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HorseAdvice.com » Training, Behavior, & Conditioning Horses » Behavioral Problems » Spooky Horse Under Saddle » |
Discussion on Unpredictable yet consistent | |
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 6, 2001 - 11:06 am: I really don't know what I'm dealing with here. The horse is a 3-year old gelding who we have trained along with his 2-year old sister. Sister, while very headstrong & somewhat volital is now progressing nicely under saddle. Brother is very mellow in all groundwork excercises, performs perfectly in round pen, checks out 100% in all his gives...BUT...for no reason, (he could be standing, walking in a perfectly clear, familiar area), he lays his ears back, throws his head & becomes completely unmanageable. His behavior is then very consistent. The one-rein stop causes him to spin relentlessly--haunches down, turning on the hindquarters at a faster & faster rate. The last episode, I counted at least 20 full turns before he managed to unseat the rider (my husband) & then, presumably because he was so dizzy, staggered & fell on top of the electric fence. This has happened at least 4 times & someone is going to get hurt if we don't find a solution. After the last episode, I caught him & began checking him out again in preparation for remounting. He seemed very distant, like his mind was 100 miles away. I also noticed that he was chewing on the bit (a mild snaffle) in his back teeth. It took me about an hour to bring his attention & focus around enough for me to feel reasonably safe in remounting, which I did successfully before putting him away.Any comments, suggestions would be very much appreciated. |
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 6, 2001 - 2:17 pm: Gracious Jivan,Without an examination and actually seeing these events I cannot know if this is a training (behavior) or medical issue. It is possible that these represent some type of seizure activity. The way you describe his attitude following the event sounds a bit like the post DrOmal phase of a seizure. You need to get the event on tape if at all possible including the pre and post seizure events. This along with a thorough vet exam may lead to an explanation. DrO |
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 6, 2001 - 10:36 pm: Have you had his teeth filed? Sounds as if he had/has a back tooth hurting him with the bit in place. I would have it done by a vet or a professional tooth person. Really examine the back inside for sharp edges.Good Luck |
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 7, 2001 - 8:29 am: Hello Lola,I have never seen such a severe reaction to a tooth problem, and if I understand correctly the post above the behavioral problem also occurs in halter and perhaps with no tack on. On the other hand exmaining his teeth should be part of that exam and any abnormaolities corrected...you never know till you fix all you can find wrong. DrO |
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Posted on Friday, Oct 12, 2001 - 7:28 pm: I did post a thank you to Dr. Oglesby & Lola, but it seems to have been abducted. In the meantime: I checked my geldings teeth & did indeed find a small protrusion on an upper molar. I'm a little timid about dwelling in that area for any length of time, but will follow up by getting his teeth floated. I'm not ruling out further complications, but this is certainly the least catastrophic in time & expense & hopefully it will be a simple solution to our problem. Thank you both for your insights. |
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 13, 2001 - 10:05 am: Please let us know how all this works out Jivian.DrO |
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Posted on Friday, Oct 19, 2001 - 4:30 pm: Again I need your advice Dr. Oglesby. Today I called my vet for a preliminary discussion about the procedure (floating). I am doing my best to adhere to natural horsemanship techniques in raising/training my horses. I wanted my vet to advise any specific sacking out exercises I should do in preparation for the procedure so that horse & vet both would be least traumatized. My gelding is an Anglo Arabian/Thououghbred & extremely sensitive, yet gentle & cooperative if introduced to new things gradually. I'm getting the impression that most vets are far too busy to cater to "woo-woo" owners & I understand that, which is why I want the procedure to be at least understood by my horse in advance so that time & energy will be saved. I know the vet will probably resort to sedation at the first sign of resistance which concerns me because the introduction of a sedative to his younger sister last year during an examination of an abcess made her even more aggitated, uncontrollable & outright dangerous to the point that the vet had to terminate the exam & prescribe meds "on a hope & a prayer" that the diagnosis was correct. A year later, after I had worked every day on training her to give her feet willingly, the same condition arose. This time my filly not only cooperated, but the vet was able to drill & drain without any sedation. So I know that this type of conditioning works. My vet says, "It'll go how it goes" (the floating) & I shouldn't assume that just because his sister reacted adversely to sedation, he will as well.Am I making a mountain out of a molar hill? (sorry, bad pun, couldn't resist). I'm pretty much alone out here in cowboy country where even the closet advocates of natural horsemanship will still resort to the old ways if "it gets the job done". Thanks for listening. Feel free to recommend a good psychiatrist. |
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 20, 2001 - 3:49 am: Jivan,Floating the horse (ie. dentistry) shouldn't be a painful experience. And once the contraption is on their heads and the vet is rasping their teeth, most horses settle down. Some I have noticed even enjoy the filing. Especially when they realize what the vet is doing and how good their teeth feel when he's done. Sounds strange, but both my girls settle in after the initial setup. Neither has ever needed sedation. And I have a big TB girl. Who loves to fight everything. Is your horse a baby? or older? i would hope if he is an older guy he was floated before. One thing I learned to do to check their mouth is to grab their lip and massage their gums, this is a relaxing episode. Once you do this try pulling the tongue out. This sort of simulates what the vet will be doing. Usually, I can grab their upper lip and twist it up. Quickly you must grab his tongue and pull out the side of his mouth. hold it there till he submits. (if you can) But make sure this is a positive experience. After these little moments of positive accomplishment give him a treat. Let him know that playing in the mouth is not a bad thing. And if he cooperates he gets a treat. If at all you don't feel comfortable doing something just wait for the vet. I know some vets can be harsh but, they usually don't need to dope them up before hand. Good luck |
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 20, 2001 - 8:26 am: He is right Jivan. It is extremely rare for a horse to act adversly to sedation so don't worry about that. I have never seen one though I have heard of them being reported.Frequently the vet does have a deadline to meet and does not have time to train the horse so I recommend you approach the whole appointment different. Tell him when you make the appointment that you wish to pay him for his time, not for the job, as it may take a bit longer to intorduce the horse to the procedure. Not only have you got to get your horse relaxed but the vet too. DrO |
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 20, 2001 - 9:35 am: Jivan, you might also want to check to see if there is a good equine dentist in your area.When I first got my horses, one of the vets in the practice I use pretty much steered me that way. She indicated that, since that's what they do, day in and day out, it can be a good choice. The only problem is if the horse needs more than a "normal" floating, (sedation, extraction...) a vet will either need to work with the equine dentist or do the work. I later found out that a local vet does specialize in floating teeth which would make him a good choice. This same vet also works with the equine dentist if the procedure requires his care. (He only works with equine dentists he's seen and approved of their work.) Last year at the barn where I was boarding, some owners had the vets from the practice we use float the teeth (with sedation.) The owner and I used an equine dentist who'd been doing this for 15 years and had apprenticed with a well know equine dentist (who went to work on horses down in Sydney for the Olympics.) Everyone who saw both sets of procedures done, agreed that the horses were calmer and fought much less (even though not sedated) with the equine dentist. He really took his time with each horse and adapted to his/her personality. He even worked on my three month old foal (no charge) to get him used to having the rasps in his mouth etc. I'd recommend checking around with other horse owners in your area to see what all your options are. You might find a vet who specializes in equine dentistry or you might find there's a competant equine dentist in the area. Good Luck. Karen |
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 20, 2001 - 11:12 am: Thank you again Dr. Oglesby & thanks Karene for your great insight. You both have mad me more relaxed about theprocedure which I'm sure will transfer positively to my horse. Dego is a 3-yr old gelding & this will be his 1st dental experience. My vet comes highly recommended by the local horsepeople, most of whom are working (part time) cowboys. She recently performed a 3-tooth extraction on a friend's 3-year old colt wih no complications. So it's just the 1st time mom jitters in me I think. The "preflight" exercises you suggested, Dr. Oglesby are exactly what I was looking for & I read your aricticle on equine dental care, so now I'm feeling much more prepared. |
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 20, 2001 - 11:26 am: Jojo--Sorry, I missed your name in the credits! I went back & reread -- thank you for the preflight suggestions. I once saw John Lyons lead his horse by the tongue. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again. |
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 20, 2001 - 7:37 pm: I saw you mentioned this is your horse's first dental experience-does this mean he has never had his wolf teeth extracted?Do you know if they have come through. Bitting a horse with wolf teeth can be extremely uncomfortable and painful |
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