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Discussion on Need help Training Timid Horse!! | |
Author | Message |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 7:20 am: I am at the end of my rope here, so advice, comments, and/or criticism needed.Tango is a 4 year old Morisan/Qtr horse mix. 16h, and about 1400 pounds of pure scarety cat. I have had him 3 years, and we've overcome feet handling fears, he leads nicely, does pretty good with ground work in the pen. He's always been timid but curious. I have been wanting to sell him for the last 2 years but some lameness issues from being kicked kept me from doing so. Now he's 4, sound, and we are just starting saddling and ground driving. Everyday is the same: I spend what seems like hours (it's not) advancing and retreating with the blanket, and then the saddle before it's on him. I never know if he'll let me tighten the cinch or jump outa his skin. (it's gotten so bad with some things, that he jumps, I jump, he jumps because I jumped) Then I ask for some lunging, turning and facing, and walking calmly between me and the fence. At some point he manages to go into a bucking spree, usually about the time I think FINALLY he's getting better. Yesterday, I did an approach and retreat with some bags with cat litter in them. The ideal was to tie them on the saddle to get him used to "legs" at his sides and the noise. (yes, he's had plastic bags all over him and still is scared to death of them, sometimes) He accepted them at the walk and trot, then suddenly went off bucking again and we ended up with the saddle on his side!! Boy, was I worried about getting close to him to undo it! Did manage to get it off, and then showed him the bags again, rubbed him with them, and we finished with ground driving. I've had days where I laid all over him, and put weight in the stirrups. But he's so unpredictable that I've never sat in the saddle all the way. I know it's fear that is the problem as he will come put his big head in my chest and just stand there...like "save me mommy". But he's way too big to be such a baby. He's not the first horse I've started, more like the 10th, and I thought I knew more with getting older but he's really frustrating for me. I am beginning to question my ability to ever ride him successfully. I call him my idiot, but he's making me look like one!! Any thoughts anyone? Alden? |
Member: Alden |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 10:21 am: Angie,Sounds like you have a real challenge on your hands . I think we have to approach each horse as an individual when training them. I find each horse reacts in differing degrees to our my body language, ranging from nearly comatose to explosive. Often we attribute highly reactive horses to fear, but I find there are the playful ones, and the over achievers, and it may look like fear. I'd suggest you step back and look at your approach and language to your training exercises. Also watch him close and see if it's really fear or is it playfulness or a horse trying too hard to please. I often make the mistake of moving forward in difficulty to quickly. Just because he does an exercise correctly a few times doesn't necessarily mean it the right time to move forward. I firmly believe each horse matures mentally at differing rates and not necessarily connected to their physical maturity. I've also seen a few horses that will appear to tolerate something like a plastic bag for a few moments only to suddenly explode. Unlike most horses that will move away from the bag these look almost paralyzed by fear and suddenly they react like they just realized the bags there. People either stop waving the bag when the horse is standing still but not relaxed or they stop when the horse explodes; both mistakes. I'm just throwing a few idea out here that may provide you a 'light bulb' moment You may enlist the help of someone you trust to watch you and your horse. Sometimes someone standing back can see something you miss being too close. Good day, Alden |
Member: Kthorse |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 1:13 pm: Hi, Does he make you nervous? If he does then he is maybe reacting to your wondering how he is going to be that day. Some horses are more sensative and in tune to there handlers than others. Alden makes some good points about timing etc. What about going back in his training to something you both feel confortable doing and moving slower.I think thats what I would do. Katrina |
Member: Lhenning |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 1:36 pm: Hi Angie,I've found with my sometimes flighty 4 yr old that lunging him first, before I begin any de-sensitizing, helps him burn some energy off and slow down a bit. I do think if fear is his problem, then de-sensitizing is the answer. Since this horse sounds more sensitive than your others, he may need a much slower approach than you are used to. I would try to find one thing to keep working on until he is great at it, before moving on to something else. Good luck, Linda |
Member: Tuckern |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 2:06 pm: Hi Angie,It sounds to me like you may be progressing too fast with Tango, and/or, he's not completely comfortable before you move on to something more complex. I'm currently working with a timid horse. Felarof is a 4 year old grade gelding. When I bought him, I was told that he was green broke, and had been ridden on many trail rides. Although that is probably true (I bought him from a friend), Felarof didn't have any foundation knowledge, the saddle was just thrown on him, and off they'd go. So, I've started completely over with this horse. One thing you can try with Tango, is to start over with desensitizing. You should be able to rub him all over with anything (horse eating bags and blankets, etc), and he should stand relaxed. In the beginning, if he starts running around, don't stop. Keep it up until he stops moving, and either keeps his feet still for 15 seconds and/or relaxes. Then retreat. Rub him with your hand, tell him what a good boy he is, and do it all over again. The goal is to get no fear reaction from him at all when he sees items coming toward him. Do this 7 days in a row, or until he's completely comfortable, then move on. Once he's completely comfortable with one thing, use that as your starting block when you work with him, and as something you can go back to if he's not ready for the next step. You always want to end a session on a good note. For getting horses used to having the cinch tightened, I just get a rope, and put that around them, and just practice snugging it up, and loosening it, rhythmically, until the horse relaxes. Anyway, there's just a couple things I've had success with when dealing with a timid horse. Nicole in New Mexico |
Member: Muffi |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 6:01 pm: Angie - does Tango scare you? make you nervous? he may notice that and wonder what you are afraid of or nervous about. it becomes geometric after that. you get scared - he wonders why you are scared and gets scared and does scared horse things that make you more nervous or afraid. It's like the snow ball effect. Have you thought of putting him in training with a trainer? or having some one else come out and help (was that Alden who suggested that above? ) If not to help train, to watch what you are doing and maybe help you to relax to help Tango relax? When I first got my horse I have a fear of his abilities. once I got over that now I call him my little 16.2 Kitten! it was worth it all. I went to several trainers and got hits and tips from all of them. Toss them all in the blender what comes out could be stuff you may find you will benefit you in your daily routine! good luck |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 6:06 pm: Thanks Alden and everyone.Hmmm....yes, he's very sensitive and the most playful outa the 4. I do believe he tries to please when his attention is on ME, and he's not watching butterflies which seems to be a new hobby of his! I do think my timing, and body language must be off with him, that does make sense. I am kinda new to this "desensitizing", just going off of what I've seen on tv. It sounds like I need to back off, and start very basic and build more slowly, like Nicole says. Guess I have been in a hurry. My husband has been pressuring me to sell him and I have it in my head I want to ride him first. I can be a little bull headed sometimes and then I get determined to make things work instead of backing off. Maybe my patience isn't as good as I thought it was! Nicole I've had the rope around him all over and pretended it was the cinch. He acted fine but it's like his brain wakes up on a different channel suddenly and then he blows up. My past experiences with starting youngsters has been some sacking out, lunging, ground driving, and riding. And lots of "respect on the ground", along with showing the horse the neighborhood before riding. Even my spaz Arab wasn't this goofy when I started her. But she didn't intimidate me with her size so that may be part of it, and I guess that's something I have to work on. Good point Katrina that he may be reacting to me. He may know me better than I know me! |
Member: Alden |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 8:27 pm: I've got a gelding that was a butterfly watcher, or anything else except my agenda. His brain is just starting to jell at five years old.And I also have a four year old over achiever Ask for an inch and she's just as likely to go up two feet, spin and do a round pen lap bucking. A funny story on her happened last spring. Riding up in the forest there was still some snow drifts in the trees. She would go into the snow, smell it, then jump out it. After the third time I had to move her away from the snow before I landed on my butt! The games they'll play It was the first time she'd encounter snow while I was on her. So you see, I can sympathize. Good day, Alden |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 - 9:39 am: Alden,Thank you for the smiles this morning. I guess from now on I will call Tango my "over achiever" or "Mr. Sensitive" instead of the few other choice words I've called him!! You have a great understanding of what I am dealing with. Tango has done some great moves when I've asked for an inch, interesting, his breeding as a bucking horse?! I wasn't able to work with him yesterday so he got a vacation from me, and I had a day to digest everyones' advice. But we'll try some things again today...hope I live to tell about it! You have a good day too Alden, and watch out for those scary snow piles. |
Member: Miamoo |
Posted on Friday, Mar 31, 2006 - 9:25 am: When you are advancing/retreating with the saddle pad, do you retreat only after he relaxes or do you retreat when he shows he is nervous and reacts?Try to find a chance to watch Clinton Anderson on RFD (if you don't get that channel maybe someone could tape it for you). He is the best I have seen with desensitizing. He is amazing and his methods are easy to follow. He is funny too. My daughter who is not a horse person loves to watch him. She laughs and laughs. Ella |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Friday, Mar 31, 2006 - 6:14 pm: Ella,Yes, I've seen many clinicians on RFD including Clinton. I hope I am retreating at the right time, but I may be off in my timing. There is a technique and talent involved with all of this, which takes time to develop. I will pay more attention to his reaction though. Thanks for posting. |
Member: Maggienm |
Posted on Saturday, Apr 1, 2006 - 8:57 am: Angie, An overachiever can be a real challenge.With very sensitive TB's I've had better luck with more of a slow motion approach rather than approach retreat. What I mean is; say your goal is to accustom the horse to a fluttering plastic bag. First do something he is good at, at first maybe all he can do is be groomed, OK, groom away, if he can be lunged do some lunging, mostly working trot, my goal is to relax and build confidence. Now school starts, I stand some distance away, slowly start waving the bag, now the horse determines what I do, if he pretty much ignores me I move closer, unless he really freaks I move forward a step at a time until he moves off, I continue to wave slowly and reapproach, ( I do this in a corral, the horse is not tied) the first session can take awhile, but don't feel you can't stop until you are beside him. You can stop anytime you take a step closer and he doesn't move away. Periodically I will simply stop waving and walk up to the horse and rub him, if he doesn't want the bag to touch him yet, OK, just my hand. then I walk away and start waving. Within a few days I can approach at a normal pace waving the bag(perhaps not energetically flipping it around) Then I must increase the intensity, standing far enough away that he shouldn't mind I wave quickly. stop approach, rub, walk away, wave quickly, repeat, slowly reducing the distance I walk away, if he throws his head up and trots off, OK, ignore that and continue. He will get the idea that he is putting out way too much effort. Good luck |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 4, 2006 - 7:21 am: Thanks Lori,I missed your post til today. We've had such nasty weather and I've been gone a lot also, no training going on for Tango. I believe your suggestions make sense. I have suspected that for many horses some clinicians' ways are a little too intense. I will keep your suggestions in mind when I can get back outside and work with him. Angie |
Member: Maggienm |
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 4, 2006 - 7:55 am: Angie, by the way, you said at the beginning of your post that your horse is a Morisan, is that a Morgan cross? curious |
Member: Dtranch |
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 4, 2006 - 8:55 am: Angie ... Just my 2 cents worth here.One mistake often made is to concentrate too much on the problem area. Some will work and work on the problem, which in my experience only makes it worse before it improves. Some say you are moving too quick if you don't resolve this problem first before moving on. I have a horse now that the owner says is afraid of plastic bags. This was an understatement, I have never seen a horse so absolutely petrified and explosive when a bag is presented. He snorts and his entire body stiffens and he bolts ... and this is from 50 feet away. After discussing with owner, I found that when this fear was realized, they began to work with desensitizing. What they actually did was come at this horse with a plastic bag relentlessly day after day with no results. In fact they say he is worse than ever ... thus they brought him to a trainer. I began with basic ground work including all sending, releasing, and flexing exercises, with no bag anywhere near for a full week. I wanted to soften the horse in general and find things the horse was good at. Only then did I introduce the bag and only for limited time and in conjunction with other exercises. First, I just laid it on the ground and did sending exercises around it for a while and then moved on to something he was good at, then back to the bag. This horse got to where he seemed to enjoy jumping over a barrel in our sending exercises, so after a few minutes with the bag, we would go back to barrel jumping for a while, and so on. I then introduce the bag to the jumping, just laying on the ground near the barrel and occasionally moving closer and closer til eventually laying it on the barrel. Sorry for rambling on, but the point is that he is improving daily til now I can ride with the bag on a stick applying pressure and release and letting him get used to it. He has a way to go, but is much, much better. My thoughts are If we make the bag a major issue, then it will be a major issue. I find things I can reward him for then casually approach the bag again, then back to comfort zone. I feel if we keep pushing the "scary" object, it just gets scarier. I guess I'm just saying to be patient and work it in to your routine instead of making it your major emphasis, and let him figure out that it is not going to kill him. DT |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 4, 2006 - 3:29 pm: Lori,His sire is called a Morisan....not sure of spelling, but yes that is a Fresion/Morgan cross. I always forget how to spell Freison too...anyhow, Tango is registered as a Frieson Sport horse although technically is is only 1/4 Frieson. He dam is listed as a grade Qtr horse. And everyone is telling me it's the Morgan in him that is the problem!! Dennis, Please ramble on!! I enjoy your posts always. I think you have made an excellant point. I was putting my foot in the stirrup and laying on Tango for a few days in a row prior to the last blowups. Then we had more "winter" and I didn't get to work with him. So when I started again I tried to review all ground work, including the plastic bag. Next I wanted to make sure "legs" didn't scare him, hence the feed sacks on the saddle. And you are correct, I am putting so much emphasis on a few things, instead of the things he is good at!! Just trying to be safe on my part!! If the wind ever stops blowing here, and the rain/snow mess goes away, I will look at Tango through different eyes and I think be more matter-of-fact with him. A nice walk through the woods, some lunging, and basic ground stuff to get us on friendly terms again. Thanks for your insight Dennis. |
Member: Dtranch |
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 4, 2006 - 4:11 pm: You are welcome Angie.Just don't get frustrated working on all the bad stuff. Remember that your horse gets frustrated too. And never forget the love of the horse and the bond that got you into all this in the first place. They are a magnificent animal and I enjoy every minute with them ... even the bad ones. Guess that's why I train for grocery money .. huh. DT |
Member: Leilani |
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 4, 2006 - 6:21 pm: Thank you Dennis for your words of wisdom. I too, have a young mare now and with her the trials and tribulations of helping her to understand me and I understand her. I have received a lot of 'opinions' and have learned to smile and nod or vice versa.Anuhea has her good days and not so good days as do I, but I love and enjoy the journey so much that when we have finally solved one puzzle I wonder if I'll miss that behavior. She is also making me a better rider on the way. Leilani PS You are my kind of trainer. |
Member: Liliana5 |
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 4, 2006 - 7:17 pm: I kept reading good things about Dennis yes very good advice, and also remind me of a section a welsh pony we had, as she was a bit of a piggie (which horse isn't, we put some feed in a bag, and her greed was greater than her fear!but Dennis advice is truly great |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 8:04 am: Dennis,Be glad to give you some grocery money if you would make a stop here and spend some time with Tango! Why is it all the good trainers I hear about are in another state? Not sure why it is, but no matter how many horses I have, there is always one that is "challenging" and takes up 80% of my horse "training" time. And that one is my favorite one to go spend time with. Weird. Either I need help in the head, or maybe I just enjoy the journey more than the end result? O.K., we'll go with the last one!! We have a BEAUTIFUL day here in the U.P., so hopefully I have time to get out there and see if Tango and I "tango".....as in dance, not fight! |
Member: kaylab |
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 - 8:50 pm: My nervous and timid mare has made huge progress using clicker training. I actually call it "braveness training!"Alexander Kurland is the author I'm most familiar with who has several books on clicker training horses. I've even used clicker training with my gelding just because he thought it was a blast. (We weren't solving any issues.) But for my mare, it's really taught her to be more bold. It's not a cure all, but since what you're doing isn't working very well, and since clicker training seems to train horses much faster than traditional methods for things like sacking out, I'd really recommend you give it a go! |
Member: terrido |
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 - 9:12 pm: You've gotten lots of great advice in here. Sounds like he is super sensitive and hasn't gotten to trust you completely,I'd follow Alden's advice, go slow, be consistent , be fair. You have to be brave too I think. It's hard not to jump if he does, but you have to try hard to ignore his actions and remain extra calm. That should help a bit. I'd look at all your body language, how quickly you do things, how consistently you do them, etc. and also look at your actions/reactions. After all this time you'd think he'd have more trust in you. There's a reason in there somewhere. Good luck |
Member: alden |
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 - 8:38 am: Angie, I saw this thread was revived and I'm wondering how your horse is doing. I'd also like to comment on clicker training.I don't have any doubts that clicker training (the process) works, but I always like to look under the hood. If we look at top trainers and "The Road to the Horse" Championship as an example I think we see process, not the tools, is key. It's been stated here that clicker training is faster than traditional methods, but I haven't seen it used at The road to the horse and it doesn't get much faster than those guys My theory is that all the different training methods boil down to timing and reward. If the clicker helps some with timing that's great, if you can achieve the timing of the top trainers without it's even better. Often what we see as a timid horse or scaredy cats are really just more sensitive to their surroundings, thus more sensitive to pressure from our actions. As we refine our approach, in particular timing, we begin to see this kind of horse as sensitive, light and smart rather than timid or scared. Angie can confirm my ramblings (or shoot it full of holes ), but I find horses like her's teach me more, more than I teach them sometimes, than the easy ones because I have to look inward and rethink my timing, and sometimes my approach and method. Good day, Alden |
Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 - 10:25 am: Alden,I saw this was back up, and figured it would die out when Kayla & Terrie realised it was from 2 years ago! Then I reread all the helpful comments and saw a lot of stuff I needed to rethink, and change my program so to speak. And being you addressed me directly... I am rather embarrassed to say Tango still isn't ready to jump on and ride; although I have rode him. It didn't go well, and I couldn't wait to be back on the groud on my own 2 feet! Still seems to be we make progress and then it's back 3 steps. I had actually given up on him for some time. That might have been when I decided to give him to Denny! Unfortunately, that hasn't worked out: truck needs a new tranny, no horse trailer, long ways from Upper MI to Indiana! As to how Tango is doing now. I am trying to think of something that is really positive here...well, he's been very patient with me as I learn to trim his hoofs myself. (which is where my horse training time goes these days, I am slow as a do my own trimming person, working on 4 horses) I have been sitting on him in the stall, after doing some massage work on him. What I've noticed is he isn't as worried about me sitting on him as he is worried about the saddle being on him. He's still jumpy though about things above him, and still "goosey". So have to figure out how to address the-saddle-isn't-going-to-kill-me-synDrOme. Even doing massage on him, he's the most wired horse I've ever met. Seems the poll and neck area are the most sensitive spots; and of course, his head goes waaay up over everything, might be a connection there! And my trimming, as his feet change, I expect that will help too, he might have back pain issues from being improperly trimmed. As for clicker training, I looked into that a few years ago. I just couldn't see using that. I agree with Alden on this one. This isn't so much a horse having a problem, this is a person, ME, not being smart enough to figure out what to do to communicate with him and getting him to think for himself. My biggest problem is I feel sorry for him because he's not happy and secure. He's a very sweet horse! Just sooo scared! I did buy a clicker, and tried it, it scared him! LOL!! Denny's advice with the horse that was scared of plastic bags hit a note with me, and I am going to follow what he did with that horse. Lots of just bonding and working on as many confidence building skills I can work on without thinking about the ultimate goal of riding. Of course that would be nice; he is supposed to be my riding horse! It's a sad situation right now with prices skyrocketing on everything, and the horses not selling. I really need to get down to 2 horses. So I have to either get Tango to the point where I can sell him, or know I can safely ride him and he stays. (prefer that latter) |
Member: kaylab |
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 - 10:29 am: Alden, Road to the Horse is about saddle breaking a horse. Yes, it includes desensitizing them but that's only part of what's going on. You have EXPERT horse trainers participating in that, and most of us mere mortals are not made of that stuff. It's not an apt role model and in fact, it's one of the things I'm seriously uncomfortable with in that whole competition. Getting a well broke horse doesn't happen in a few hours.Second, Road to the Horse is likely to have typical horses with typical issues on the way towards becoming broke to ride. The horse in the original post is having some pretty serious issues and the OP has not made good progress in a time that's been pretty lengthy. The horse does not sound like a typical horse as the OP sounds like she is knowledgeable. Her doing more of the same is unlikely to be a good solution. Clicker training is simple operant conditioning with principles that date back to BF Skinner and even Pavlov and a long history of great success on a variety of animals. It is used in every zoo in the country to make managing animals safer and less traumatic. You don't sound like you know anything about it and I'd like to encourage you to read up on it. It's not magic. It's science. And _anyone_ can do it and it will work on virtually ANY mammal and many non-mammals. You don't need to be Chris Cox to make it work. ;-) |
Member: dtranch |
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 - 10:53 am: Angie ... I am now working with another paint who has many of the same issues. I do sending exercises with him as I set on top of the corral panels, working over his head. I send him away, then ask him to come back to me while I am on the fence. He is beginning to get used to all the things coming from overhead.He is also extremely timid of the saddle. Once I get him saddled, I work with him around barrels, poles on the ground, crossing plywood bridge, walking over tarp ... just all kinds of things to get him thinking about something besides the saddle. He is progressing nicely so far. I will also ride another horse while ponying him while I reach over him and move ropes around, etc. Pay very close attention, and reward every slightest try with your bonding and praise. You are building confidence in him and in yourself at the same time. Never underestimate the value of just taking a break and rewarding the both of you. Put him on a lead, and just let him walk around with you doing chores, etc. Safely of course, but expose him to everything you can possibly think of, and reward and praise him each and every time he handles something. Good luck ... and Tango and I will meet some day I'm sure. DT |
Member: terrido |
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 - 1:41 pm: Training method A, training method B... take your pick.Bottom line is this. After two years now he is not much better than he was, so you haven't "helped" him overcome his skiddishness. This comes directly from trust in you. period. I don't care what anyone says, if he's afraid of things still that you introduce he simply doesn't trust you enough to try to NOT be afraid. Girthy-ness, saddle shyness may be due to ill fitting tack initially, and the memories never go away. You can help retrain, but the memories always remain. So, my advice is to work on the relationship, help him learn to really trust you. Clicker training is one way, natural methods are one way, etc. But this horse does not need quite so much alpha-I am your leader stuff as he does just plain confidence in YOU that he can fully trust you. Neither of the above methods will give you this fully, unless you spend years. Well you've already had years and it hasn't helped much. Sorry I am not a clicker fan, mostly because (giggle) my timing usually sucks, and again it's a crutch of sorts, I doubt I would be clicking in the saddle on a green horse. Just me, no offense meant to anyone. The bottom line is if you really want to try to help him overcome some of his fear, you have to build much more trust in you from him. I only know one sure way to do that, email me privately: terrie.douglas@sun.com. Otherwise just let him be a pasture pony or try to sell him to someone that can work with him. Again, no offense meant!! |
Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 - 2:52 pm: Terrie,Just quickly here, gotta run; you are absolutely correct. He is not DUMB. I am the ONLY human he's had contact in for the last 4 years, 10 months. I've made mistakes that scared him, and scared me. He's not like other horses I've started that is for sure. He wants to trust me, of that I have no doubt. We have a wonderful bond in many ways. Just got done trimming his hoofs. The wind is blasting, and in a metal barn, you can imagine the noise. He was fine through all of that. BTW, I've tried selling, no match yet. Most people that were even slightly interested didn't have even near the knowledge and skill I have, and I didn't want him to end up passed around. So, what's your secret to the over coming his fear of trusting me? |
Member: terrido |
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 - 4:51 pm: Angie,Please email me privately: terrie.douglas@sun.com or terriedouglas@hughes.net Thanks! Sounds to me like he is well worth working with, you're on a good path toward trust anyway. |
Member: scooter |
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 - 6:51 pm: I don't know I have a Tango! Hank is his name and I never could make up my mind if he was smart or stupid. Smart won out.....smarter than me!I have had a few years of he$$ with that animal. He trusts me more than anything, he will leave the herd to be with me, I can do anything to him without a halter(other than soaking his feet...long story) I can send him on a trailer or just about anywhere, by pointing my finger. He round pens wonderfully and has a give and take to die for. He will give to any pressure with a touch of a finger. BUT when I put a saddle on that boy he was a fruit cake, he tried everything he could to scare me and HE DID....completely his purpose. I tried to work thru this and I did finally, but it took years. The one thing that worked best was ignoring his antics...I quit fighting with him and instead RELAXED and started laughing at him, he was not amused that he couldn't get me worked up anymore. He still has his moments, not many...but that horse taught me to be a horse person and I will be forever grateful. BUT I never want another like him I'm too old! |
Member: erika |
Posted on Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 - 9:20 am: Angie, just a thought, trailering your Tango yourself to Dennis has got to cost a lot. Gas, food, hotel, etc.round trip... Why don't you call a national hauler (or Cyndy on HA) and get a price for having him taken on a tractor/trailer?I had my horse shipped from Lexington, KY to northern NJ several years back for $300. I don't think I could drive my truck and trailer that far round trip for that much. Granted, it's probably more now, but still cheaper than I could do it. They ride better on the big rigs, too, and they get there faster for less stress on the horse. Then that cowboy can fix ol' Tango up for you. |
Member: alden |
Posted on Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 - 5:51 pm: My point with using The road to the horse as an example isn't that I'm that good, or anyone here should be that good (except maybe Dennis ) And I understood that they are starting from scratch with those horses, but I may be mistaken. I'm trying to say that without regard to method, timing is critical. And if there is something we mortals can learn from the experts, timing is more important than method.For instance I use plastic grocery bags as one tool for sacking a horses. I can give a bag to two people, one will scare the hell out of the horse and the other will gain the horse's trust. The difference will be timing, knowing when to reward is more important than the reward. Anyhow horses like Angie's is what keeps this interesting And taking a break, specially when frustration levels of either party are on the rise, is the sign of a good horseman (person) Good day, Alden |
Member: dtranch |
Posted on Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 - 6:36 pm: Alden .. you are absolutely right. The release is the most important, and often overlooked ingredient. A horse learns from pressure and release, but he does not learn from the application of pressure .. he actually learns from the release itself. That is his reward, along with your praise and acknowledgement of course. And, taking a break is often the best method of all.Thanks again Alden for your kind words. I think maybe we should do that road to the horse thing as a team. |
Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Friday, Apr 18, 2008 - 8:05 am: Hey guys, I wonder if Tango knows he's starting to be a HA Equine Celebrity?I think he does, he left the herd and hay pile yesterday to come and bond with me, and do some mutual grooming. I felt like he was telling me "Hey humanoid, I think you're starting to get it, no more waving plastic bags at me, I am not ready for that scary saddle yet, lets just hang out so I can trust you again. I'll try really hard, and you try really hard to be patient the while I work on being brave. I don't want to be sold, that would be the scariest of all having someone else do those things all over again. I know I am meant to be your horse!" (he gets a little long winded, huh?) I wasn't even going to post on here when this thread came up after all this time, as I thought there is nothing new to add. But now I believe this came up for a reason, and new doors have opened. You all have me thinking and have me excited again to get out there and work with this wonderful horse. I appreciate that! Alden, I'll take it as a compliment that I am a good horse person for taking a break, but, um, was taking like all winter off a tad too long? LOL!! A Denny and Alden team? That would be fantastic! Hopefully Tango won't be the problem horse! |
Member: lhenning |
Posted on Friday, Apr 18, 2008 - 12:47 pm: Hi Angie,I hear your frustration. One method I used to gain trust came almost by accident. I started hand walking my guy around the farm using a 20' longe line. He is barn sour and gets very nervous away from the barn and his buddies. I used the sending exercise to calm him down whenever he got high headed, then we mossied on our way. The long rope gave him room to jump and startle, which he did at first. Sometimes I walked all the way to the end of the longe line and looked back at him and said "well, are you coming or not?". He was afraid to come forward until he saw I was calm. One thing I might add, it is extremely important to be in control of him eating grass. Use a chain if you must, but never let him eat until you say "OK". Being in charge of the food shows leadership. After two or three walks, I noticed my horse coming to me and being more relaxed around me than ever before. We had fun too, and good exercise! Good luck, Linda |