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Discussion on Fast Onset Rearing/Challenging | |
Author | Message |
Member: l8rider |
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 1:16 pm: I have read the recent posts re: rearing but need professional advice re: fast onset rearing and challenging.Here are the particulars: 16 H. Apendix/Arab cross 4 Yrs. Trained in Mexico Is attentive and picks cues up quickly (ie changing from Spanish to English voice commands) Works well on the lunge line, but my prefered method is to work at liberty in our 66' round pen. Has been working quietly, obediently in pen, in small open ring and in very large arena. Has also behaved extremely well out on the trail (hills, gullies, barking dogs, other horses passing, 24 noisy quads in a row and a jiggy trail mate did not phase him. His only faults to date are 1) when working in the round pen, he will lower his head and shake it, but continue his circles. (I take this as a passive/ aggressive behavior and youth.) 2) He acts "studie" when meeting new horses by squealing and striking towards them. The other horses have been in their stalls and I don't let him get too close. On the trail he doesn't seem to challenge them. Here's the problem: A couple of days ago several of us were going to ride. Two of us were mounted when a young girl mounted her pinto gelding. He's always been a bit of a wild card and this day he took off like a rodeo bronc (head between the legs bucking and racing around) For the next 20 min. three different people mounted this hot pinto, each one cranking down harder on the bit which, of course, made the matter worse. By the end of the 20 min. not only was the pinto hyper (of course) but my gelding and the mare were both acting up. My gelding has never done this with me...little bucks, fighting to get away from me. The three of us finally made it down to the arena and training course, but all three horses continued to feed off the tension and ea. other. My gelding finally settled down when we went out on the mountain trail, but I had to pay attention. The other two never settled down. Since that episode (3 days ago) when I work Kachina in the round pen, he not only puts his head down and shakes, but he has become very challenging. Cutting into the middle of the ring with moderate challenge to me, and when I flick the longe line toward him and growl he rears at me, may swing his quarters and do a low kick, shaking his head, getting closer and closer with the rearing. Trying to disengage him/ send him out takes some effort and then he tries to return to the challenge. So far I have been able to fake him out and make him work again to the point of him licking his lips. When we finish work, he is hooked on and follows me around like a puppy again. A little bit more background (which is now making more sence to me)...here in Mexico they "train" Charro horses (similar to our working cow horse) to "dance" or do the "spanish walk". The method I have witnessed is that they often use bicycle chain as nose bands/chin straps, tie the horse to a tree or post, and whip their legs, getting them to "dance". Same method as the old gunslinger who will shoot at the feet of a green horn and demand he "dance". I purchased this horse from a trainer and believed he was not treated in such a manner. The horse was fit, CALM, (unlike the wild eyed, scarred, half starved ones I usually see). The trainer never said anything about teaching this horse to "dance". HOWEVER, quite by accident, I had picked up a lunge whip someone had left on the ground, and tapped it on the ground while talking with someone and holding my horse. He struck left, right, left, right with his front feet;obviously, someone had been training him to spanish walk. He was not happy with the whip. Today I had a trainer work Kachina in the round pen (to see if it was just me) and he was very challenging to her as well...same conditions. I think I need to take this young boy back to the basics of ground training. I also thought I might do my "mare challenge" of squealing, backing toward him with a kicking foot and elbow. (I just challenge but don't make contact as normally the offending horse starts backing up quickly and respects my alpha mare posture.) I don't want to try ANYTHING, however, that will contribute to the problem, put myself or my horse at risk. I also cannot let him continue this behavior. Any suggestions from you professional trainers? |
Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 5:20 pm: I am not close to a professional trainer by any means but some things come to my mind reading about your problems.First of all this is a young horse, and how long have you had him? Has he had time (his time frame, which may be 6 months to a year) to settle in his new environment? Has he had time to be a horse without training demands? He may have been trained with the methods you described above. If so, you need to back off and just bond with him, forget about training in the normal sense. I'd put whips and lunge lines away and wear a helmet, keep a very short riding crop in hand if you feel he's going to challenge you and invade your space. Just in the stall, and pasture for now..forget the round pen. Do NOT go riding with the above mentioned group..I just cringed at the treatment of that pinto by various riders trying to what? Teach an untrained horse horse to go quietly when the time to do that is before going on a trail ride? So your horse, with an unknown backround, was reminded of what a whip is for, and also experienced lots of excitement that may have triggered something in his past. And he may now be associating you with that trigger, and is trying to defend himself. Not sure if I'd even do the "alpha mare" thing. A sharp NO may be the thing. That's just my opinion...trying to see it through his eyes. It always good to back off, and just observe. Don't make any assumptions! And of course, stay safe. |
Member: l8rider |
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 10:29 am: Angi,thanks for your response...any input is helpful and appreciated. I have only had Kachina (the rearing one)for five weeks. With any newcomer, I just pet and groom, away from the other horses, for the first week. The second week I put them in the round pen at liberty just to watch them move, play, roll, settle in, etc. and, of course, continue the hands on grooming, bathing. For week 3,4,5 I quietly work them at liberty. Kachina was such an easy guy to work with, I never even brought the lunge whip, just flicked the tail of the lead rope which I held in hand when needed. The lunge whip only came into play when I picked one up off the ground and was tapping it while talking with a bystander.Kachina and I were finished working. That's when I learned he had been in some kind of "training" for the spanish walk. You may be correct in that he now associates me with either/or the tapping of the whip and the rodeo incident. Something has definitely "clicked" in his head.In the short time I have had him, he has yet to work hard, perhaps 15/20 min. in the round pen at walk/trot (only cantering when he wanted to break into it and then I brought him back to a soft trot.) The Pinto, distasteful as that incident was, is normally treated kindly/fairly with great boarding conditions/handeling. The owner comes in a couple times a year and wants to ride. He is normally exercised by staff here at the ranch who have learned to ride him with soft hands and a loose rein.Anything heavier and he does act up. I think the girl and her mother/friend just cranked down on him in fear and that heavy hand is what he was reacting to. Anyway, thank you for your interest and response |
Member: babychop |
Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 11:57 am: If it makes you feel any better I just got womped in the head by my 3 month old colt when he caught me off guard. That smarted. Going to go over the suggestions here myself... |