 - 7:04 pm:
Hi Bonnie. Thanks I sent the email. What is Melaleuca alternifolia? Okay around the eyes? Did you have hair loss as well? I am still waiting to hear from the eye doctor...on her thoughts etc...Thanks so very much
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Member:
Cutting
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Posted on Monday, Nov 7, 2005 - 7:22 pm:
Here you go, photos from Anita. Not what we had.
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Monday, Nov 7, 2005 - 8:55 pm:
Thank you Bonnie! Can I send you another picture to post?
Dr. O what do you think? The one darker spot on the bottom picture I lightly scraped a bit to see if it flaked or came off. You can also see the bumps on the left lower eye. The right has one too, but not seen very well with this picture It is actually larger than the ones on the left.
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Monday, Nov 7, 2005 - 8:58 pm:
Bonnie never mind about the picture...this was the one I wanted to send. The bump just does not show up well. Hopefully Dr. O. will have some ideas Thanks again
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 8, 2005 - 7:44 am:
The difference in color is do to hair length. Was there any indication of scabbing from your scrape test? See my post above about hair loss. I see the lump and it appears to be a melanoma but will require removal and cytology to confirm.
DrO
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 8, 2005 - 11:25 am:
Dr. O No scabbing just the darker pigmentation where I scratched. You think there is hair still present then. So it should grow out in time? As for the lump would you suggest removal and cytology. I ask since I was reading as long as they are not problematic for the horse sometimes it is best to not do anything. What are your thoughts regarding this?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 9, 2005 - 8:55 am:
If I am correct about the steroid being the reason for the delayed hair growth, I think it will correct itself in time. The question is will it catch up this winter or is it too late and will it wait and do it with next summer's growth. If your vet also feels melanoma is likely and/or if they are growing it would be better to remove it before it grows larger.
DrO
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 9, 2005 - 8:53 pm:
Thanks Dr. O. I'm not sure my vet really knows what to think He says maybe, could be..I understand diagnosis may take further test etc..but he seems very unconcerned. I realize the bumps are more of a blemish as they do not seem to be growing, but they did seem to decrease some after the medication. As for the hair regrowth is there anything I can do or should be doing to protect the skin or just leave it alone. I will contact the eye doctor tomorrow as I have not heard back since I sent the pictures her way. Anita
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 10, 2005 - 8:58 am:
Because I cannot examine your horse first hand Anita I should not make specific treatment recommendations. I do not see any reason the skin would need special protection nor do I know of anything you would need to do if I am correct in my best guess from looking at your image.
DrO
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Member:
Rusty
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 26, 2005 - 3:18 pm:
Dr. O. I think Rusty's hair may be coming back!!! You can see white fluff areas not just grey now small, but an improvement Just an update...still without my trailer so have not been able to take him to the eye doctor...I did speak with them and they suggest possible cytology/biopsy once they examine him. Although she seemed to think the hair loss was a direct relation to the bumps and I do not think it is. Maybe the medication yes, but not the bumps. This has me concerned as I want to do what is necessary, but have heard if encapsulated may be best to leave alone. At this point I am at a stand still but wanted to update you.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Nov 28, 2005 - 7:38 am:
I would let the physical exam findings and the recommendations of the examining vet guide you.
DrO
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