Site Menu:
This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below: |
HorseAdvice.com » Training, Behavior, & Conditioning Horses » Behavioral Problems » Calming the Nervous or Excited Horse » |
Discussion on Avoiding bad trail etiquette | |
Author | Message |
Member: Cpacer |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 10:02 am: I need to express some frustration and hopefully find something constructive out of an experience this past weekend. I went on a trail ride at a state park yesterday and met up with a group that I’ve ridden with before and who have a couple of unruly horses.My horse is usually a very good boy but yesterday was exhibiting some bad behavior—jigging, head-tossing, bucking, running uncontrollably, etc. It actually really hurt my feelings because I thought we had a better understanding than that. I was feeling really disconnected and got kind of upset realizing what little control I actually had. To top it off he wouldn’t get back in his trailer to go home. I really wanted to cry! I’m trying to figure out what set him off. He’s not usually affected like that so I don’t know if it was a particularly high-strung day, or if he’s picking up bad habits, but it kind of scared me. How can I prevent this bad behavior from becoming the norm? Since I took it kind of personal I need to clear the air before we go out again, but there’s a trail event this coming Sunday that I was planning on going on, and am a little nervous now since this particular ride may involve some speed that I may not be able to avoid like I could when he was a good boy. Any advice from my HA friends? ps. Yes, I’m the only one in my group who wears a very “un-cool”, un-western helmet. |
Member: Corinne |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 11:27 am: CP,Your experience with a normally good behaving horse behaving badly sounds like my second show experience in Sept (a local hunter jumper show) and my first without my coach. I think my horse was a bit spooky to begin with and instead of trying to settle him down completely at the walk...I tried to work him at all gates thinking it would help him burn off more energy. It did the opposite. He got more spooky, which in turn made me more tense...which comminicated to him through my seat and hands and perpetuated the problem. All in all, we traveled three hours and we rode one flat class that did not go well...so I withdrew from the jumping classes...admist my own tears...and pressure from everyone to "just give it a go", but I know my horse, and i know me and things would only have gone from bad to worse. To top off insult to injury I too was completely mortified that he wouldn't get in the trailer with everyone watching, but instead of rushing him, I rewarded each step he made and after 30 minutes he finally went in. My ego was bruised as we have been working two years to start showing and I thought it was a reflection on my riding...but after a few days, logical thought set in and I realized everyone has bad days....including the big time riders. Perhaps with his initial behavior and you getting frustrated and nervous did the same with your guy and thus made him more nervous. I know mine doesn't do well when his "leader" get's scared. Trails are also scary for him. We take trails lessons every now and then and don't rush things. In fact it would be very nice if we could do out in the open what we do in an arena but we can't so we just walk....and stay off fields he is likely to bolt on....especially when my coach is on her Foxhunting horse! LOL Perhaps you can grab a trail lesson this week and you can be taught what to do if he bolts on you. (Not recommending this for you as I am not an instructor) but in case it ever happened to me, I was taught to half halt, never hold, use more leg and ride him in a circle that progressively gets smaller provided there is space. When you finally get on a 20 or 15 meter he is likely to slow down because it's more work. Don't worry about feeling bad, or having a good cry. We all have bad days, the horses included...and we have all been in the same boat. I love how my instructor puts it...some of the best experience you can have is when it goes wrong. If it went right all the time, you would never learn to deal with things that are likely to happen when on a horse. I used to walk away from bad lessons and feel crushed....now I am like...Hummmmm my first refusal (that was not good) but I at least know what it feels like so if it ever happens again I can be prepared! I hope you feel better...and good on you for wearing a helmet...I won't be writing about you in my paper on head injuries in sports! Have a great trail ride next weekend. v/r Corinne |
Member: Canter |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 1:17 pm: cp,Since your horse is normally well behaved on the trail, did you check all of your tack to ensure that nothing was sticking into him and making him uncomfortable this time out? Were the normally unruly horses setting him off or did he start acting up first? What was the weather like? First cool day of the season or abnormally windy? If you haven't checked your gear, I would start there first. Check your horse over carefully if you haven't already. Maybe he was sore somewhere. Then, think about what was different this time out vs any other ride. If you can pin point something, I would try to re-create it but in a more controlled environment, like the safety of an arena, working slowly at first on basics at the walk, then trot, then canter...progressing from there. I've had my feelings bruised on occassion as well, when my beloved and trusted horse decides to be a dope and it shakes my confidence greatly. Going back to basics and slowly & slightly putting my horse and I in a slightly more "charged" circumstance always helps me re-build my confidence in both my riding and in my horse. Good luck! |
Member: Cpacer |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 3:41 pm: Well Fran there was a lot out of the ordinary to be honest, but I took him out on Friday under almost the same circumstances and he was a perfect angel that day (different group).Sunday's ride was the first at this particular locale, it was the first time I'd driven him by himself in his trailer, only the third time he's worn all four-Old Mac boots--I did inspect him when I washed him and he didn't have any chafing which is what crossed my mind while we were out. He did have a bit of sensitivity on his back while he was wet but for some reason that usually happens when he's wet, and he's fine when he's dry--is that something of concern? Maybe he was just feeling good cause his feet felt cushy? Then again I think it was more nervous energy. He did get a little worse after one of the other riders fell off after a gallop along a stretch (me galloping was unintentional but he was AWAKE after that). He also seemed less anxious if he was in the lead, although a little more cautious and spooky about where he was going which is normal. Fortunately I happen to be taking a Partnership clinic with him this Saturday (hosted by our local Mounted Police Unit)if he'll go back in the trailer to get there. I guess my biggest fear is that it wasn't a one time issue and what if we lost our connection and he prefers to be a booger because I spoiled him or something. (I'm not a worrier or anything) Corinne - thanks for sharing your experience. I try to do the same thing on the lessons learned. There was quite an audience for the trailer loading which didn't help him or me--definitely one of the more frustrating parts of horsemanship along with all the advice you get from helpful bystanders! I can't wait until these loading issue days are behind us. He really is a sweetheart, although an ungrateful sweetheart. |
Member: Bucky |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 4:04 pm: Diet can also effect how they act. Did you change grain or add something new? If I feed my horse Omelene she turns into a completely different animal-she becomes hot and very spooky. Good luck and don't give up. |
Member: Hwood |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 4:20 pm: The Partnership Clinic sounds like an excellent idea and should give you some strategies for dealing with a horse that isn't focusing on his rider . . . which is what your horse was doing . . . NOT focusing on you and what you were asking. I have found it very helpful to just ignore the rest of the group and just focus on my horse . . . and give him some work to do that has nothing to do with what he WANTS to do . . . I have found very small circles or reversing direction to be best, and as soon as he starts to walk at an easy walk, I will release the pressure in his mouth and let him go forward . . . and when he stops focusing and taking things into his own "hands" so to speak, I put him to work again. You may ride 10 times the distance as the rest of the riders at this rate, but you will have control of your horse . . . i.e., he won't be running off with you or thinking he can pull on you without you putting him to work doing something YOU are asking. Hopefully, it will click in his head, and the next rides will be sane and fun. |
Member: Dyduroc |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 5:22 pm: cp, I've been in similar circumstances more than once and have never figured out why some days the'chemistry' of the herd works and other days it doesn't. I've been riding with the same group of people for several years and we meet at a local state park or the beach to ride. Through trial and error, we've figured out which horses have to be in the lead, middle or tail, and to which ones it really doesn't matter. Most of the time our rides come off without incident. However, on the days when we have our hands full, it's been chalked up to everything from operator error, a new piece of tack, pesky flies, deer or moose in the area, a close encounter with a mountain biker or a nasty dog, the weather, the time of day, the temperature or we something we'll never figure out. I used to allow my feelings to get hurt but remind myself of the first thing my instructor says every time I relate an incident to her: Progress isn't measured day to day but rather on a month to month basis. She keeps asking me the question, "Where were you a year ago?" to which I sheepishly have to admit there's been progress. The Partnership clinic sounds terrific! Hope you have a good time and enjoy yourself. By the way, I can REALLY identify with how badly you feel about your easy-loader becoming a nightmare. I was at the point where I accepted I'd never be able to ride with the group again because of how bad my horse got (I'm surprised an onlooker didn't call the SPCA to turn us in after the worst incident). Thank goodness my friends didn't let me give up because she's back to loading like a dream. None of us have a clue why she started refusing to load. Nor can we figure out why, one magical day, it stopped being an issue. Poof! Like magic. Don't give up! BTW--so glad you wear an 'un-cool', 'un-Western' helmet! D. |
Member: Cpacer |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 5:28 pm: Here's to sane rides! (this one certainly wasn't) Holly you are exactly right, he was ignoring me and I guess in a way I was ignoring him by worrying about everyone else and not focusing on getting him back before it got out of control. He should listen to me if everyone gallops off and I don't want to, right? I think my mistake on that one was thinking we could casually canter up, but as soon as I gave a little, well...When you say do small cirlces--if I hold one rein tight until he stops spinning is that correct? I can try to be more consistent in doing that when he bucks, tosses his head or jigs, but that's a scarey move at high speed! |
Member: Sswiley |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 5:30 pm: CPI agree with what Holly said. I have had some very loopy horses in the past on the trail. I like to plan ahead so that I am on a trail with lots of room. That way if I need to break from the line and "school" my horse in an adjacent area I can. I basically just pull out from the group, and put him on a circle and pretend that I am at home practicing my circles, bending, transitions etc. I don't punish the horse for misbehaving on the trail as much as I would put his mind in the same place as it is when he is being good and doing what he is good at at home and of course make him work. When you have got him focused on you and "the marble is back in place", return to the trail. It would be nice if you could arrange with the group ahead of time and ask that they wait. Maybe even some of them might benifit from a little schooling. You might have to limit your trail rides to smaller/calmer groups until you have your horse paying attention to you again. |
Member: Hwood |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 5:37 pm: Yes, it is very scary at high speeds, and if I'm riding a really out of control galloping horse, I either let him run it out on the flat, or if the terrain is not trustworthy, I use a pulley-rein, with my left hand holding a short rein and braced on top of the horse's crest (with mane in my hand) while I hold straight up with a short rein in my right hand . . . right against the center of the horse's neck, . . . but that is VERY rare . . . VERY . . .The thing is . . . don't let your horse get to any speed faster than a walk if he isn't listening at the walk . . . if he's focused on you at the walk, then you can trot, but AS SOON as the horse looses focus and starts to make his own decisions, you HAVE to nip it in the bud . . . and ask for SOMETHING from the horse . . . ANYTHING . . . just so you know he is focused back on you. That way you can avoid needing a stop at a high speed. |
Member: Sswiley |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 6:06 pm: CPjust looked at your profile . . . . very cool picture ! |
Member: Cpacer |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 6:46 pm: Thanks Shelley, that's the typical scene of him in the pasture--he loves to play! If I took it one second earlier it would have been of him and his best friend bucking while galloping (i'll get it next time). My husband has nicknamed him Don Juan because he makes everyone frisky and playful.I like to let him get that out in the pasture, I'm not a speed rider, in fact we've spent so much time doing mellow trail rides by ourselves that I guess I forgot about the influence of others. When he ran on Sunday all I was thinking about was him tumbling on his new boots, and worrying that I was going to hurt his poor mouth. btw D., we've come half-way around the world since a year ago (when I got him), that's a good reminder! |
Member: Sr26953 |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 10:35 pm: Great string everyone. I learned alot. The behaviors described, however, happen to me riding in lessons in the arena. I have a relatively new horse, 5 yo OTTTB, but things were OK during the Summer and changed when the weather got cooler/windier and he got more fit. Now, I just can't anticipate when he is going to go off (whirl and buck) although it is most likely to occur when a horse is coming on to pass him. Any advice is appreciated. Also, what is a Partnership Clinic and how do I find one (around the Sacramento, CA area)?Suzanne |
Member: Brandi |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 11:11 pm: Me too! I have a big TB-type paint on stall rest and rehab, and he is super cool, "bareback all the way" one day, many days, and bucking/bolting "I'd better be in my western saddle and where is my helmet" the next--but only occasionally. The problem is that I can't tell until I'm up there what it's going to be. I try to pay attention to him while I'm grooming to check his mood, and I'm rarely right about how I think he's going to be. I used to be a very confident rider, but now I jump every time he stubs his toe (which is a lot), because I think he's spooking, and I haven't even fallen off...yet. I, too, spend most of my time and troubles in an arena or in my "riding" pasture where things are more routine (can't blame deer or ??). This horse does see me as a leader (mabye not the best one, but I know he respects me a great deal) we've been through quite a bit of Parelli NH, so we have a good relationship on the ground, and I thought we did under saddle, but now that we're going on 16 months of rehab (with a 100% backslide 9 months ago), things seem worse rather than better. I do have success on his "bad" days by spending time making the 'easy thing hard' and the 'hard thing easy', -especially if he is spooking at something in-particular. I work him harder in a safe, comfortable spot, and let him stand quiet in the scary spot. But like most people here, what I'm trying to find is a training tool to reduce the bad days, I've gotten better at dealing with them when they're here, but I want to avoid the "out of the blue" ones as much as possible, and I feel at a complete loss as to what to do. Maybe because there's not much I can do but accept it and deal with each as they come along. |
Member: Sswiley |
Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 11:30 pm: Suzanne,I think this is a very familiar scenario. My then 5 year old mare did the same to me last fall. She was a perfectly good girl till she hit her teenage years and the weather turned cool. Then yee-haw !! That was last fall, she is better this year. . . . knock on wood. My tactic . . ? wear real grippy full seat britches, and of course a helmet. Because bottom line, you need to stay on to deal with most undersaddle problems. One thing you can do till he works thru this is put a red ribbon on his tail, people will think your horse kicks and give you more room. Hopefully he will relax a little. Just always allow plenty of time and if they are being too difficult and you dont have the confidence to deal with them from their back I use lunging to reinforce discipline. My attitude toward lunging is: it is not a time to play and buck. Especially if they have been naughty under saddle. We get out there, and when I say trot, they trot. If there is any fooling around they get goosed with the wipe and sent forward. Same goes for the canter. You can lung him moving all over the arena, over obstacles, past scary things etc. My mare does'nt even get to look toward the outside of the circle when I lunge her. She gets a little cluck and a reminder if she does. As long as your horse has free time to run and buck there is no reason for them to do it when they are being worked whether undersaddle or on the lunge. Of course there are many people who disagree with that one. I am also curious about the partnership clinic. Is it undersaddle or ground work? I also live in the Sacramento area. Maybe we can learn some new tricks? |
Member: Dove2 |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 15, 2005 - 6:26 am: Brandi, Something I think would be very helpful for your young horse and his sometimes short attention span is to always, always circle him before riding. It's not really lunging. Instead, it's directing his feet, disengaging his hips, and getting his attention focused on you. I would do this every time before riding. Even Parelli does this to his well trained horses to see "what side of the corral they woke up on." It's very common for horses this young to not be able to focus or concentrate on you very long because they really haven't been exercising this skill. If you do this every day or every time you ride, you'll be training your youngster's mind (it's not really about getting the bucks out -- that's physical---but it does). You'll be able to see whether your horse needs a few more minutes in groundwork with you really quickly and you'll be better armed with info about what attitude he's got that particular day. BTW, sometimes we think we have the respect of our horse but we really only have courtesy. True respect means he listens to you under any circumstance. We need to always be working towards increasing the thinking side of their brain, and reducing the reacting side. |
Member: Frances |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 15, 2005 - 7:50 am: Brandi,I can certainly empathise on the excitability of the rehabbing horse as it starts to get fitter! I've had far more than my fair share of leaps, whirl-arounds and rodeos over the past month. Trouble is, I'm afraid that the school movements I'd like to do to make my mare concentrate on the job in hand will be a strain on the ligament we're rehabbing. But without serious work, everything around her is a green hairy monster. Horses - who'd have 'em! |
Member: Cpacer |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 15, 2005 - 11:11 am: You gals are all the greatest! Thank you so much for all your input. One of the things I love the most about this site is finding you're never alone--I feel encouraged to give it another go now.As for the clinic I'm not really sure what to expect. I think it will entail groundwork and time in the saddle. It's being hosted at a local NH guy's ranch to benefit the Mounted Patrol Unit (apparently we have one of the best in the nation). There are a series of 3 clinics through the month--confidence, de-spooking, and partnership. I think they have a number of obstacles and equipment such as those giant beach balls, mattresses, hanging-wiggly things, fire?, etc., but those may be more for the de-spooking clinics. Hopefully my horse won't come away completely freaked-out. I think there are different kinds of partnership clinics offered by various NH groups depending on where you live. I did a quick search and saw one in Ojai (I think a 5 or so hour drive from Sac.) but I'm sure you may find one closer. Usually I complain because everything is hosted out west and I'm in NC now, but it seems most partnership clinics I've found are in this area--goody for me. btw-last time I was in NYC I met a group of NYC police horses that were so unbelievably calm, I felt I had to find the secret! I'll be sure to let you all know about it. I also thought of one other very small thing that may have set us apart for the day -- I usually have a lot of patience with ground tying (he likes to stand 1 step outside of where I want him to), but I was stressing about driving him by himself, and driving by myself and put him in the cross-ties after one step-out. Probably nothing but he is sensitive like that, and I was kind of distracted. I'm going to visit him tonight to reconnect. |
Member: Brandi |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 15, 2005 - 12:28 pm: Dove2, you're probably right, I may be getting more courtesy than respect--I like that distinction. Thank you. And I use the disengaging of the hips all the time on the ground when he's more excited about where I'm leading him, than he is about listening to me at the end of the rope. 5 minutes of circling with lots of turnbacks (all easy ones, he is rehabbing, after all) and I have a bit of a different horse. But I don't do it before I ride. I'll start doing it right away.Frances, you're right, I think, they start getting stronger and feeling better and watch out! And yes, you CAN'T work them like you really need to, because you're having to be careful! But then when they do whirl, buck and start, they often survive that without incident, but we just don't want any setbacks to be on OUR shoulders, so we have to be careful! As for partnership clinics in the Sacramento area, I do know that there was a Raye Lockhart clinic in the area just about 2 weeks ago, I don't know if more are scheduled, and I know that our local Parelli instructor does several this time of year (Bonding and Bombproof is coming up Thanksgiving weekend, not sure if it's "entry level" or more advanced). I'm not sure if these are "partnership" clinics, but both instructors are NH, so you would get a lot of similar stuff. E-mail me @ brandi@moonrockranch.com if you want contact info on either of them. |
Member: Corinne |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 16, 2005 - 12:10 am: CP,One of my husband's Security Forces troop used to ride for a USAF mounted patrol at one of the Air Bases in California. He told me about some of the despooking, bomb proofing, partnership clinics they used to have to go through to get a horse ready for patrol because the horse literally can not be scared of anything....and has different riders all the time. The stuff the mountee's do...really works...and really sounds awesome.... I wonder if they would work for a spooky Arabian who doesn't get scared until he sees something maybe the 10th time...or coming around on a different lead. Mine is like a little kid who has a delayed reaction scare...you know when they get scared and look at you for a minute then remember they are scared then they cry? He can be looking at something spooky, like a garbage can for 2 minutes before he spooks. Please..Please...Please...let us know what you learn when you go to these clinics. They sound like great fun! I wish I go could with you! Have a great night! |
Member: Vrich |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 16, 2005 - 10:07 pm: I have no idea if this would work for any of these wild spooky type situations, but my OTTB was a definite racehorse when I got him. He'd take off like a shot if someone came up behind us, spooked at every shadow, and generally made me extremely nervous. Then, I started working with a trainer using lauffer reins, also called European Balancing Side Reins. They adjust, so the horse is never really confined. We'd use them free lunging and work to just keep the horse moving, first wherever he wanted to go and gradually where I wanted him to move. There's magic in those things, because I could watch Polar change. He started tracking up, using his hind end, thinking more and reacting less. Over time, he has become a perfect mount - sane, responsive, and so much fun. Just a thought. |
Member: Kthorse |
Posted on Thursday, Nov 17, 2005 - 6:36 am: Val ,just curious, did you use the balancing reins under saddle or just lunging?I have been thinking of getting them for lunge work. Thanks Katrina |
Member: Sr26953 |
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 1:35 am: Val and all, thank your for your input on my bucky OTTTB. My trainer has put bunge on my horse, which extends over the poll, through the bit rings and ties onto the girth d-ring between the horse's legs. Is this similar to the lauffer reins?Thanks again. Wonderful to know I am not alone. Suzanne |
Member: Vrich |
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 8:04 pm: Suzanne, I prefer Lauffer reins to the neck stretcher your trainer used. They are less restrictive and allow the horse to learn on his own. If you watch closely, you can actually see the horse thinking the process through, making decisions on how to move, tracking up and using his hind end better. It's like magic!Katrina - You can use the Lauffer reins as reins by changing their configuration or you can use them like side reins as you ride. I like them best for free lunging. |
Member: Sr26953 |
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 8:30 pm: Thanks all, Brandi for the Partnership clinic info, going to ge me some Lauffer reins Val and sticky britches Shelley and see what I can accomplish.Suzanne |
New Member: Kipp |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 19, 2005 - 2:52 pm: Could someone please tell me where you can find the Lauffer Reins. I've been through a bunch of online places but can't come up with anyone having them.Thanks! |
Member: Sr26953 |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 19, 2005 - 8:36 pm: I'm not the only one! I've tried every search strategy that I know and can't find a source for the Lauffer reins. I did, however, find books on how to use them.Thanks, Suzanne |
Member: Pbauer |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 20, 2005 - 1:47 am: Hi,Google search: European Balancing Side Reins. Tonya |
Member: Sarahb47 |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 20, 2005 - 3:04 am: Pharon, check out Dover Saddlery (catalog or online) and look for balancing side reins #X1-3087.I prefer sliding sidereins, actually. Run a long continuous rein from the girth at the left side (or mid-barrel dee on a surcingle) through the left snaffle bit ring, down to the center of the birth through a dee or loop in the middle of the girth, back up through the right side bit ring, and attach to the right side of surcingle or saddle. Because they slide through both the bit rings and the center dee on the girth, you can ask your horse to bend as you normally would while riding or longeing. (If he's traveling crooked and overbending, fix the rein at the center so it can't slide through the middle girth ring, and be sure both sides are equal in length. With this rein, the horse can stretch his topline fully down and forward, but can't come up and go hollow. Makes him work nicely through the back. Illustrations are in two books-- Carriage Driving and Power of Positive Horse Training. The official German training books also show balancing and "triangle" sidereins, very similar. Sarah |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 20, 2005 - 8:52 am: Just read all these posts, wow, great info. And I can relate to so many of the stories.Question: Are these balancing reins what they refer to as the Chambon/degogue?? Not sure on the spelling but it sounds like one of those 2 things. Can anyone tell me the difference between the two?? I have the combo and it worked wonders on the lunge line with my high headed Arab, but I was warned to be very careful while riding so never tried it that way. Comments anyone?? |
Member: Sarahb47 |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 20, 2005 - 1:09 pm: Angie, the chambon and degogue work quite differently from the balancing or sliding sidereins. The chambon line runs from center of girth between the horse's legs, to a strap over the poll, to the bit. (Two lines, actually, one on each side.) Years ago, I remember creating a makeshift chambon by running a piece of clothesline from girth through the throatlatch on my bridle and thence to the bit. Broke quite a few throatlatches that way.The gogue or degogue is the same as a chambon but instead of attaching to the bit, the line continues through the bit rin and back down to the girth. Presure is at the poll and the bit. When the horse raises his head, pressure in both spots increases. When he DrOps his head, stretches the topline and rounds his back, pressure decreases. These devices help the horse find the correct balance and teach him to use his back more correctly, without resisting the bit with a strong under-neck muscle and high head. But when you take them off, many horses will simply revert to the inverted, head-high action because the correcting pressure from the chambon is gone. Balancing reins and sliding sidereins often work better because they more closely approximate the position and action of a rider's hands on the reins. The sliding sidereins, for example, place alternating, 'sliding' pressure on the bit as the horse walks -- he slides the bit from side to side in his mouth simply by the action of the walk. There's no poll pressure, and as long as he carries himself correctly, there's no downward pressure on the bit. And the top portion of the lauffer reins attach to the saddle right at the pommel, close to where the rider's hands would be. So the horse becomes accustomed to rounding his back and accepting the bit from contact generated at that point. The chambon, degogue and sliding sidereins all have one advantage over the lauffer balancing reins: they allow the horse to stretch all the way down. The balancing reins restrict the horse from full downward stretch. Hope this helps! I find saddle catalogs really useful to show different devices. Dover Saddlery shows all of these auxiliary reins in pictures. BTW, this post has gotten rather off the original topic of trail riding problems -- perhaps it should be moved to another section of the training topics! Sarah |
Member: Vrich |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 20, 2005 - 2:40 pm: www.doversaddlery.comEuropean Balancing Side Reins Full Size 7B-3087 $57.80 |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 20, 2005 - 6:56 pm: Sarah,Thank you for an excellent description on the use of the chambon, degogue, and sliding side reins. I saw them all on the Dover website. If DrO wishes to move my question and your excellent answer to a section under training, it's fine by me. In fact it would be better posted somewheres else where it could be found if someone were searching for any of the above mentioned training aids. I didn't expect such a thorough answer!!!! Just had my curiosity aroused, and I had to ask. Hope I am forgiven? |
Member: Sr26953 |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 20, 2005 - 9:33 pm: Angie,I don't think you were the one that led the string astray. I think it was me talking about how the bad behavior (jigging, head tossing, bucking and bolting) on the trail was similar to behavior I was experiencing in the arena in group lessons. I think the string once again proves the importance of working on fundamentals, and how that translates into good behavior in the ring, on the trails, or in the show ring. The information about the training aids was so valuable to me. Maybe the discussion could be moved somewhere and titled with respect to the behaviors: jigging, head tossing, bucking, bolting, bad manners when riding with other horses. Suzanne |
Member: Sarahb47 |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 20, 2005 - 10:32 pm: No one led us astray, we just all kinda went there. It just seems this would be even more helpful if it were cross-referenced under training aids, auxiliary reins, or something else as well.Getting back to the topic of trail etiquette and behavior . . . one of my goals in training is to deliberate set up different situations and present my horses with many different environments -- all under careful control, of course, so I can create positive outcomes. For example, I'll make sure that my greenies are asked to follow the group at the correct distance, lead the group, go side-by-side, walk away from the group, walk quietly back to the group, leg yield closer to or farther away from another horse, stand still (frequently) even when the group isn't standing still, walk next to a horse they don't like, etc. I set up all these combinations, first in the ring and then on the trails, always paying attention to the horse's mood of the day and his comfort level. Training takes place when we push the edges of the comfort zone, just a little. Push too hard, and you create panic; don't push at all, and the horse never learns to trust and respect the rider. Does your horse spook if someone picks up a lawn chair and moves it across the arena? That's a training opportunity! Move lawn chairs around until he yawns with boredom. Have the neighbor kids set up a tent next door? Training opportunity! Examine the tent, fiddle with it, have someone crawl in and out, until the tent is part of his repertoire. When your horse presents you with a new spook/anxiety issue, you've been given an important piece of knowledge about him, something you didn't know before. First, keep yourself safe, then break the problem down into little pieces. Can you simulate the axiety-provoking situation in a safer environment, such as inside the arena with a friend to help you? Can you enlist the aid of a wise older horse to get yours past the dragons, can you get off and lead him through the sticky spot? If all he's ever done on a trail ride is follow the other horses, never having to think for himself, he won't have developed a solid foundation of respect and trust in you, and the confidence and and good decision-making in himself, that he needs. This got to be a longer post than I planned. But at least it's back on the trail riding topic! Sarah |
Member: Sarahb47 |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 20, 2005 - 10:40 pm: And one final thought about the original post -- your horse may have had some real worries about the behavior of the unruly horses. I had an OTTB that was great on the trails as long as the other horses behaved in a predictable, controlled manner, but he'd get really nervous when other horses behaved badly. Traffic, tractors, dirt bikes, dogs, water, bridges -- nothing like that bothered him, but bucking or sudden shying by another member of the group just made him really really nervous. He actually worked himself into a colic episode on one ride, where there was a truly out-of-control, bolting, bucking-in-place bad actor that we were following. (The rider fell off three times and voluntarily dismounted another couple of times; apparently, this was SOP for her and that horse.) Following the wild man was better than be in front of him, because my gelding got more nervous when he couldn't see what was going on behind him.I solved the problem by working my horse in close proximity with other quieter animals, in the ring and on the trails, because I realized that he simply wasn't totally comfortable being close to ANY horse he didn't know; and staying far away from certain bad actors. Eventually, my OTTB relaxed, learned to trust me and learned to mostly ignore the problem horses. Sarah |
Member: Lilo |
Posted on Monday, Nov 21, 2005 - 9:12 am: Sarah,I love your post about setting up situations. My mare (had her for 13 years - came off for the first time this year) does fairly well when all horses behave. But if the front horse disappears down the trail, she gets nervous. If horses gallop around in an adjacent pasture - watch out! Christos Axis recommended something similar to your training method - however, in an arena I don't really have problems, and our trails are narrow - no room for circling etc. Still, I want to work harder on "setting up" situations for training her out of her separation anxiety. Thanks to all for this informative thread, Lilo |
Member: Cpacer |
Posted on Monday, Nov 21, 2005 - 9:53 am: The clinic was a blast! Literally. The day started with practicing the ability to control all moving parts of the horse–giving at the poll, bending the neck, moving off shoulder, ribcage, hindquarters. We were told that by the end of the day our horse would be walking through fire—GULP!My horse quickly established himself as the class clown when he removed the halter from the lead clinician’s horse. The first props brought out were the cracking of bullwhips, flying lassos, plastic bags w/tennis balls being thrown around, and a little girl running all over the place with balloons. Definite sensory overload with all this happening at once. Then they introduced the unfolding of a big tarp which our horses had to eventually walk over and hangout on (of course my horse drug it across the arena with his teeth), and a giant beach ball which to my surprise the horses loved punting at each other. Throughout all this you never knew when some firecrackers were going to be thrown out along with an occasional smoke bomb. The next escalation of events before the fire walk was a fake bull-pull and a mini-horse drawn cart. I was so proud of ‘Mr.’, he did awesome! I must say the most fun part of the day was at the end when we had some extra time to kill so they brought 5 baby cows into the arena. We took our turns walking through them and separating them from the fence, and I learned that my little Arabian is a natural cow horse! He was so curious about those cows and went right in there with his head low and his nose crinkled and chased those little buggers! Everyone was quite amused. I wasn’t really expecting all that, thinking a partnership clinic would be more about becoming buddies (whatever that is), but I guess the underlying message is that your horse needs to understand that no matter what kind of crazy stuff you ask of them, you’ll never lead them to get hurt, and they should always trust in you (as long as you can stay calm too). Oh yes, and I took him out for a trail ride by ourselves yesterday. We encountered deer, a tractor bulldozing trees, and a burn pile without incident. |
Member: Dyduroc |
Posted on Monday, Nov 21, 2005 - 5:29 pm: cp, thank you for posting about the clinic. What an interesting 'agenda'! Your experience has given me a lot to think about, especially since your solo trail ride went without incident.Remarkable! By the way, love your description of the class clown's antics! What a character! D. |