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Discussion on Horse flips over backwards to get her own way! | |
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 3, 2001 - 7:05 pm: I have a 7 year old grade mare. I thought she was full Quarter horse until today. She may have some Tennessee Walking Horse in her. She rears when she doesn't want to do something. She will rear when she doesn't want to load or go riding. She will ride in an enclosed area with no problem, but in the pasture she rears up while being ridden. She reared up and flipped over on one man three times. I use a English snaffle bit on her. I don't see any signs of wolf teeth. I was thinking about trying a Tom Thumb copper bit. I've only ridden her once in the pasture. The man that she flipped over on was with me telling me how to ride her. He told me to keep my hands two inches below her mane and pull her straight back. This is difficult to do because my saddle has a rise in the front, and it's hard to bend over that far. Do I really need to change my riding habits for this horse. |
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 3, 2001 - 9:07 pm: Hi there. This is a very dangerous problem. First off I would not put her in a Tom Thumb. Also, I don't really understand the low hands pulling straight back.Have the horses teeth been inspected by a professional? Generally, if I have a rearing horse I use an opening rein to one side. This will get the horse not only off balance so that they put there front feet down but also will not encourage or aid the flipping over. I hope you are wearing a helmut with this horse. As for the rearing when being led, I have had this problem. If you feel comfortable dealing with it yourself here's what I did: whenever the horse rears I give him/her one good wack with a crop to the front legs. Only hit once when they are in the air and be ready for an explosion. Be safe! ~Barbara |
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 3, 2001 - 11:07 pm: Thanks for the information Barbara.The reason for keeping the hands low and pulling straight back was so she couldn't pull up and rear. While I was riding her, if I let myself straighten up in the saddle, I felt her start to rear. I bought a martingale, but only used it in the arena, and she really hated it. In the arena it was harder to control her with the martingale, and I haven't tried it in the pasture yet. I don't know if a tie-down would work better or not. Thanks again, Janet |
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 4, 2001 - 6:31 am: Hi JanetWow, so you are riding with your hands REALLY low. Have you checked her back for any sorenes or muscle atrophy anywhere? I would be sure your saddle fits well. Have you tried riding her in a 2 point position so you are off her back but with your hands in a more comfortable position? I would still do the opening rein to one side when she tries to go up. ~Barbara |
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 4, 2001 - 9:01 pm: Barbara,Thanks again for your advice and time. I'm a bit embarrassed to ask this. I have been riding most my life and broke my own horse about 15 years ago. However, I'm don't know what the open rein or the 2 point position is. Am I right in assuming the open rein is turning the horse in circles? Thanks again, Janet |
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Posted on Monday, Nov 5, 2001 - 9:07 am: Hi JanetYou are correct an opening rein would make the horse circle if you held it. What I recommend would be just to use the opening rein just when she is about to or is rearing not to make her circle. It will just turn her to the side and get her to keep her front feet on the ground. So when you feel her starting to think bad thoughts take one of your reins and move it straight away from her neck/withers. Don't chage the height of your hands and put just enough pressure on her mouth that she has to turn her head to that side, the rest of her front end will follow. The two point is generally taught to riders who will be jumping. I thought this may be worth a try as you say as soon as you sit up she wants to rear. Basically your butt is out of the saddle. With this position your hands will be further up the neck than usual but not held low. Your back will be just above level with the ground. Just be careful if she does decide to go up quickly that you don't get smashed in the face by her. Hope this helps. ~Barbara |
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 7, 2001 - 7:47 pm: Hi Janet,Have you tried using a tie down on this horse? Cheryl |
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 7, 2001 - 9:02 pm: Hi Cheryl,No, I tried a martingale, and it really pissed her off. She was in an arena and I never had problems with her in there before. However, after I tried the martingale she acted up in the arena. I don't know how she would act in the pasture. Thanks, Janet |
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 7, 2001 - 10:46 pm: Horses that are determined to rear can still rear with a tie down and still flip over with a tie down. If the horse is protesting just being ridden, or just being made to do something it doesn't want to do, i.e., move away from its friends, a tie down may just aggravate the situation because the horse will then have to deal with its fear of being made to work and/or move away from its friends, as well as with the terrifying feeling of being caught.I agree with the practice of nipping the act in the bud by asking, with one rein, for a give to the side until the hind end disengages and the horse has to step over in the back, but in my experience, unless you ask for continuous forward movement and make the horse work on something else, a rearing horse will go up again. Ask for forward, preferably on a circle, until you feel the horse willingly move off your leg and give to the bit pressure, and then ask for straight. My philosophy is to help the horse realize that rearing or bucking or balking or backing or hopping or any resistance will result in the horse having to work on a bend until it softens to the pressure of the leg and rein. Horses don't enjoy being made to go forward on small circles, so with time and consistency, the horse will realize that whenever it thinks about misbehaving, that the omniscient rider will give it a task that is more difficult than just walking or trotting or cantering forward as it was originally asked to do. The above technique has worked for me with any of the naughty horses I have trained or ridden. Holly |
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2001 - 10:33 am: Hi Janet and Holly,I mentioned the tie down because it worked with my horse. Every time we started leaving the farm he would start rearing and acting like an idiot because he didn't want to leave his buddies. After putting the tie down on him he barely lifted his front feet off the ground and quickly gave up on even trying to rear. I hope you find a way of resolving this problem soon. Don't want you or your horse hurt. Best of luck and stay safe. Cheryl |
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2001 - 10:55 am: I've been riding over 30 years and will not get on a horse that is a known rearer, much less a flipper.I urge a great deal of caution. A helmet isn't enough - a falling horse can do a LOT of damage to the human body - I know a lady that was in a body cast for quite some time when a horse flipped and landed on her pelvis. That said, rearing is the ultimate resistance to going forward. Rather than trying to control the horse's head/mouth, you need to send it forward aggressively the moment you think it may begin to rear. If necessary, a second person on the ground can use a lunge whip to aid with the "sending forward." But, I would first have an DVM equine dentist do a full work up on this horses mouth. (I've seen a horse that was a problem from an old TONGUE wound due to abuse work nicely "bitless.") Then I would have a DVM evaluate its back for pain. I'd also have a professional saddle fitter check the saddle on the horse. After all that, I would start working the horse as if it had never been started from the ground and want immediate responses to forward requests. I would take it very, very carefully and slowly. If a horse rears while I am on the ground and I am fast enough, I whack them on the belly with a whip and then send them forward. This usually only takes once and you can do it from the side, away from the front hooves. But, again it is a resistance to going forward, so the horse needs to be sent forward! Wear a helmet when dealing with this horse on the ground, too. All that said, why would you want to endanger yourself with such a problem? There are many, many nice horses out there that need homes. I wouldn't put my life in danger. Finally, I doubt I would take any advice from a man that had flipped her 3 times with his riding. Doesn't sound like he has the right idea from his results, ;O) Just my perspective, all. YMMV. |
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2001 - 2:41 pm: I agree with Christine on this one, although I haven't been riding nearly as long as she has . With all of the horses out there, why put up with a dangerous problem horse? I don't believe increasing the severity of the bit or using tie downs solve anything. It may be possible to correct this problem with proper training, but it is a long, time consuming process. Depending on your own abilities, you may want to move on to another horse, but the choice is yours. Good Luck with whatever you decide. |
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2001 - 5:51 pm: Janet--this horse sounds like an accident waiting to happen. If you don't own it, stop riding it. If you do own it, stop riding it and find a good 'cowboy trainer' to work with it for a month or two and see if they think it is fixable.No horse is worth getting hurt on. Laura |
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 15, 2001 - 5:20 pm: In agreement with the above posts - please be careful. I have had a really bad rearer in the past, I persevered with her as she was given to me as a last resort, and I did not have the funds to purchase another. ALWAYS wear a helmet and a body protector, it took me a good few weeks to break the habit. Once I had had all the necessary checked (teeth, saddle etc(, I concentrated to getting the horse moving forward. I long reined for a couple of weeks, and then rode, focussing all my efforts on getting the horse moving strongly forward from leg to hand. As one of the previous posters said, if the horse is moving forwards from the leg, the opportunity to rear is not there. If you get that backing off feeling that happens before they rear, send them forward strongly. Don't worry about head position etc. After a couple of months, my girl stopped trying to rear, she offered a few half-hearted attempts at napping, but learned that it was not tolerated, and she was sent strongly forward. She was never a very complient horse, but never reared again. In fact, I sold her to a hunting home, where she is totally happy. She was never very happy when I used her for dressage and show jumping, but has finally found her "thing" in life. Amazingly all her past faults have now disappeared.Take care, and remember that there is no shame in admitting defeat. |
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 15, 2001 - 8:07 pm: I also agree with Barbara...Do not use a tom thumb bit.. I have a horse that I have Known since her birth some 18 odd years now. we trained her to drive when she was 2 and DrOve her off and on for many years, I've ridden her as well over jumps down & up hills..at one point after she was a pasture ornament for several years we started back to riding again. She seemed to have a really "hard -mouth" so I naivley thought a stronger bit would do the trick as I like a snaffle I put her in a Tom-Thumb... not very long did it take for her to develop the habit of rearing..I really think barbaras advice is great..I can ride this horse in anything including a bosal and she is very safe. but Tom-Thumb no way. You need to be able to disengage or turn the attention another way and the bit called a tom thumb put my horse in a one way mode UPPP & Over..herself and me except I knew how to get out of the way..I hope You find that it is as simple as just the bit!good luck |
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