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Discussion on Older Broodmare | |
Author | Message |
Member: Bara |
Posted on Friday, Oct 24, 2003 - 1:11 pm: I have a 23 yr old Arabian Broodmare. I got one foal out of her in 2001. She had been bred 9 times before within her first 20 years without that first problem with breaks in between. I have her complete history. She only had 2 owners before me and I have their vet records and contact with them.Anyway, because she gets real ribby but still holds her weight well from nursing I decided to give her a break but circumtances made the break last it will be 3 years this spring. In that time she has gotten in beautiful condition, weight and soundness. She goes into normal heats on schedule and drives us nuts. Our mini stallion just has to wink at her from the other pasture and bring her into heat. The breeding farm tells me that she can still be bred a couple of more times and she will no doubt do fine. Shes an excellent mother and she births without complication. I breed her to an arab the same size as her. 14.2. She just turned 23. She was 20 when she had her last foal. Give me some input. Arabs are more strong willed than most breeds and live many more years with stamina. She is adreniline pumped and the other horses cant keep up with her. Give me your opinions. She will be permantly retired from breeding at 25. We have been building a new farm and this last 3 yrs. have left no time to breed her and monitor her progress with a pregnancy and we do watch that from the beginning}. Thanks Kristin |
Member: Bevpolo |
Posted on Friday, Oct 24, 2003 - 3:56 pm: Kristin,I have a 23 yr old and a 21 yr old Thoroughbred in production. They both foaled this spring and are back in foal (the 23 yr old off her foal heat!)! I have to put extra effort into keeping their weight up, float their teeth every 6 months and worm them every 6-8 weeks. They get Equine Senior by Purina and quality bermuda grass hay in the summer and alfalfa in the winter. They are on pasture 100% of the time and never stalled except when their foals are first born. They are beautiful older matrons and have beautiful active foals of high birth weight. You may have to buy more expensive feed and give them a little more TLC, but there should be no problem. I don't let them take a year off because they have too few years left and I have found that it is harder to get them back in foal after a break. After breeding I make sure to give them HCG and I have tried Ovuplant but my success rate of conception doesn't seem any better than the HCG. Best of luck getting them in foal! Bev |
Member: Canyon28 |
Posted on Friday, Oct 24, 2003 - 7:16 pm: I also have several older riding mares and brood mares. My oldest and best mare is going to be 22 this spring and I try to keep her in foal and also in good condition like the other poster said. It is much harder to bring an older mare back to good condition than it is to keep her that way. It is best to keep them in foal, because with their age, if they are allowed a year off, their hormones may change and you will have a lot of difficulty getting them back in foal again. I feed alot of top quality alfalfa and grass hay, and she is also on pasture all of the time with a three sided shed for a wind break that she can go into anytime. She has some lameness issues, being navicular, through neglect of her feet by previous owners, but with proper shoeing at frequent intervals, she is very comfortable and gets around fine. It is best to keep older mares out in a pasture if possible, to keep them moving and in good muscle tone. An old mare standing around in a pen is a bad idea, you are not helping her, she needs to keep moving. If all you have is a pen, put the feed at one end andthe water at the other. When she is about 8 months along , I start feeding her senior feed in addition to her hay, and also put soy oil on it to help keep her fat through the winter. She is kept on the senior feed all the way through foaling and until the foal is at least three of four months old. Older horses need their teeth checked every six months and floating done as needed. I have three other mares that are 19, two of them are broke to ride, so I ride them some, at a walk or slow trot, to help keep them in shape until foaling. I also stall my mares at night when foaling dates are near, turning them out during the day. I attend every birth and have only been tricked a couple of times, and I still was there before the foal was dry. Older mares are more prone to foaling problems like internal bleeding, etc, so take pains to attend the birth, even if it means haveing to buy a camera to monitor with. I dont have one, but for some people they are a lifesaver. I do not use HCG much, and have never needed regumate or other drugs for any of my mares. The ovaplant must be removed after the mare comes into heat and is bred, otherwise it has been shown to really mess up future heat cycles, if the mare remains open, many times eliminating the rest of the seasons cycles. I have never had good luck using lute. Also older mares may not come into heat as early as the young mares, just give them time and dont rush them with chemicals. the wait is well worth it when you get a foal with old bloodlines from an old mare and an old stallion, like mine.www.canyonrimranch.net |
Member: Bara |
Posted on Saturday, Oct 25, 2003 - 2:30 am: Thank you so much B Greenwood and Christine. I didnt mention that my Arab mare has been on Equine senior since I bought her 4 yrs ago. She is always in the pasture with shelter. She has an old walking horse gelding for a companion. She gets a good amount of a quality hay with timothy, alfalfa and orchard grass. Even though she hasnt been bred in almost 3 years she goes into her heat cycle on a regular schedule like a young mare. Its winter here so shes rested. She will go to the stallion in Mar. when her cycle starts. Wish us luck. and thanks for the positive input. Oh, I keep her teeth floated on a regular schedule too. She is a bundle of energy and never lays around. She has a large pasture and constantly patrols it with running speed. She a wind drinker. Ill let you know how she does. Shell be constantly monitored. We are set up with cameras. We have her last birth on film. She was 20 then. Thanks again. Kristin |
Member: Bevpolo |
Posted on Saturday, Oct 25, 2003 - 8:09 am: As Christine said, I didn't mention, definitely be there for the birth. The older matrons that have had a lot of foals will not give you many signs. My 23 year old this spring walked into her stall for dinner, came to the door, gave me a funny look, grabbed a mouth full of feed and started to lay down. I snatched her up out of her stall, cleaned her up, tied her tail up and put her into my foaling pen (a grassy area behing the house). She immediately laid down, started pushing and had the foal ten minutes later. Those older ladies appreciate a little bananmine and us taking the job of cleaning up the foal for them!Another thing you can do to ensure a good strong heat cycle in March is put her under lights in the evening. Start on November 1st and keep her under lights from dusk until 9 or 10pm. I turn my mares back out to the pasture after that, however, we have mild winters here in central Texas. That may not be possible for you. The reason I use HCG...as we have to use live cover for the Jockey Club, I try to get these ladies in foal with one breeding. I do not breed multiple days and the less activity in these older ladies anatomy, the better, if you know what I mean. So I want to make sure they have ovulated after that breeding because the next shot I have is 3-4 weeks later. I have tried Ovuplant twice when I had to take the 23 yr old a long distance to breed. The first time worked, the second did not and of course we couldn't find it to take it out but she still came back in heat just fine (thank goodness)! Bev |
Member: Bara |
Posted on Saturday, Oct 25, 2003 - 10:52 am: Thank you Bev,Your information is so helpful. Kim does good giving birth. We watched her on video. I live in Indiana so the winters arent predictable here. Mostly long and dark. What would be a good lighting to use. I cant use a heat lamp as at this time I have hay stored in the lofts and fire risk is possible and she likes to be outside in the day. Shes out all the time right now because we have alot of sunlight for now. I can buy the mineral lights they use for tropical birds with a shutdown timer. They arent hot and fit into a shop light casing. They are very light but cool. Any suggestions will help. I could light my outside shelter too and not have to bring her in. She doesnt like to come in unless shes about to give birth then she knows to tell us. We bring her in about a week before shes due. Thanks Kristin |
Member: Bara |
Posted on Saturday, Oct 25, 2003 - 12:20 pm: Christine,I looked at your webpage. You have a wonderful ranch and your horses are really great. I am looking forward to breeding my older mare and getting started. Thanks for the sound advice. Best wishes. |
Member: Bevpolo |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 26, 2003 - 3:24 pm: It doesn't matter what kind of lights, just as long as wherever the mare goes in the stall or shelter, it is bright enough that you could read a newspaper. You are trying to trick her into thinking the days are longer and thus it is spring, when horses prefer to have their babies and breed. I use big utility light bulbs. I am not sure of their wattage, but they are clear bulbs that do not produce heat. I actually need to go get some today. I usually find them at Lowe's and can't usually find them at Home Depot. Since you are waiting until March, you could probably start her under lights on Dec 1 instead of Nov 1. I start early since TBs birthdays are all basically January 1 for the racetrack. Anyway, good luck! Bev |
Member: Westks |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 26, 2003 - 4:44 pm: we use 40 watt fluorescent bulbs in soft white so not so hard on eyes last year and worked fine. |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Wednesday, Oct 29, 2003 - 9:55 am: I would add that your mare, regardless of history, should have a pre-breeding exam including a culture. Sometimes older mares are subject to urine pooling or other conditions that predispose them to infection. Even a very mild infection can make it difficult for the mare to either get pg., or stay pg. And, I like ultrasounds so I know just when to breed. Even if breeding "in hand" a US saves breeding once or twice a day for several days. You only need to breed once before and once after ovulation.If you haven't bred or foaled her out before you should get any info you can fr. her previous owners. Knowing what to look for will cut down on long nights in the barn. We keep notes on all our mares as to how they act when ready to breed, and when they are ready to foal. They are amazingly consistent. We have several older mares that we breed (all Arabians) We did have to put one on Regumate to help her maintain her pregnancy. (We really wanted her foal and she had lost a pg. early on the previous yr.) Other than that, we've had no problems. I love the older mares. They know what they are doing, have a great "air" about them, and don't keep you sleeping in the barn for weeks. Ours have never had any foaling out problems (I worry more about our maiden's) but as posted above,they don't mess around when it's their time. btw-we do keep our mares under lights if we intend to breed them early in the year. It's easy to set them up on timers. Seems to me like Dr. O. has posted the lighting requirements. There are someother excellent sites on breeding too. The book "Blessed Are the Broodmares" is also very good. |
Member: Bevpolo |
Posted on Wednesday, Oct 29, 2003 - 10:16 am: Definitely have a culture done and make sure she is clean before bothering with breeding. I don't think of that as it is required with live cover. However, if you find a lot of scarring and cysts in the uterine body, don't get too wound up. I have had a vet tell me my 23 yo mare, then 20, had a 1% chance of conceiving and carrying to term. Since then she has had two healthy foals and is in foal with the third, this last time conceiving on foal heat. And I concur about the ultrasound. That is how I get by with one breed only. I breed when the follicle is about 35mm and soft.I have found with the older mares, they want the help of foaling and even expect it. My younger mares do everything they can to hide it. I have had a maiden have an RV fistula (head out the anus) and if I hadn't been there to push it back in and deliver correctly, I could have lost the mare. The younger mares can definitely have the bigger delivery troubles but the older mares are so precious, keep a good eye on them too! |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Oct 29, 2003 - 4:54 pm: I want to point out that we here at HA think the value of a culture without cytology is very limited for more on this see The Horseman's Advisor » Equine Reproduction » Breeding and Foaling » Uterine Culture and Cytology.DrO |