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Discussion on Rearing and refusing to be tied | |
Author | Message |
Member: Gillb |
Posted on Thursday, Apr 14, 2005 - 4:19 pm: I suppose these are two separate issues! I have a young (rising 2) Dales pony filly (a UK native breed) who uses rearing very easily when she is stressed or asked to do something she doesn't want to do. She is a large, strongly built pony who will make around 15hh and knows how to use her strength. I've had to resort to leading her in a chifney because of her habit of rearing, and I am wondering if this behaviour is likely to continue under saddle and what would be the best way to deal with it. She has had no bad experiences in her life as far as I am aware, just living in a herd from birth, but she is very herd-bound and bonds strongly to others.Also she does not like to be tied or restrained and when tied she will paw violently on the ground, and rear. I've totally ignored her and have gone away and left her tied (while observing her from the house) and she has pawed and reared for nearly two hours! I've also tried clicker training, clicking and treating when she stands still and ignoring other behaviour, but this does not seem to be effective either. Any advise on the best way to deal with these two issues? |
Member: Dres |
Posted on Thursday, Apr 14, 2005 - 5:15 pm: Gill, I had a mare that went thru the ''terrible'' two's .. when leading her in at night all I saw was her belly button, this mare was at that time over 16 hands tall * she now is just under 17 hands at 4*... anyway I had to lead her with a lunge rope so that I could get out of her way but not have to let go.. I took her to a local cowboy and he ponied her off his little 1/4 horse, she would rear and pull and wiggle, but that little 1/4 horse stayed by her side and would almost knock her down.. after two days of this the rearing stopped... YES, she has reared under saddle now too.. I have learned not to push her to fast or block her in any way, she is schooling training level in dressage and will do as I teach her I just have to sometimes give her more time then I would my others to figure out just what I am asking...Tying was an issue with her too.. she would rear and wiggle everytime I put her to the tree, BUT she did learn, one time she wiggled so violently she smashed her face on the tree, it swelled hugely , I had to have the vet out to check her teeth.. *all were fine* BE CAREFUL ... They do grow up On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS.. |
Member: Liliana |
Posted on Thursday, Apr 14, 2005 - 5:18 pm: How long have you had your Dales pony? In deed they are herd oriented, stubborn but very intelligent.I ask because our Scarlet did the same, she could not be tied up, you could not get her to pick her feet and she send passengers flying in a flash. Eventually I got the truth from the previous owner, she had gone down to the ground once while being shod, the farrier lifted her hind leg up and out and she went tumbling down. As a result she injured her back hence the flying riders and her rearing to get away from everything. Sheer panic. Lots of patience and reassurance for the best part of a year has given us a perfectly mannered rideable mare. We thought it could not be possible, but, it paid off. It sounds like fear to me I would not imprint that any more if I were you. Best of luck, Liliana |
Member: Gillb |
Posted on Thursday, Apr 14, 2005 - 6:09 pm: HI Ann, I have been reading your previous posts with interest! You have really been through it with your mare. Don't know of anywhere around here (UK) that would use those methods of ponying, I take it its a kind of cowboy thing? I suppose the rearing under saddle is what I'm afraid of, as she seems to use it so easily when faced with something she doesn't like.Liliana, I've had this filly since last October, I bought her with a weanling and unfortunately the two are extremely bonded. She was very bonded to another horse prior to the weanling, and she reacted just as stressfully when she was separated from that horse. In the field she is calm, loving and affectionate, but does seem to be one of those horses who has to have a strong bond with another. I have no problem grooming her or picking out her feet. |
Member: Liliana |
Posted on Thursday, Apr 14, 2005 - 6:50 pm: Gill,Is there any way you could find out more about her past. I feel that it always helps. By the way, I love the picture in your profile!!! Whats his/her name? |
Member: Dres |
Posted on Thursday, Apr 14, 2005 - 7:00 pm: Gill, I agree with Liliana, lots of patience, my filly has really come around now.. and she adores ME...On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS.. |
Member: Christos |
Posted on Friday, Apr 15, 2005 - 5:09 am: Gill,If she is not used to being alone and she is not used to being tied either, tying her alone where she can see other horses may be asking too much. I'd first leave her alone in the stall for longer and longer periods until she's really cool about it. When tying her, I'd tie another horse close by where she can see it, it adds some comfort. When she is ok being left alone in the stall and she ties well next to another horse, you can tie her alone in the stall. After she ties well in the stall, you can tie her outside, but this time where she can't see or hear other horses. After she ties well all alone outside, you can turn other horses out where she can see them, she won't make such a fuss. All the best, Christos |
Member: Gillb |
Posted on Friday, Apr 15, 2005 - 5:10 am: Hi Liliana, I am certain that this filly would have had nothing but love during her first year - she was bred by a good friend of mine who adores her ponies and all the foals are together with their mums in one field until they are weaned. The weanlings then go into another field together with some older ponies, so she should have had the proper 'horsey' education in her early life.However the rearing was evident when I first went to view her as a yearling, when another 'herd buddy' was led away. She also objected to loading by rearing for two and a half hours when we went to collect her!! The pony in my pic is my lovely old dependable Dales Dan, who I've had for 11 years (he's nearly 18 now, and pure white!). Anne I'm glad for you that things have turned out well, there may be hope for me then! I have a feeling that this filly will be very loyal once I've gained her trust. |
Member: Gillb |
Posted on Friday, Apr 15, 2005 - 5:18 am: HI Christos, this filly still will not stand tied even if there are other horses on the yard, I have had three others on the yard with her and she just fidgets and paws non-stop. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether you ignore her or not!Do you think it would beneficial to bring her in and stable her completely on her own, so I can try and build up a bond with her? The trouble is I can't put her out of earshot of the others, the companion does neigh for her even though she is two fields away. |
Member: Christos |
Posted on Friday, Apr 15, 2005 - 10:29 am: Yes, Gill, I believe that it will be very beneficial.I do not think, however, that this is the time to try and build a bond with her. She'll be upset missing her pasturemates, and you do not want her to subsitute you for them. She may start playing with you in her frustration and you'll have to correct her, which won't be very productive since she'll be already upset and frustrated. I think it is better to leave her all alone until she accepts it calmly. Neighing is not such a problem. It winds them up a bit in the beginning but it will subside within a week or so. You can actually use it as an indicator of how things are progressing. |
Member: Kcovell |
Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 - 7:22 am: GillI don't know if you have ever heard of a Blocker Tie Ring, but it works and it's used for horses that don't tie well. What it does is when the horse does something that tightens the rope it gives the rope more slack. I have a horse that pulls back and I can tell you it works. If you go to the web site I've provided you can see a video or how it works and decide if it might work for you. www.toklat.com KC |
Member: Liliana |
Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 - 2:54 pm: Hi Gill,This reminded me of Patch and also Satin, she would pull the tie ring right off the wall when she threw her wobblies, may be Patch has gone to heaven now, she went to Red Wings when I left England. Polos worked great as you know, when ever you visit her in her stable, also perhaps hanging a turnip so that she can play with it while in the stable to keep her mind off her mates. Hang in there, it will pay off I'm sure. All the best, Liliana |
Member: Meggles |
Posted on Friday, Apr 22, 2005 - 5:41 pm: Gill. I don't know if this will be of interest but I have been working through some natural horsemanship stuff (namely Parelli) with my horse for the last two years and its made such a big difference to the relationship I have with her. I also know of a number of people who have seen big benefits from this, including those with youngsters who are known to barge, rear etc. I was considering what you said about your little mare and my view would be that you need to tacke this now whilst she is young enough to learn to feel secure through a combination of trust and understanding what is expected of her. Horses like this grow up and if not tackled now, she may always be like this. A friend of mine purchased a six year old horse from a dealer who was very herd bound, would rear, spin, paw the ground etc and the problem never got better. Eventually she was unrideable, by even the best instructor as the problem was so deep rooted. She was sent back to the dealer in the end and was put to sleep due to her behaviour being dangerous.I think you have an opportunity whilst your girl is so young to start to help her. You can practice these techniques anywhere and could actually start in the field whilst she's with her pals, getting her interested and listening to you with fun things that make her think and learn and gradually move her away from them, short distances at first (even the other end of the field would do) and always returning her after short periods of time, gradually increasing the time away. When dealing with her on the ground I would also avoid leaving her initially, but stick around and keep her interested in what you are going to do next. In terms of asking her to stay put, you could always start by just asking her to stand still with the leaDrOpe DrOpped to the floor and reward her for just a few seconds at a time initially. If she moves, just calmly put her back in place and be very clear with your rewards / praise for good behaviour. You could progress to walking out of her sight for just half a minute or so before coming back and doing something else constructive with her, preferably before she's even had chance to think about shouting and pawing. There is a good support network with Parelli across the UK, including one to one help, group workshops etc and its suitable for everyone, no matter how experienced or inexperienced. I'm by no means an expert when it comes to horses but I have learned a great deal on the programme. It might be worth considering. Their website is www.parelli.biz. You have to shell out initially for level 1 membership but its well worth it. |