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HorseAdvice.com » Training, Behavior, & Conditioning Horses » Behavioral Problems » Fear of Specific Objects » |
Discussion on Jumping issues | |
Author | Message |
Member: kstud |
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 9:49 am: Hi all,I hate to complain because my little horse is a total darling but I am having a small problem that seems to be growing. Have had my horse for 6 months from just broken and he is a gentleman, he will ride past the most scary things and in the heaviest traffic on his own or in company. You can gallop him in an open field or walk on a long rein as you choose and he is equally relaxed. I have won with him at registered dressage and he behaves perfectly at shows. He boxes on his own, stands quiet for the farrier, can clip him with no restraint, catch him, worm him etc etc. So I hate to quibble but I like jumping and he is exceptionally good at it, the problem is that as a 3 and 4 yo he was jumped loose and on the lunge by his previous owners who have a reputation in that discipline. He won a big competition but never grew and so was sold just backed as a 5yo to me. I think he must have been scared because he is such a laid back horse normally but if you even ride him to a pole on the ground he will back off, screech to a halt and run out all scared. I calmly circle and represent him until he quietly steps over. After that he will jump that jump happily but if you put up another jump then you have to do the whole process again. He is fine mostly cross country, may take a look at something unusual but no extreme reaction. I can jump him 3ft 3in cross country no problem but he will freak at literally 6inches of a show jump. I have tried acclimatising him by just trotting over tiny tiny x's every day at home but if you miss one day he is back to square one again the next. I took him to a showgrounds where there was a full tack of fences and after the initial freak out he jumped everything including 2 different water trays first attempt and planks and fillers. Next day at home BANG, freak out at tiny x again! My problem is threefold, 1. he will not jump ANYTHING first attempt even if it is just a pole on the ground without theatrics. 2. When he jumps he may jump calmly or he may jump as if it is on fire which is very difficult to sit and there is never any indication which it will be. 3. If he jumps like it is on fire he gets excited when he lands. Actually there are 4 problems, 4. In order to insist he jumps I have to ride in a driving forward way slightly behind him to keep him in front of me which if he jumps big means that I get a little left behind and so he stiffens against me and so a vicious circle could start. Any ideas? I do not mind the jumping like a novice bit but I am concerned that despite weeks of easy tiny fences and poles he comes out every day acting like it is all new. |
Member: jerre |
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:56 am: He really sounds lovely, and quite a thinker, so maybe you could try something unconventional to "sweeten the deal."It sounds like you've done a good job with the traditional approach, but for the time being have stalled on on progress with it. What would happen if you put a grain bucket on the landing side, and he got to stop for a bite after a jump? Of course, you don't want to create the expectation that he can stop and eat after every jump, but if it helps him change his focus, then you can vary it to after every two jumps, or some buckets are empty, some have treats, etc. He only gets a treat with a calm jump. Until the jumping is not any kind of issue. Be very observant, mix it up, and don't create a new pattern. Just curious. If you try it, let us know! Jerre |
New Member: ekaufman |
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 12:25 pm: Hi Catherine,This horse is lucky to have such a patient and flexible trainer. I might try one different thing. This is how I start all my horses over obstacles, which is in hand. Scatter some small rails, lumps and bumps (nothing challenging) around outside of the normal schooling area, and simply lead him over them. It's ok for the person to go first, but he must follow you, since those are the rules about leaDrOpes. Make it a game-- stop for grass when he does a few well, and praise a lot (sounds like you would do this anyhow). The graduation path is that, when he follows well, ask him to go over at your side, with you bypassing the obstacle. Next step is the lunge, and after that is free jumping, etc.. The actual obstacles don't matter-- it's the horse's own confidence that is the object. It sounds to me like he was bullied over jumps w/o ever developing an eye. I have a mare like that-- she could jump the moon under saddle, but panicked if she had to figure something out herself. The trick for mine was to start her like she'd never jumped, and let her develop her own eye and confidence. For me, at least, it took a few months and translated beautifully back to under-saddle work. |
Member: paardex |
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 1:02 pm: I agree with Elizabeth.It seems like he was 'overtaken' initially. And I've found that especially the very good jumpers are really really careful so if he got a good fright it will take time. But I am sure in the end he will be worth it. Just take him to step one as if he never jumped and do it as slowly as possible and I am sure he will reward you. I like him wanting to stop and see first very much and even better if he jumps after that with no problem, I've known great showjumpers start out like that! The only other thing I want to add to Elizabeths message: I also have seen horses with a very good natural eye who didn't trust the rider to interfere in the beginning because with all the free jumping they got used to making their own decisions. You know the horse and can sort out which applies to him Jos |
Member: kstud |
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 3:36 pm: Thank you all, I think that you are right, at the moment even being ridden over a pole in the school is too much so I will start from in -hand. He must have really got a fright with coloured poles as he will jump anything we meet cantering in the woods without a thought including some big tree trunks! He has a much better eye than me for a stride and when they are babies I do not try to set them up, I let them find their own balance and stride so I think it is a fear thing. To be honest I would think that he has been rapped as he will happily walk over a rustic pole but have a heart attack at a coloured one.He gets hacked three days a week, schooled twice . a free day and then usually brought to a show or somewhere new on the weekend. I am not competing him at shows, just take him out for the day as it were and ride around the warm up etc and he is fine with all this. On the days I hack out I will ride him up into the arena when I get back (stops them being nappy towards home if they know they will have to do more work), he is NEVER nappy by the way, then I try to walk him over a few poles randomly scattered and then build up to a tiny x. This is as far as I have got though as he acts up like its scary every day so I will go back to basics. |
Member: imogen |
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 3:54 pm: Do you think he was rapped?Imogen |
Member: kstud |
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 5:55 pm: yes I do Imogen as he is naturally very very laid back and he passes no heed to forestry poles or natural obstacles or even cattle grids and water trays, only coloured poles! |
Member: imogen |
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 2:25 am: Have you tried eg putting old poles in the field with him, ground work that does involve touching them in totally relaxed circumstances etc. without getting a belt?I would imagine it will be a long process with much repetition but his basic temperament sounds so good it would be worth it if you can find the time! I am going to the BHS summer camp at Kildalton next week and I will ask the exalted ones (BHS Fellows) for suggestions for you. I have occasionally seen horses where the history is known and there was no rapping that are like this and I have always wondered if it is a vision problem but usually they are spooky about other things as well (eg forestry black and yellow barriers). All the best Imogen |
Member: canderso |
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 7:35 am: Hi Catherine,Kiff really is lovely and deserves every minute of extra care. Is his reaction when he is in hand as well as under saddle? What about when he is completely loose? I wonder if desensitization methods would work ... which would mean things like, as Imogen suggests, leaving coloured poles and jumps out where he has to get used to seeing them, and setting up situations where he can (successfully) learn to deal with them in every day circumstances. I would be tempted to try to work to the point that he has to step over a pole to eat, get in and out of his stall, get into a field, move around the yard, while out on hacks ... where possible, loose, then in hand, then under saddle, and only then reintroduce ring work with trot poles/cavaletti then again with jumps. Good luck, Cheryl |
Member: ellab |
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:52 pm: Make a box out of the poles and put his grain inside so he has to step over to get his food. Do the same with his hay. After it is no big deal change the configuration of it. Make a little box out of cross rails and put him in it. Let him loose until he chooses to go over it because he is board.Once he is going over by himself and doing the same from the inhand work find a friend with a dead quiet horse that will quietly canter over small jumps. Start with just poles and follow the other horse. Most horses love to follow and find it fun. It taps into the herd mentality. Ella B |
Member: kstud |
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 6:17 pm: funny you should say that about the forestry barriers Imogen because he does look at them too! He seems to have excellent sight though but I think that he is just very very careful. He totally ignores coloured poles when he is loose or in hand and happily walks over them and even stands on them! He is also ok about them in a field BUT it you put the pole between two jump stands up goes the head so I think we are definitely back to a previous experience issue.Hi Cheryl, I have been off line for ages as I have been snowed under. I am going to just do a line of trotting poles every day for a while and then make the last one an x and see how that goes. It is strange that once he has done it once he completely chills out but only for that jump. He is better however in canter than trot however that fits in? Catherine |