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Discussion on Won't go off the leg and bucks into canter... | |
Author | Message |
Member: Imogen |
Posted on Monday, Jul 28, 2003 - 3:43 am: Dear allI just did a dressage competition on my half-bred hunter for the first time. It was a disaster! This mare has nice paces and when her brain is engaged she can go well though she does not have "extravagant" continental-style elevation. The problem is, unless she is following other horses (she has done a lot of hunting) she is fairly dead to the leg. I don't use spurs for normal schooling, but I do for competitions. When I do, she bucks going into canter and if you apply extra inside leg to get her around the corners. She is a big mare and riding her is a little like handling a tank - definitely no power steering on this one! I am not wedded to the spurs I just don't have any idea how to get her into canter at all during a test if I don't wear them. What I am doing is not working and I'm looking for other ideas. I very much like Chris' description of the 1-2-3 mule motivator in another thread in this section. The problem is, she also bucks if you use the dressage crop at stage 3 and even on some occasions gives a little rear. They are not difficult bucks to sit or anything, but they certainly affect your dressage score... So, any suggestions? I am pretty sure one difficulty is that I am not allowing her enough time to respond because I feel she is so dead - I think I need to ask for all transitions earlier and more quietly compared to my other mare who is extremely sensitive and has whoa problems not go problems. When I am schooling I sometimes give her a round of jumps first as this perks her up - I don't think she particularly enjoys dressage... and the judge yesterday suggested giving her a good gallop before the test when possible (which is not often as it rather upsets the other competitors!). I do lots of transitions and lots of collection/extension when I am working in to try to get her more "up and under". Thanks for any ideas anyone has. Imogen |
Member: Parfait |
Posted on Monday, Jul 28, 2003 - 4:36 pm: Imogen,I once re-schooled a horse using Jane Savoie's technique of "putting the horse in front of your leg". It involved asking the horse lightly with your leg to go forward, if you got no response you chased it forward with a crop (or used your leg as vigorously as neccesary--she advocated this with buckers) and then (this is the important part, go back and ask again lightly and if the request was answered, praise generously! If the horse was again slugglish, chase them forward. I used this technique religiously and it worked quickly on a very dead horse. This doesn't sound like it would work immediately for you and I have heard some disparaging remarks from the dressage purists regarding Savoie...But maybe you could put that mare on a lunge and give her verbal commands with a lunge whip in hand and eventually have her doing some tidy canter/trot/walk/canter transitions on the quarters and then maybe use those verbal commands in conjunction with sharpened legs? This would save you the bucks and might sharpen her up a bit? Kerry |
Member: Imogen |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 - 2:46 am: Yes, she lunges away fine so that might be a route to go although of course you are not allowed to use your voice in a dressage competition. I will also try the Jane Savoie technique and report back!There is just a switch that goes off in her brain when she realises it's boring old dressage and there are no pals in the arena with her... same horse will spook at something hacking home and be halfway up the road so it's definitely either a communication difficulty between us or boredom/avoidance of work - it's not lack of fitness or any physical problem. All the best Imogen |
Member: Erika |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 - 8:14 am: Imogen,I like the Savoie method,too. One more thought, does it only occur when the horse knows she's in a ring where you won't get after her vigorously (during a test)? Perhaps you can "fake" a show ring test and surprise her a few times. Or take her to a schooling show where it won't matter if you win or not, and use that time to enforce your cues effectively. I always am amazed at how quickly horses figure out when we will follow through, and when we will not! Good luck. By the way, love this site. Erika (Martha) |
Member: Parfait |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 - 12:33 pm: Yes, I like the fake test idea also. That might give her a real jolt!I have also heard many times that you should re-apply the spur or whip (or whatever) to a bucker until the horse accepts the punishment and tolerates it without bucking. This always sounded like putting on a bit of a fight to me but if you want to fasten your seatbelt you could also give that a try...just something I forgot to mention and you perhaps have already done this. Kerry |
Member: Imogen |
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 - 3:21 am: I'd say the arena problem is probably mainly me stressing out about her not going forward and reinforcing whatever is going wrong (eg undiplomatic spurring...).But generally this mare is just a lazy cow going away from other horses - eg first 5 minutes of any hack going away from home, or if she has to do cross country on her own. The only thing she shows much enthusiasm for doing on her own is showjumping. If there are other horses involved, no problem... I'm having a lesson with her tonight, will report back how we get on! Imogen |
Member: Chrism |
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 - 12:10 pm: I don't like to change what I do at home and what I do at a show - so, for example, I always carry a whip and if I am ever likely to use/need spurs, I wear them. I always use the "show equipment" for several weeks before I have a show.Now, a whip or spur should not be a surprise to the horse. Try using your whip as a touch, than a tap, rather than a strike out of the blue. If a horse is overly sensitive to the whip behind your leg, try using it on the shoulder. I've at least one ODG on record who suggests this. As far as the spur - I really prefer to reserve spurs for finessing lateral movements and like to think of them as a gentle prod, as if my index finger were down there, suggesting move the hind limb over. Imogene, I know some horses are lazier than others. One trick is to always do the opposite of what the horse wants to do - so, for example, with a lazy horse, I'd do lots of trot canter trot transitions on long walls. For a speedy horse, I'd do more walk/trot/walk and walk/canter/walk transitions on a 20m circle or going into a turn. Also, be sure to give your horse time, every ride, to readjust to carrying the rider's weight. So, my favorite warm up is active walking on loose reins while the horse looks around - just concentrate on getting her stepping under. Then, pick up the reins ever so gently, but with contact (forget the bearing of the neck/head) and ask for working trot, again keeping attention to the energy of the hind legs. Then, I'll do a little leg yield at the walk and if that is successful, begin the transition work and lateral work at trot - building from there. Warm up can easily take 20 minutes. If the horse goes behind the vertical, it tells me to use more leg. If the horse inverts, it tells me to use more leg. More leg - not in a nagging way, but in a purposeful way. Legs lay on the sides and squeeze when forward is wanted. Ideally, they squeeze as the hind leg that is wanting influence is liftin in the air. If it is on the ground, it is planted and can't be influenced. So, in a LY walk, you squeeze with the inside leg as the horse's inside hind is becoming airborn. Okay, so I've not really answered your question of "how to get a horse more forward" but instead laid out a pattern for warm up at home and the shows that will help the horse transition to work in a consistent fashion. It is based on Zettl's instruction techniques. And, of course, the 1-2-3 method of increasing the request for forward does indeed come into play as you are engaging the hind leg. Cheers. Let us know how things progress. |
Member: Imogen |
Posted on Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 - 3:30 am: Well, I rode her over to my friend's arena where the lesson was being held using the Jane Lavoie technique. There was a bit of heisting at first but she was going into trot at a gentle squeeze by the time I got there (it's about 3 miles).In the arena initially it was the same old story, exhausted me kicking away and the horse just ambling around. I discussed it with the instructor and we decided to continue with light squeeze - more active leg - then a smack with the crop and once she was going, then almost no leg at all, lots of weight in the heels and just light squeezes to make her carry me more effectively. The other thing the instructor suggested was almost opposite to what Chris said - ie if she objects to the dressage crop by heisting or tail-swishing, then give it her again until she accepts and does what is required. Each time she didn't carry out a transition smartly when I asked she got that, then we went back and did it again with a pat and praise whenever she did it right. It worked quite well, I really felt there was progress. I also do think that this mare is mildly mentally slow (I always did think this...) and has about a half second delay between the aid and the change in pace which has to be allowed for. The only thing I find a bit difficult is because I don't know the former owners (bought her from a dealer) I have no idea what she is used to as "praise". I always pat the neck and say "GOOD Girl" but she does not react like my other mare, which preens when praised and clearly knows when she's been good. The instructor also suggested a version of what Chris is suggesting for working in - ie almost no contact, just getting her really going forward for the first 10 minutes or so before starting to ask for an outline. She recommended working in canter in the forward "cross-country" seat on the long side of the arena, and back to working canter on the short side and this definitely helped too. So thanks all, I'll keep going and any remarkable successes or failures will be reported back... Imogen |