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Discussion on Jumping into the lope | |
Author | Message |
New Member: krystam |
Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 12:34 pm: Please help. I have an 11 year old mare that back in July started jumping up into her lope every time she was asked. We thought it was because of a bad trim job since she stopped doing this once her feet were trimmed correctly. She then went out in her hips in September so we had an equine chiropractor out to have her adjusted. A few weeks later she started doing it again. So we had her adjusted again. She then started jumping up into the trot as well as the lope (every time). Once she gets into the lope or trot she is fine, it is just that initial transition. I dismounted and lunged her in the round pen. She did jump going into the lope and trot. I then removed all my tack and tried it again and the results were the same. I have had her jaw balanced, acupuncture and chiropractic adjustments (by a vet this time) done in the last three weeks. She is better but still not right. She is still jumping into the lope but it is not every time. It is more prominent when she is asked to lope on her right lead. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. She is collecting so that is not the problem. Thank you for any suggestions you may have. |
Member: terrido |
Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 1:12 pm: This could be any number of physical issues, or even now habit.Sounds like you have tried to narrow down the main root cause, have you thought about plain old muscle strength? It's all I can think of as a reason for not being able to do a smooth, quiet transition up. Specifically hind end strength. |
New Member: krystam |
Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 2:26 pm: Terrie, Thank you for your response. In my opinion, she is well conditioned. She had a solid 30 days of riding (1 to 2 times per week back in July). Since then she has been ridden 4 to 5 times per week with lots of transitions. She is now down to 2x week and is used 2x week for lessons. We will continue to work on building muscles. |
Member: stek |
Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 2:39 pm: In addition to muscle strength as already noted, being off balance can cause a horse to rush transitions.I am wondering, when you say she has had 30 days of riding, is this a green mare or one that is being re-trained? Some background would be helpful if this has become a behavioral issue rather than a physical one. When she is turned out does she exhibit the behavior? I started a colt a while back that I allowed to 'get his bucks' out when first lunged at the canter before riding. When we transitioned to riding without lunging first I had the devil of a time getting him to canter off without bucking, or at least leaping into the canter. Those habits can be hard to break! |
Member: terrido |
Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 4:12 pm: Krysta, I have to agree with Shannon's questions. 30 days 1-2x week a few months ago doesn't qualify as having solid muscle strength. A horse loses muscle tone within two weeks. So yes there are lots of things to consider, but Shannon's on the right track I think.Since the she "launches" in up transistions even without tack, my initial feeling is muscle strength, this will affect her balance! Without both.... well they do tend to panic. And no offense but even riding 5 times a week and doing thousands of transitions doesn't mean the horse is using her body correctly to build muscle and strength of muscle. ;] Yes one would think that the transitions alone would suffice, but not always. It can take more than that depending on what you began with. For instance, my horse was been basically out of work from June through September. We have had one month of solid consistent and correct work and she STILL doesn't have the muscle and strength to sustain a decent trot for very long. Her canter is, well it sucks. haha She was in super great condition and had been for more than 2 years, until the end of june when the fires broke out around here an I wasn't able to work her consistently. So in a bit more than just two months of no work all her muscle was gone. Contrast to three years ago when we first began together, she'd been in regular "work" being ridden 6 times a week on average. But she had zero muscle, zero strength! It took a good 8 to 10 months of solid consistent work to build up her muscle strength. Well and now we are working toward that goal once more. So, again no offense but just because she is ridden even a solid 4 times a week, that doesn't mean the riding is good exercise to help her build muscle and strength. |
Member: kriseyc |
Posted on Monday, Nov 17, 2008 - 9:47 am: Krysta, Has your vet done a lameness evaluation...flexion tests etc? that's where I would start. Good Luck! |
New Member: krystam |
Posted on Monday, Nov 17, 2008 - 1:01 pm: Will definitely look at strength and conditioning. Any recommendations?Additional history. Missy was used as a 4H roping horse until she was 7. She was then used as a broodmare. We bought her off the pasture in March on ’07 in sloppy unfit broodmare condition. We did not see the jumping into the lope issue until this year. She was getting ridden maybe 2x per week when it started. She was sent off for 30 days of solid trail riding. While there, we had her feet done by a natural trim expert. She stopped jumping into the lope almost immediately. The farrier ho had been doing her feet before the natural trim had left her bars untouched and they had overgrown. We figured that this was causing the problem. She has doing great for about 2 months when it started again. During this time, she was being ridden\trained 4x per week (4x week before she started jumping into the lope and after). She is now down to 2x per week until we can get this issue resolved. The vet is my next call. However, I have heard conflicting information regarding the flexion tests. I have a friend who had this done and her horse came up lame after the test, but was not lame before the test. I will try to get video of her lunging this weekend so you can see what she is doing. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, Nov 17, 2008 - 6:49 pm: Hello Krysta,I first looked at this as a training problem but more and more you seem to be considering this as a lameness problem. Is your horse lame other than this odd gait transition? For a description of the signs of lameness see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse. DrO |
New Member: krystam |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2008 - 11:22 am: DrO. Thank you for responding. No she only seems lame at the transition. I did recall that when this first started appearing again (September) her right hock was a bit swollen with no heat or noticeable injury that I recall. The hock has returned to normal but her jumping into up transitions continues. I am not fully convinced that this is a training issue as she had stopped doing this and then started up again. I have received your article on Localizing Lameness and found it very informative. I will be taking this information with me on Saturday to see if I notice any other symptoms. Will update with findings next week. |
Member: rtrotter |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2008 - 12:47 pm: Krysta,I noticed that in your first post, you said this problem stopped after you had her trimmed correctly, then she started doing it again and you had her adjusted. Just curious how soon after the trim was the chiropractor called out? and how long did you go between correct trimmings. Some horses are really quick to fall out of correctly balanced feet and if the time frame between trimmings is too long ( and this really depends on the horse) then the chiropractic adjustments will not last because her feet are not right. It's the old saying no foot no horse. Keeping her feet correctly trimmed and balanced for her should keep the bony column in correct alignment thus reducing the need for chiropractic adjustments. I use chiropractic, massage, acupressure and acupuncture to keep my horses in good shape physically and mentally, but my starting point is always in their feet. Rachelle |
New Member: krystam |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2008 - 5:17 pm: We had her adjusted about 4 days before her feet were trimmed. Her feet were trimmed about 8 weeks apart. Her next trim is on Dec 8th. This does put her to 10 weeks before trims. She has gone this long before without issues. The farrier doing her feet now is a balance professional. This is why I have not rescheduled the vet to come out for the second session (chiro/acupuncture) until after her feet are trimmed. I want to make sure the feet are good before we work on the rest of her. I did find a post on another site similar to my issue. There is a video online of another mare with a similar issue. I would be happy to post the link if you think it might help. I know that each horse is different but it does show this mare jumping up into up transitions |
Member: rtrotter |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2008 - 7:08 pm: Krysta,I groaned when I saw how long it was between trims:-( I know I haven't seen your horse, but it sounds like the scenario I painted in my post about too long between trims. In your post on Monday, November 17 you said that she did not have a problem for two months after her trim. So, what I'd do is shorten up the trimming cycle to every 5 weeks and save yourself the money on the chiropractic/acupuncture. See if the shorter trimming cycle fixes the transition problem. If the problem does not reoccur after a few shorter cycles you may be able to go a little longer time frame between trims. I think she is having this problem because her toes are too long after 10 weeks (or even 8 weeks) that makes her uncomfortable and she jumps into the next gait because she is trying hard to please you and wants to do what she is asked, so she does it as quickly as possible so she won't be that uncomfortable for very long. Like I said earlier, fix the feet, let her adjust to that and then get her adjusted if you think she still needs it. Rachelle |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2008 - 5:12 am: Krysta, I agree with Rachelle. If you are allowing the feet to get too long or the feet unbalanced this certainly could account for altered gait and/or lameness problems in horses. It is also the most reasonable place to start, after all it fixed the problem once before.DrO |
Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2008 - 7:53 am: YIKES!! Way too long between trims. Having toes too long, bars too long, all can cause gait problems if not outright lameness. Not to mention setting this horse up for long term problems with the toe possibly creeping forward, heels becoming underslung.I agree with Rachelle's 5 week schedule. I personally do mine every 3-4 weeks! But I like that for ease of me doing the triimming. Before more expenses are put out, I'd get her trimmed properly, and see how she does just at liberty. Perhaps a good massage then riding. I'd love to see a full side shot of her standing to see her hoofs if you care to post a picture. |
Member: krystam |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2008 - 11:53 am: First, thank you all for your suggestions. I really do appreciate them and take every suggestion into great consideration. I am not trying to argue with any of you and it may indeed be her feet causing the issue. If it is, any suggestions as to why we did not see this before? And what is triggering the issues now? Would be greatly appreciated.I think I may have misspoken on when things transpired, so I went through my book and have outlined the events as they happened. Up until July of this year she had never done this. She was on a regular 8 week trim schedule (excluding the onetime she went 12 weeks because the farrier trimmed her too short which resulted in lameness. She had to be shoed a few days later which immediately resolved the soundness issue). July 3rd – started jumping into every lope transitions – only seen under saddle with rider. Considered that it may be a training issue. Aug 8th – Had feet trimmed (new farrier) and issue stopped. No longer considering this a training issue. Sept 15 – Missy off in her hips. First visit with Chiropractor. Issue resolved. May have played too hard in the pasture or took a bad step. Sept 24 – feet trimmed by balance specialist. Feet look really good and she is traveling nicely. No issues. (only 6.5 weeks since last trim). Sept 30 – off in her trot really bouncy. Second visit by chiro. Issue resolved. Oct 1 – started jumping into up transitions again. Both trot and lope transitions. Under saddle and free lunging. (1 week since trim). Am suspicious that chiro may have aggravated the problem. (During the time between these two dates - Checked tack fit to make sure that the saddles where not pinching or inhibiting her movement. Tried several days of aspirin therapy and time off of riding schedule) Oct 25 – seen by vet who specializes in Chiropractic and acupuncture. Initial eval only – no treatment. She noticed that Missy’s jaw was out of balanced and well as her hips. Oct 26 – seen by equine dentist. Floated and balanced. Significantly improved head set . Still jumping into every lope and trot transition. Nov 7 - seen by vet who specializes in Chiropractic and acupuncture. Treated with adjustment and acupuncture. She also checked the tack. Missy seems to really be happier. Missy is still jumping into lope transitions by it is not consistent. Nov 16 – Missy is now jumping up into every trot and lope transitions while lunging and under saddle. To keep with my 8 week schedule, she would need to be trimmed this week. The farrier is scheduled to come out on Dec. 8. I know that this puts me at 10.5 weeks. Once she is trimmed on the 8th, she will be back on a regular 8 week schedule. She has gone longer than this is the past without any issues. When I bought her she was a broodmare and rarely had her feet done at all. She was long when we bought her (longest I have ever seen her. Best guess is that she had not been done 4 or 5 months) and she had no soundness issues. She does have her second session of acupuncture on Dec. 13th. I wanted to make sure that her feet are balanced first. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Thursday, Nov 20, 2008 - 8:59 am: Krysta,If proper trimming is not the answer I suggest you see a diagnostic (lameness) specialist instead of a treatment (chiro/acupuncture) specialist. I am skeptical of some of the findings or the meaning of some of these findings you write about and think a really good eye might see things that have been missed. DrO |
Member: krystam |
Posted on Monday, Nov 24, 2008 - 11:34 am: Quick question, Do you think if I bute her and lunge her about 2 hours after that I would be able to conclude if this jumping up into the lope is a pain issue? I want to make sure that I indeed have a lameness issue before I spend the money for a lameness exam as they are not cheap in my neck of the woods, Thank you. |