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HorseAdvice.com » Training, Behavior, & Conditioning Horses » Behavioral Problems » Calming the Nervous or Excited Horse » |
Discussion on Any Ingredients Proven to Help Calm a Horse? | |
Author | Message |
New Member: cpaddock |
Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2011 - 11:56 pm: Hi Dr. O,Is there any research out there supporting that any one specific (or combination of) ingredients can help calm a horse? I have read that Magnesium is the "calming mineral", while L-Tryptophan is supposed to help calm humans. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Carolyn |
Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 23, 2011 - 9:28 am: Hi Carolyn,I have a super sensitive over reactive gelding. I tried some different things, and this last summer, thinking he was border line IR, really upped his Magnesium. I fed 5000 mg of mag daily now for months, and he is doing better in the focus area. I also put him on a hay only diet, got over a 100 pounds off him, and believe his hooves are better than ever, thus he isn't in pain from poor hoof form. I can't say that the magnesium was the only factor that helped to get him to focus of course. Just wanted to share my experience. Can I ask what exactly are you dealing with? Oh, and I'd also suggest all his minerals and vitamins are balanced. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2011 - 8:03 am: There is no evidence that either of these two supplements will help calm a horse that is not deficient in them. You can read about them on the nutrition page under the articles on minerals and vitamins.The problem is that the same neurotransmitters that are involved with alertness are also involved with coordination. Some horse owners have found some tranquilizers that create a calmer state but have not effected coordination to the point where they considered the horse too dangerous too ride. For more on these see HorseAdvice.com » Treatments and Medications for Horses » Sedatives & Anesthetics and look at the articles on Acepromazine, Reserpine, and Prolixin. DrO |
Member: cpaddock |
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 7, 2012 - 4:48 pm: Hi Dr. O,I have recently been told that raspberry leaves calm horses, however I am hesitant to use them without first knowing exactly how they work. Have you had any experience with raspberry leaves, and/or do you know how they create a calming effect? Hi Angie, I have a 6 year old TB gelding who is high energy. He is a great boy, and his spooks are usually just little jumps in place. But he just seems nervous whenever we are out of his stall, whether it be in the arena or on the trail, so I have thought about giving him something to calm his nerves (kind of like we give humans anti-anxiety meds). |
Member: rtrotter |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 - 4:51 am: Hi Carolyn,I have 35 years experience with dealing with nervous, high strung racehorses. In fact, it's a specialty of mine, if you can call it one. I have used several different things including calm and Cool, Ace Promazine and different Herbal products over the years and while they did work to a certain extent, they were not a long term solution. More recently, I have been looking into my management practices with regards to what I feed and for the last year, I have been feeding exclusively Thrive. My once very nervous horse has turned into the most mellow mare, but very focused and racing well. This mare had a lot of problems associated with her nervousness and she spent so much time being nervous it did affect her performance. Don't get me wrong, she is still high energy, which is somewhat muted by an increase in exercise, but all her other problems have been solved by changing her feed. Just my thoughts Rachelle |
Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 - 7:29 am: Rachelle, we don't have Thrive around here, what are the ingredients?I quite feeding Tango magnesium over the winter months, and although he is still less spooky than he was since we FINALLY had a breakthrough in his training issues, I noticed his eye wasn't as calm, and he seemed a bit more sensitive again. I have started the mag again, we'll see if there are changes in his personality back to better ;) I am believer in magnesium making a difference. His diet is hay, one cup of alfalfa pellets, one scoop of Mega Cell multi vitamins, a sprinkle of white salt over that daily. |
Member: babychop |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 - 10:35 am: I recently adopted a mare off the track who has a bowed tendon and she is a bit jumpy at times. I think the feed is a major point as noted, I wouldn't give alfalfa for one, also, if you can find a hay net with smaller holes that can stretch out the time it takes him to eat it will keep him busy, simulate grazing and reduce the likelihood of acid buildup in his stomach (acid is constantly produced and if there is available food intake throughout the day it is less likely to cause ulceration whereas a couple flakes twice a day leaves great stretches of time without food and acid buildup) and I've used an herbal supplement that has given me help with some horses called "Mare Magic", it's worth a try. Also worth mentioning is LMF Gentle Balance. I try to avoid drugging them if possible (but have had to on some occasions in the past to keep them from tearing themselves up). It's all in the interest of healing the horse and keeping them from making it worse - of course each one is different and you will have to find what works best for your horse. Trial and error has been the best research for me, I listen, try what my vet, trainer and others with experience have said and in the end what works best is what I follow. Hope it helpsThough some horses are just more high strung you can also try working on their behavior by working with them on the ground, sensitizing, desensitizing over and over and over again until they get the point. It should help. There are a number of clinicians who can help with this - just find one you like - some of them drive me crazy but are effective. One I was rather impressed by was at WEG, he had one of his horses lay down and the others side-pass until they were standing over him. I talked to him and his assistant who told me they were just as ditzy as any horse until you got their attention, he just worked with them extensively. I like Chris Cox, Clinton Anderson (who I used to train a colt I sold a couple years ago and is now going great guns in XC) and a few more but it's just a suggestion. They might be annoying (arrogance factor) but they do work. If you also have a calming influence on your horse while around them, soft spoken, calm demeanor, I find this helps as well. My animals seem to settle down fairly quickly - my Vet calls my horses "Andreatized" lol. |
Member: cpaddock |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 - 3:52 pm: Cooper's daily diet:- Unlimited orchard (hard keeper, still slightly underweight) - 1/2 flake alfalfa (will be taking him off of this once I am done with the bales I bought for him) - 1 lb fresh ground flax seeds - 4 oz Diamond V Yeast - 4 tbsp AniMed Glucosamine 5000, switching to GLC 5500 when this container of Glucosamine 5000 runs out - 2 tbsp Yucca powder - 2 tbsp AniMed VitaCalm - 2 cups Lecithin Powder (for ulcers) - 2 tbsp Pectin Powder (for ulcers) - Free fed GroStrong vitamin/mineral/electrolyte mix - Also has free access to a Redmond mineral rock I am also working with a trainer on his ground manners and horsemanship (she is a Ray Hunt follower). He has been rearing a lot lately, both while I am hand walking him and riding him. Since we started the ground manners training, however, his behavior has significantly improved. So yes, behavior modification is a big part of how I am treating his anxiety and high energy. I am really curious as to how exactly raspberry leaves work in the horses body and create a calming affect. Do they release some kind of narcotic or chemical that dopes the horse? Mare Magic is 100% raspberry leaves. |
Member: rtrotter |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 - 6:40 pm: Hi Angie,Here are the ingredients in Thrive I get mine shipped from Ogdensburg, NY by the pallet via uship.com. My last shipment I got the price per bag down to $3.47/ shipping cost, so the total for the feed and the shipping is $25.47/bag. Since, I no longer feed any supplements except for an electrolyte mix. Feeding this has actually saved me money. I feed less and I do not have to worry about balancing anything. This is fed with good quality grass hay and is really good for hard keepers. You can check out the Pray Road Stable website( www.prayroadstable.com) or www.thrivehorsefeed.com and get the whole story. https://prayroadstables.com/ThriveIngredients.aspx Carolyn, I checked out raspberry leaves for its calming effect and see where it can be good for mares because it levels out the hormonal imbalances, just not sure how it would act in geldings. I had good results with Wendalls Herbs(Calmer)before I started using the Thrive. Rachelle |
Member: babychop |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 - 8:06 pm: Ray Hunt was amazing wasn't he? Some folks love the natural horsemanship, some hate it - personally I really like what it can do for the relationship you build with your horse.I have NO IDEA how raspberry leaves work but the mare magic seems to help a bit when added to the feed. Just my personal observation. And again, every horse is different - and as Rachelle mentions it may or may not have the same effect in geldings, trial and error at this point, ya know? |
Member: lsweeney |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 - 9:59 pm: Is the horse stalled? It might help putting him out in a larger area. |
Member: cpaddock |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 - 11:36 pm: Yes, Cooper is stalled but with a large paddock (about 30' by 90'). Unfortunately this is the largest space available where we live. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Thursday, Feb 9, 2012 - 7:21 am: Hello Carolyn,There is no scientific work to show that raspberry leaves will calm horses of either sex. Carolyn, why would you quit feeding alfalfa to a hard keeping horse? Your list of feedstuffs is interesting but I would note that our horses (and most of the horses in our practice) are fed good quality pasture/hay and small amounts of good quality pelleted feed to maintain condition and a salt mineral block and do very well. DrO |
Member: cpaddock |
Posted on Thursday, Feb 9, 2012 - 1:56 pm: Cooper is noticeably calmer when I take him off the alfalfa for a few days, so that is why I eventually want to take him off of it permanently. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2012 - 10:19 am: Nervous, hard keeping horses are a challenge. The only consistent fix for the nervousness is to provide lots of exercise in a non-threatening relaxed environment. For many horses this is long trail rides. These horses are quick learners and don't forget adverse events easily.One of the challenges is that these horses have to be fed well to keep condition. If you feel alfalfa is actually making your horse more nervous and remove it from the diet be sure you find good alternate sources of protein and energy or your horse will loose even more condition. See the management topic in the article HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Weight Loss in Horses » Overview of Chronic Weight Loss for some ideas on feeding difficult keepers without alfalfa. DrO |
Member: babychop |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2012 - 1:04 pm: Hey Dr O, on that topic, I've had success keeping weight on by adding soybean meal and yeast based hind gut supplements - your thoughts? I used to get the soybean meal in a 50# sack straight from the mill and add a scoop to my gelding's feed, he picked up weight fairly well with it. I've been adding the yeast based supplements to all of my horses' feed for some time now and haven't had any issues with colic since and they have been keeping the weight on (even my hard keeper, food sponge TB mare). |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2012 - 9:35 am: Hello Andrea,The addition of any nutrient that is deficient in the diet will put weight on a horse. The fact that soybean meal was very beneficial suggests that your prior diet that resulted in thinness may have been deficient in protein. Soybean meal also has calories that the body can use as energy. Low protein diets look exactly like a overall underfed horse. Except to the degree that the yeast supplement adds further nutrients I do not know why it would be better than say a good quality regular horse feed with a similar nutritional analysis. DrO |
Member: chrism |
Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2012 - 6:58 pm: I've been told to try top dressing with a supplement that has B-1 in it (only). If it helps the horse calm (in fact, one supplement may be called B-calm) in a couple of days, then the advice was to reduce concentrated feed and switch to a non-alfalfa hay. If the supplement didn't make a difference quickly, then the food wasn't likely the issue.B-1 vitamin supplements are pretty inexpensive. This was at a Mark Rashid clinic some years ago, where many of the horses were a bit high. |
Member: babychop |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2012 - 12:06 am: You bring up more questions for me Dr O, all of these yeast based supplements, Succeed, Forco, etc. claim they help balance the hind gut bacterial environment and help absorption of food so it's better implemented (not exact words but they all claim pretty much the same thing). Is it all just a bunch of crap?As far as protein (aside from a mix of alfalfa, 3way and bermuda), I do feed LMF / Triple Crown Complete or TizWhiz Broodmare + triple cleaned oats depending on the horse, haven't added the soybean meal except on a few occasions in some time but the protein angle is good to know. They're all on Platinum Performance Wellness & Cocosoya oil, plus my older mare gets Mushroom Matrix to help keep teeth in her head. Though you do bring to mind a TB mare I leased out for ET (she's 5): she came back really skinny, I added Platinum Performance Healthy Weight along with the Wellness to her diet after extra feed wasn't putting the weight on her. It got her back to a good healthy weight after a few months of it. I also power packed her just to be sure it wasn't a parasitic issue. (not to hijack the string but the yeast based hind gut supplements have been highly recommended by several equine nutritionists and along with everything else their coats and hooves have gotten better so I'm not sure what to think now ). |
Member: babychop |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2012 - 12:08 am: Apologies Carolyn - Didn't mean to hijack your string - Have you had any improvement in your horse's general demeanor? Any change at all? What have you tried so far? |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 22, 2012 - 3:42 pm: Why don't we move your discussion Andrea into a new discussion into the HorseAdvice.com » Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Probiotics and Yeast Culture Products area. You many questions you have already answered in the article.DrO |
Member: babychop |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 22, 2012 - 10:38 pm: Will do, thanks Dr O |