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Discussion on Trailor Loading Problem | |
Author | Message |
New Member: Timmy2 |
Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2003 - 7:01 pm: I have a friend who has a mustang gelding from BLM. He has been handled and has learned how to lead, give his feet and has been handled for about one year. He is very stubbor to back! or to stay out of your space. My friend asked me to help her with trailering her horse and I told her that I am not a trainer, but I would try to help. We had little resistanse getting him in the trailer, the problem is that he did not want to back out. We were using a two horse slant, and the horse could turn around, but I have seen several accidents when horses get into the habit of jumping out, so I suggested we stay with him as long as it takes to get him to back out. The method we used was to reward with prise each time he took a step backwards. Unfortunatly we discouraged him if he came forward into the trailer. I have never encountered such a stubbor guy and after two hours he still refused to step out with even one foot. Finnaly it did happen( one foot out) and of course he jumped back into the trailer. We praised him and thought he might get the idea, but to no avail. We ended up getting a small crop and tapped him in the chest to encourage him to back. Each time he did we stoped. This progressed for some time, but he still refuse to back. In the meantime he tried to turn around to go out forward, and we imediatly block him or got him facing forward again. OK well it took a long time and he ended up getting out. But not before I started to lose my cool, literaly, it was about 100 degrees,and he back out more sideways than backwards with us pushing and pulling on him. Now can not get him to go back in. I am afraid that this was a negative experiance for him and I don't know how to fix it. Can you help? |
Member: Shomaker |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 15, 2003 - 2:07 pm: Hi Sue....I am not a trainer, but have read many articles on trailoring problems. How about trying to feed him hay and/or grain in the trailor with it backed up to an enclosed pen so he can come and go at his own free will??? If that isn't possible, then feeding him in the trailer alone may help. Try not to lose your temper and do it when you have time to spare. One small positive step should be rewarded and quit if you have to.....then the next day repeat same and quit only on a good note. Good luck, Elaine |
Member: Lilo |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 15, 2003 - 2:10 pm: Hi Susan,I have used two methods for trailer training with my mare, who was hard to load - Parelli & John Lyons. Both work, if applied consistently. If you could get the trailer loading tapes, it would help (some feed stores rent these kind of tapes out, or maybe the library). The main thing is - allow a lot of time!!! What you did to get him to back is essentially correct - whenever the horse gives even the slightest movement in the right direction, stop the cue (tapping). Be sure the horse does not mind the crop - he should be comfortable with you rubbing it all over his body. Then establish the cue (tapping on the hip means move forward) away from the trailer at first. The last thing is: load 1 foot at a time. In other words: if he puts one foot in the trailer, praise him, then back him. Next - two feet in - then back out. That way he learns to back as he learns to load. This all sounds easier than it is -- believe me, I have spent hours with my mare at this. She would load, but not let me close her in. One thing I have found, that is often not included in the training instructions, is to include frequent break times. The horse finally got close to the trailer and stuck his nose in, or pawed the floor. Back away, go for a little walk or allow 2 minutes of grazing, then start fresh. It gives you time to evaluate your technique (and calm down), and it gives the horse a mental break. Good luck! Lilo |
Member: Dres |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 15, 2003 - 2:20 pm: i have done all the above too.. what i have found to work the best is just take the time everyday .. small steps in the right direction.. i feed all my horses treats in the trailer now.. and my 4 month old goes in for her grooming.. she loves to be scratched so that is the place she gets the full body...i start them all young and do just a little everyday till they are very comfortable in it.. good luck and be patient.. Ann |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 15, 2003 - 5:47 pm: Hello Susan,I think I would remove the trailer from the training equation for a while. The mistake you made was starting trailer loading before you had a gelding that was leading well. The result most likely was confusion. Teach him to dependably lead, stop, and back with easy to recognize vocal and physical cues: walk (tap on the rump), whoa (pressure on the chain over the nose), back (a tap on the chest). In the meantime park the trailer in the pasture and start feeding him from the door, moving it a little farther in when he is comfortable with where it’s at. By the time he is ready to relearn trailer loading he should be pretty comfortable around the trailer. Note the trailer in the pasture probably represents a hazard, particularly the tongue, so be careful and cover any sharp edges. DrO |
Member: Leilani |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 15, 2003 - 6:06 pm: Sue,Cherry Hill wrote a book on safe trailering and in it she details the ground work needed prior to loading a horse into a trailer. Good stuff. |
Member: Alden |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 15, 2003 - 10:10 pm: Hello Susan,DrO is right on the mark, get the ground work done first. Leading well and as importantly backing well, backing in the open and between other things. Use cones, gates, and ground poles. He should back easily and quitely. I firmly believe you can't bribe a horse with food, at least not into anything he really doesn't want to do. With ground work firmly in place teaching a horse to load for life will only take a few hours. If you can find Clinton Anderson's video on trailer loading, he explains the process very well and clearly. Alden |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2003 - 9:21 am: Susan,Don’t forget we have a careful explanation of loading horses in the Training Section. DrO |
New Member: Cjaracz |
Posted on Thursday, Jul 8, 2004 - 8:44 pm: Hi there - I would like some feedback on training an appendix gelding to trailer load. This horse has been hauled before, but it is consistently getting more difficult to load this fellow. Today I couldn't get him loaded at all despite 4 hours of attempts.I feel like I'm doing everything wrong with this horse. He trusts me enough to get close to the trailer and he thinks about putting a foot up to start to enter. But as soon as anyone tries to assist he gets worse and backs up/runs backwards to avoid moving forward. He literally does much better when it is just me inside the trailer and no helpers behind. I've tried using a broom to encourage him to move forward and have someone else lead him in but he still manages to elude loading. Unfortunately, even though he has successfully loaded in the past I think the use of the broom most recently and in the past has done more harm than good. I'm attending a Parelli clinic tomorrow and am hoping to get some ideas and I plan on using some of the Linda Tellington-Jones ground exercises to improve his confidence. It just bums me out that he is such a sensitive horse and I make things more difficult for him. I'm a seasoned rider and am by no means a novice, but I've never run across a horse that is so sensitive and smart when it comes to training and avoidance. Thanks for any feedback anyone has. |
Member: Dres |
Posted on Thursday, Jul 8, 2004 - 9:08 pm: Christine , can you back your trailer into a barn opening/ door? i have found if i can 'close' all the other doors for a horse to escape, they will go in... you will need an aggressive helper with a long whip to keep the horse from backing up.. the good thing tho.. is all they can do is back or go forward, no side ways to evade...best of luck.. Ann |
Member: Jerre |
Posted on Thursday, Jul 8, 2004 - 9:59 pm: Christine, Parelli -- and many other natural trainers -- have proven force-free ways to get a horse to willingly go into a trailer. As you have found, human muscle (and frustration and anger) is no match for a horse. Someone will get hurt.Unless you have an urgent need to get a horse into a trailer on a particular day (they're dying and have to get to the vet/you're escaping a fire, etc!), there's no reason to resort to multiple helpers/brooms, etc. Find out how the NH guys do it and take some time with it. Parelli has a new DVD on it, and I'm sure other NH trainers have videos available. I watched John Lyons load my friend's "totally unloadable" mare -- it took him about half an hour and she was standing quietly in the trailer while Lyons sat on the ramp. We were gob struck. With preparation, just about any horse will walk in on their own, on a loose lead, with you outside the trailer. It's so worth the time it takes! |
Member: Dres |
Posted on Thursday, Jul 8, 2004 - 11:12 pm: i agree.. PREPARATION is the key... my post was for the have to get the horse home, works every time...also.. tho.. i have seen the NH do their magic in less then an hour.. (clinic time) i have also seen these same horses NOT get in the trailer OR stand for a rider to get on their back.. there is something to say about what the NH can do.. but it does not always go home that way.. Ann |
Member: Jerre |
Posted on Thursday, Jul 8, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Ann, you're so right. NH doesn't train the horse, it trains the person. And until the person can present it to the horse, there's no guarantee the horse will stay "trained." That's why a skilled, sensitive handler can get the most unruly horse to do a "miraculous" turnaround, and the owner, or whoever the less-skilled next person is, will not have the same result.I've found much bigger changes in myself through natural horsemanship than in my horses -- who were likely waiting all this time for me to finally "get it." |
Member: Cjaracz |
Posted on Friday, Jul 9, 2004 - 1:09 am: Everyone thank you for your comments. When I let the woman who was coordinating the clinic, Sally, know that I was having difficulty she offered to come out and help. I just got home and am so impressed with the NH that - well - I'm amazed. Problem solved. After she did her thing my horse was looking forward to getting into the trailer, no evading, and no "force" used what so ever. My horse basically did it on his own and is now very confident about loading into the trailer. I was even able to do it.There is something to be said about knowing that your horse feels good about doing something for you and that scare(brooms) tactics are not necessary. Thanks again for all of your comments. I'm looking forward to being able to participate in tomorrow's clinic with my horse instead of just auditing. |
Member: Cowgrl |
Posted on Friday, Jul 9, 2004 - 10:07 am: Christine, what type of trailer do you have? Is it a slant or straight load? I'm having difficulty loading my mustang in a two horse straight. If I load him without another horse and the divider moved to the side, he's much better, but with another horse in there and the divider in the center, he won't load unless I offer a bribe. He'll put his two front feet in and is willing to stand there all day. If I get after him tapping with a stick, he flies backward. He'll also swing his body to the side and walk across the ramp and not up it. He's great loading in a slant - walks in, backs out, turns around, very cooperative. Once he's loaded in the two horse he rides like a pro and backs out nice and carefully. It's just getting him in there that is a problem. I know he's not afraid of the trailer, he just has this little game he has to play. I don't think the usual methods will work here - feeding him inside, John Lyons, etc. I think he needs to realize that I'm in charge and when I say load he says "yes ma'am." I don't think I've taken a firm enough stance with him. Being a mustang, he is extremely intelligent and knows when he has the upper hand. Ah well, it's all a learning experience. He's my first mustang and they are so different from domestic born horses. |
Member: Cjaracz |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 - 3:19 pm: Holly, after attending the Parelli clinic I now understand that everything we ask our horse to do is dependent upon what role our horse views us as playing in his herd. The Parelli philosophy focuses on interacting with our horses in such a way that the horse understands that we are his trusted and loved leader in a non forceful, non violent way. As part of the clinic they emphasize the "prey" mentality and how a horse is wired to persist against predators, thus your issue with the standing in the trailer all day only half loaded.You mention that your mustang needs to see you as the person in charge. My suggestion would be for you to attend a Level 1 Partnership Parelli clinic near you (one that is taught by a certified and endorsed Parelli instructor) so that you can learn how to achieve this relationship in a kind, intelligent, and, most importantly, in horse speak manner. It was the best time and money that I have invested. My horses confidence and my confidence have skyrocketed. And although I do have a two horse slant, at the end of the clinic I simply sent my horse in the direction of the trailer and in he walked. It was so nice not to worry about how I was going to get my horse home and also to know that it was his choice. Good luck with your mustang. I'd love to hear what happens. Also, I forgot to mention that there is a DVD that Pat Parelli produces called "Trouble Free Trailer Loading" that is an excellent illustration of the natural philosophy. |
Member: Cowgrl |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 - 3:53 pm: Thanks Christine. In fact, I am in touch with a breeder of Nokota mustangs in my area who also does training/lessons via the Parelli method. They are having an open house on the 17th so I'll get with him and talk about taking some lessons from him. He's already let me know he's interested in assisting me to achieve "a positive relationship with me as the leader." I think the time spent with this trainer will be money well invested. The guy has a Nokota stud that he has taught to lie down on command, jump, rear, etc. and then he gets off and the horse gives him a huge hug. It's so obvious they adore each other and that's the kind of relationship I want with Dakota.I'll let you know how it goes. |
Member: Alden |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 - 6:29 pm: I’m looking at these posts and it occurs to me it is amusing when people use the terms "Parelli Method", or so and so's method, or even Natural horsemanship training for that matter. It has been around for hundreds (probably thousands) of years and the horses have known it all along. Now Pat Parelli and John Lyons (and many others) have done a good job of marketing it but they haven’t created anything new.It would be much more correctly called “The Horses’ method” because it belongs to them, we are just borrowing. It used to be the old timers kept it a big secret because they made their living training horses not selling DVDs. The good ones also became “Horse whispers” because people didn’t understand and the trainers weren’t going to blow a good thing by talking about it. Just an observation and I apologize if it is too far off topic. Good day, Alden |
Member: Cowgrl |
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 - 11:38 am: Good one Alden. I guess the reason it is now dubbed "Natural Horsemanship" is that the old way was "You're going to do it my way or else" method. Thank God not too many people subscribe to that way of training anymore. Last night my husband and I went to watch a friend of mine who just graduated from the Ken McNabb apprenticeship program get on a filly for the first time. The filly belongs to another friend who was also there. After letting her get over her nervous jitters, he was able to mount and got her moving around pretty calmly. She was still nervous but she trusted her handler and that was the difference. Even husband was impressed and he used to be of the "my way or the highway" genre.I've been in horses in every way imaginable over the last 40 years but every day I find I know so little about these amazing creatures. |