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Discussion on Mare will not enter stall | |
Author | Message |
New Member: Mistyhll |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2007 - 8:53 pm: A 5 yr. old TB mare, just moved to a new farm for the first time in her life, refuses to enter her "new" stall. She was kept in a stall 5 days a week at her previous farm with turnout only two days. At her previous farm, she walked in and out of her stall and paddock freely while led. In addition, she walked through 2 gates to get in to her "new field", but then after about 6 hours of turnout (nothing bad happened, just the usual introductory behavior such as running a bit), the mare refused to go out of the pasture gate when it was time to come in for the night (the other horses were out of sight over a hill). The only way to get her in her stall for the night (after two hours trying several methods each night), was to blindfold her. This has happened on two consecutive nights, no matter which stall. She doesn't freak out, she just *refuses**to**budge**!! She came from a race training facility. This type of behavior affects the most common activities of a normal daily routine and may not be manageable by the stable manager where she is currently boarded. Other than these issues her ground manners are good, and once in her stall, or in the pasture, she seems reasonably calm given the normal adjustments to a new farm. My initial theories are: that she may have had a very bad experience going through a door or gate at one time, that she really is freaking out and this is how it manifests, or that she has been badly treated in the past when challenged with new activities. Any ideas or suggestions would be most welcome. Thank you. |
Member: Hwood |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2007 - 9:16 pm: Hi, Misty . . . welcome to HA.The only thing I can think of is to train her to move forward on a cue . . . and work with her until she will obey it 100% of the time. Basically, the mare is not trained to move forward on command . . . and I have found that the best way to teach the forward cue is in a round pen, but it can be done on a lead-line if you feel safe close to the horse . . . Give her the verbal cue to move . . . and if she doesn't do it, give it again with reinforcement from a dressage whip or longe whip . . . then take the pressure off and praise her and redo it . . . until she will always move forward on cue . . . wherever she is. If doing this on a lead line, then bend her until she is forced to take a step with her front feet and then tap her forward around you. I have had horses who would rather walk sideways over me than go forward around me, and I just have to make that experience as unpleasant for them as it is for me. |
Member: Hwood |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2007 - 9:19 pm: In rereading what I just wrote, it doesn't seem clear. I meant to tap her forward only if she didn't move on the verbal cue, and only praise when you get forward movement . . . even if it is just an ear forward or a leaning forward at first. I know this horse isn't a baby, but to avoid a big fight, I'd go really slowly and start her as if she WAS a baby . . . and take any forward movement as an opportunity for praise. |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2007 - 9:53 pm: The only thing I would add to Holly's advice would be to feed her in her stall. Once she equates the stall with comfort and pleasure she should go in willingly. |
Member: Nastazja |
Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 12:30 am: Hi.We have an Arabian that does a repetitive movement while standing with her front legs spread apart, swaying from one side to the other. She was also kept in a stall for long periods of time on her previous farm and seems to be extremely uncomfortable with stalls in general. Even feeding does not work.. she stops being interested in food. I am not sure if it matters, but she is about 15 years old, and in my opinion is a little too old to overcome any trauma that she previously might have gone through that involved a stall. We also have a stallion that is 31 years old, who foams at the mouth and sweats excessively when placed in a stall. Chances are that a 5 year old mare might overcome the unknown "fear" after a little practice. Try Monty Roberts' advice, he might have some kind of a solution for problem characters like that N. |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 7:51 am: Welcome Misty,I would follow Holly's suggest with one additional plan. I'd keep the training to go forward seperate from asking her to go into the stall. Based on her history, it's understandable why she don't want to go back to her little "prison". I take it there are other horses where she is? So let them all in for grain or treats if they don't get grained, and leave her outside the door. Let her decide how bad she wants to eat. Completely ignore her, and when the others are done, out they go. She goes back to pasture too. This is a mental thing with her based on not wanting to be trapped. If you keep trying to force her into the stall all that will happen, IMO, is the relationship you are trying to establish with her will sour. Rereading your post, I am not clear if this is your horse? Are you handling her? If not, it may be hard to convince others that patience here will be better in the long run. Good luck. And remember, she won't starve, and her curiousity will get the better of her. She sounds like a smart and sensitive horse. |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 7:53 am: BTW, some horses take weeks, or months to adjust to a new home. Give her time. |
Member: Liliana |
Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 1:39 pm: Apart from all the excellent advice above, one thing comes to mind. As we know horses are individuals, and sometimes they can pick up the smell of the previous tenant and react accordingly. Another thing is that horses take longer to adjust to light changes so there might be that the stall is too small, too dark or has a window on the back wall that refracts back at her...Many times what we consider misbehaviour is simply instinct and the result of past memories. I had a mare that would not go into a stall where a horse had died months before she arrived, another got cast in a small stall and she was not going into one again, so just something else to put in the pot! |
New Member: Mistyhll |
Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 2:30 pm: Thank you all for your kind responses. Yes, I own this mare (for 3 days so far!), and because she did not display this behavior at her previous farm (I observed her twice there), this behavior of refusing to go through gates and into the stall is a bit of a surprise. I am unfortunately limited by the strict rules of the boarding facility where I currently board, so I am opting to send the mare to a natural horsemanship trainer where she will get the daily work she needs. I am familiar with and have used the principles of operant conditioning and successive approximation in the past with horses with good success, so I do appreciate and agree with all of the kind suggestions in your posts! I just wish I could make it all ok for this sweet but stubborn mare. She is not acting stressed/fearful as in sweating, snorting, dancing, or jumpiness, she just plants her feet and refuses to budge. My intention was to field board her (free at last!!!), but this problem needs to be resolved first for safety and routine care. Thanks again everyone, and thanks for the welcome - I am delighted to have joined this informative site! |
Member: Erika |
Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 3:56 pm: Misty, all that above is excellent advice. I couldn't help but be reminded of some trailer loading technique that might help, too.Particularly about making the stall/trailer a resting place. For instance, before putting the horse in, do some work with her, making her use herself somehow to the point where she would welcome a rest, then walk her into the stall and have feed ready there. I think you might want to do this when taking her out of the stall rather than the pasture though, then after "resting" for a bit you can turn her out. Meaning, don't take her from turn out to work, then stall. Take her out in the morning after being stalled in the night, work, stall (rest + treat), work, stall; then out to pasture. Make any sense to anyone else? |
Member: Nastazja |
Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 6:45 pm: Heh.. it still seems like she had been kept in a stall too long at her previous farm.. and therefore refuses to go in again.Like I said our Arabian is doing similar things, so we really avoid placing her into a stall unless necessary (my beau is a prof. horse trainer) How does she do with loading/unloading from a trailer? N |
Member: Nastazja |
Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 6:47 pm: Misty !!PS.. my suggestion is - build a run in shed.. horses are claustrophobic by nature. Trailering is another story. |
New Member: Mistyhll |
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 - 3:05 pm: Quick update on the mare's progress. Moved her to a facility where she is receiving groundwork training, natural horsemanship-style. She has a paddock with a one stall barn, where she is free to go in and out at will. She readily goes in and out of the stall herself and follows me in and out as well (while not leading). Based on her reactions to various training exercises, the trainer feels she was abused at the race training facility where she lived all her 5 years (but only had 6 months of work). We have our fingers crossed that she will learn not to fight our attempts at normal everyday activities. Unfortunately, she knows her own strength, and doesn't hesitate to use it. We are hoping she will come around but are open to the possibility that she might not be able to overcome the bad treatment in the past. A sad example of what happens to a VERY nice horse when badly handled and rushed (she is otherwise as sweet as can be, when not asked to move out of her comfort zone, she is smart, pretty, friendly, and would have been one of those GOOD mares if not so messed up). While this can happen in all disciplines, it is sadly prevalent in the racing industry. So many horses broken mentally and physically. I'm trying to help, even one horse at a time! Thanks again all, for your suggestions. |
Member: Erika |
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 - 4:16 pm: Yay! Glad to hear the mare solved her own problem. She's probably so much happier now! |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 - 4:53 pm: Excellent, Misty! |
Member: Liliana |
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 17, 2007 - 2:18 pm: Glad to hear it, obviously this a much better arrangement, and natural horsemanship gives them their own security back, you know they don't feel dominated and under pressure 24/7 |
Member: Zarr |
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 17, 2007 - 7:59 pm: Mistyhll, when we got our arab many things had gone wrong in his life there were dragons everywhere but mostly lurking in stalls! So we let him be until the huge fire erupted and we moved 17 horses out that night along with all sorts of creatures. Zarr and other horses went to a local riding stable. In the rush to get all out my husband didn't think to tell them NO stall for Zarr. When we finally got back to the stable people were staring at a closed stall that had a monster inside, Zarr! He was ripping the place apart. When my husband opened the door Zarr was so frantic that he came flying out and raced circles around my husband for several minutes before finally stopping in front of Larry and putting his head under my husbands arm; he stood there for several minutes and just shook! That was 7 years ago and just this last year will he go in a stall on his own and stay there alone, but don't shut the door! Someday your mare will just decided its all OK because you have given her the strength and freedom to make her choice.It is wonderful that you reached out to help there are so many in need. Cindy |