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Discussion on Kicks when eating grain, normally a very nice foal | |
Author | Message |
Member: Heather0 |
Posted on Monday, Nov 4, 2002 - 4:05 pm: I have a weanling filly that showed her first signs of naughty behavior when she tried to nurse off of my mare (not her mother) when I pulled her away. She snarled her nose, laid her ears back and challenged me with her butt! I won because I had the lounge whip! After that, it was dinner time and I walked her quietly without any problems to her stall. We exchanged kisses and grooming before I let her go to eat her grain. I remembered that I left her halter on and when I turned around to reach for her when her head was down eating grain, she spun around and kicked me good! I grabbed the only thing within my reach (water bucket) and smacked her butt with it. After that she had her first lounge line lesson to restablish the pecking order. After that she was fine for a couple days. Know she is doing it again. I went over towards her to move her hay out from under her feet and she almost got me in the head! This foal is otherwise, smart, sweet, huggable and a real people lover.What should I be doing to stop this behavior? Should I stay away from her and not give her any chance to act that way or do I need to establish something with her. Like I'm the boss and shes not! Help. |
Member: Amara |
Posted on Monday, Nov 4, 2002 - 7:00 pm: Hi there..while kissing and grooming can oftentimes be a traidtional way to develop a relationship with a horse, it can also encourage the horse to believe that you are a subordinate member of the herd, esp. if the horse you are handling has a dominant personality...(it sounds like she does!)... so when she sees you as a subordinate member, then she thinks "how dare you come near my grain!", and, proper etiquette for a dominat member of the herd is to chase the lower member away....all food is hers till shedoesnt want it anymore.. i would probably stop all the kissing, groom only minimally, and reinforce the idea that YOU are the leader, alway... she leads behind you, at a respectable distance (usually 8-12 ft., depending on age)... she waits to eat till you are done with the food, however long it takes.. she always faces you anytime you come into her space... she gives you her eye when you put on the halter (and never slide the halter over the ears)..)... stuff like that will establish YOU as the dominant member of the herd... my horses do this... they willingly leave their grain when i go into their stall...always face me when i ask for their attention... even in pasture...the stallion doesnt even call to the mares when he's being led by me, cause he's not the dominant member of the group when he's with me.. good luck.. our baby used to be like this to till we started handling her this way...she's a pussy cat now!... |
Member: Westks |
Posted on Monday, Nov 4, 2002 - 7:24 pm: I strongly disagree with one suggestion Of Melissa's. It is my opinion the quickest way to get hurt is to have a horse exhibiting dominant behavior on a a lead 8' to 10' behind you.It is my opinion that the horses head should be at your shoulder so you can see ears and signs of explosion prior to it happening. |
Member: Amara |
Posted on Monday, Nov 4, 2002 - 7:54 pm: well, i should have explained my thinking more..by putting a horse 8 or more feet behind you, you are telling that horse that you are the leader... when a horse leads next to you, that horse becomes your equal,or perhaps, the leader.. when the horse is behind you, you certainly must know what is goig on all the time... on more unpredictable horses i walk with my head turned all the time,so i can watch body language, and am ready to move that horse back or use proper discipline to remind that horse of its place.. never completely turn your back on a dangerous horse (and yes, all horses can be dangerous, so always know where any horse is..).. as a herd animal, the leader leads, and the subordinates follow... never does a subordinate get in front... no matter how much we have tried to domesticate the horse, he is still the same genetically encoded animal as a wild horse, and completely understands correct herd bahavior... by letting her lead next to you,she'll not understand where her place is, and your attempt to correct her bahavior later will only lead to resentment, which will only lead to further misbehavior... do everything that you can to show her that you are the LEADER |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 5, 2002 - 4:47 am: Melissa, I am not sure I agree trailing the foal on a loose lead communicates dominance and I do agree it is a great way to get kicked. They become either pissed or playful and run past you kicking as they go. I have seen it several times myself. The dominant horses in my herds tend to "push" the other horses, not lead them...unless going to the feed barn. It may be ambiguous and I don't think is as strong a message as "you have to stay right here on my shoulder" at least when the message is conveyed unambiguously.Heather this type behavior is common in foals, particularly foals that are kissed often. The lesson for you in this is that "the lesson rarely take in 1 or even a 12 lessons" it takes consistency and repetition. For more on correcting bad behavior see, Training Horses » Behavioral Problems » Aggression in Horses. DrO |
Member: Heather0 |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 6, 2002 - 4:38 pm: Sorry for the double postThanks Heather PS. You can see how cute she is at www.treefrogstables.com go to foals! |
Member: Heather0 |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 6, 2002 - 4:39 pm: Thank you for your advise. I was doing really good then I lost my head and gave her kiss. She is so adorable it is hard to stopI realize that she will be a better mare if I stick to my guns. Thanks Heather PS. You can see how cute she is at www.treefrogstables.com go to foals! |
Member: Parfait |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 6, 2002 - 6:21 pm: Heather,FWIW, I have a full grown mare that used to be a kissed-on bottle fed baby and she is a full grown nightmare. She would have been a fabulous mare. I know her parents and she should have been sweet but she's not, she's a witch. I hope you can remember that when you train your baby everyday...you're making a mare. Have fun and good luck! Kerry |
Member: Parfait |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 6, 2002 - 6:26 pm: Heather, All that aside she *is* very very cute!!!KMB |
Board Administrator Username: Admin |
Posted on Thursday, Nov 7, 2002 - 8:25 am: Don't get me wrong, kissing foals is great fun that I have partaken of myself, but as Kerry reminds us above, those that get kissed often are usually those that are not disciplined enough.DrO |
Member: Thomboy |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 12, 2002 - 1:28 pm: Well, I just have to put in my two cents here. I believe that kissing and loving on a foal is the same as most medications out there...given in moderation and with correct administration it can be very beneficial.I have an 18-month-old filly that has been kissed on since she was about 10 minutes old (she will even give me kisses when I ask her to). She is the best little horse in the world and is full of trust AND respect. I have always been able to reprimand her without fear of "hard feelings" afterwards because she knows that I, like her mother, love her very much, but demand respect. The first time (about 4 months ago) that I actually had to smack her on the butt, she was heartbroken. She immediately DrOpped her head and slowly approached me, then waited for me to allow the approach and very gently stroked her head on my arm as if to say "I'm sorry Mommy." She has never repeated the behaviour again. I believe our baby horses should be treated with the same love and respect our children are, and I know my children could not go a day without me giving them hugs and kisses and telling them how much I love them, thus I would not expect my foals to either. In the same token, my children will not do things they are not supposed to and neither will my foals or they will be reprimanded, but I make sure they all know that I love them very much just as my parents did me!!! With that said, you just kiss your little girl but make sure you temper it with discipline as well and you two will be just fine!!!!! |
Member: Parfait |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 12, 2002 - 7:27 pm: I've kind of come to the conclusion that my horses don't see me as a leader because I hit them or because I kiss them.I think both of those things are fairly meaningless to my horses as far as having them see me as the Alpha. I move my horses around. I make them do things they don't want to do too much. If they are really cranky babies, I make them stand perfectly still for their baths...stuff like that. I clip their ears. Vacuume them. Ground tie. Stuff that is just a little hard for them to comply with or make them stay just a little longer than they want to stand. By working around them this way the horses look to me as the boss and it's fun for me (and safer).It sounds like there are some subtleties that Heather might be missing in the everyday language between the herself and the foal. I think maybe going a bit without cuddling could be a good start until she gets herself established again. I know that loving my horses like I do means more to me than to them. If they could talk, I wish they would say they loved me back, however I'm sure they would only say, "Hey, here comes the Feeder!" Kerry |
Member: Heather0 |
Posted on Thursday, Nov 14, 2002 - 7:30 am: well I have a new baby already. We have always had daily lesson in standing, grooming, leading, etc. But they used to end with hugs and kisses. Now they end with a pat on the neck. She has not shown one sign of aggression in days. She greets me at the door whenever I go to her stall. She DrOps her head in the halter to go outside. She has really changed. I did notice what seemed to be pouting at first. She did a lot of yelling for me when the cold shoulder first started. Now it is just the way things are. She is also being turned out with my bossy old pony. This pony lets her graize when shes done. She bosses her around for a good half hour when they are first turned out together. I think this has all been a part of her not feeling so bold.Thanks to everyone that posted the advise!!! It was all a great deal of help. |