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Discussion on Yearling needs manners | |
Author | Message |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Friday, Jul 28, 2006 - 7:10 pm: My yearling was handled extensively after about a week of age because of a surgery and then daily antibiotics, etc. He's grown to have limited respect for humans.We've done well despite this...we can groom, tie, pick feet and deal with the vet but after today's farrier visit, I'm ready to kill him. Mr. Man didn't want to pick up his back feet (he's always done fine for the farrier before this), so he decided to kick out at the farrier and it took a good 10 minutes of arguing to get him to stand still so my farrier could finish his back feet. I've noticed in the past with leading that if he doesn't want to do something, he'll give an argument about it. He can be pushy and have zero respect for a person's "space". If you get after him, it takes more then the usual shank or mean voice to get him to stand up and pay attention. I'm worried it'll eventually grow into a war anytime he's asked to do something he doesn't want to do. This obviously presents a problem; especially if we are ever in an emergency situation and I need him to cooperate. He lives here at home with me and I really can't afford to send him off for training. I could really use some suggestions for getting this boy back on track before this escalates into a more dangerous situation. He's my first baby (not my first yearling). Help? |
Member: Sunny66 |
Posted on Friday, Jul 28, 2006 - 11:57 pm: Hi Kim,I think there are some threads about this and foals. I remember someone posting that they use a plastic "toy" bat. Makes a loud noise but doesn't hurt...you could try swatting him with that the next time he gets in your space and see what happens. Wear a helmet in case he vigorously objects... All I know for sure is to go back to the beginning and find the hole. I say this everytime, but only because it's been my experience...are you sure he doesn't hurt anywhere? Good luck and stay safe! |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 9:22 am: Hi Aileen! I've been reading all the old posts about bad behavior, LOL! When I'm out picking manure or feeding, Legs does stay out of my way and understands when I say "Move", I mean "Move", although he is known to come back just to make sure I really meant it (maybe this is a symptom of more "bad" behavior?). I was always very sure to be alpha with him. My first run-in with this defiance of his was when we were doing a leading lesson and he kept ignoring me and focusing on the surroundings and getting into my space. I attempted to correct him and he continued to ignore me. I felt like I was "nit-picking" him (which I don't like doing either), but he wasn't getting my message like he does when I'm in the pasture. Yesterday was the first time he's ever blown up with the farrier. I know I don't work with him enough either, which may be another issue. Also, I think I may behave more dominantly with him when he's in the pasture vs. when I'm attached to him with a leadline. Certainly, I feel safer when I'm not having to hold on to 700lbs of freak. Another issue he's picking up on I bet. I do happen to have a plastic bat from one of my kids. It will make a nice noise but not hurt him, so I think I'll try that today. I'll be careful!! As for pain anywhere, I don't think so, but my vet is coming out on Friday to do teeth, so he can certainly check him over! Thanks for the tip!! |
Member: Amara |
Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 2:47 pm: i'm personally not a fan of the big plastic bat or anything used to scare a horse... if you frighten him you'll only lose even more respect and trust, and unless his issue is pain related, which is possible but probably unlikely, than the issue is respect and trust related...a horse lives by virtue of his back legs.. they are his power... in many general situations he's relaxed enough to get over and trust and respect issues he has to let you groom and pick his feet... some days things dont go right, and this is where you see where the lack really is... if you have to say "move" more than once then he doesnt really respect you... you "tell" him to go and if he respects you he goes.. i dont care what age he is... if you see him out with adult horses you'll see that the ones he respects he gives way to always and doesnt pester when they say stop... alpha is not about scaring the horse into submission with a plastic bat.. its about working with him as a horse in a mannner that he understands.... he's not human, and never will be... young horses that are sick are frequently hand fed-this is one of the #1 killers of respect in horses, since anyone (or horse) that gives food away to another is automatically lower on the totem pole... if you have to tie your horse to get him to stand, then you know for sure your issue is respect...yes,even the youngsters can stand quietly.. they do it for their mothers!.. just be careful in how you teach him respect... watch for indicators that its going backwards... good luck |
Member: Sunny66 |
Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 3:25 pm: Hi Kim, I hope you don't find anything physically wrong with him FridayMelissa, I was repeating what I saw on another post...I thought it made sense. I don't have a baby, the youngest I dealt with was 3! So I have no experience with this, and perhaps shouldn't have posted... When a mother means it, she MEANS it. I've seen them kick out at their babies. We don't have the power of a mother's kick, so a bat... I thought... would give the same ... sort of ... impression as a mother's kick but wouldn't hurt... How should she go about teaching this young man? |
Member: Liliana |
Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 3:44 pm: Hi Kim,Is he castrated? I ask this because I had the same problem with my boy, he was an angel up to 7 months old, kind obedient best behaviour, at seven months he decided that he was going to be the boss and even mounted the mares! He would rear if something was not to his liking, quite the little monster. His father and mother are very kind and easy to handle, his grand father was castrated because he also became a monster, admittedly in his case it was due to human abuse! (All but two of my horses are rescues) So two weeks before baby was a year old, I had the vet come and chopped his xmas decorations, it broke my heart being a baby and all but it was for his own good, his father was castrated the same day at 41/2 years old not due to bad behaviour but because I don't want any more surprises with four legs. Also I would recommend that you go back to basics as Aileen mentions. In my opinion a strong no when needed and a treat when good goes a lot further than any gadget or punishment, remember they have a long memory and they do get even eventually! Best of luck and do let us know how you get on! |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 5:27 pm: Melissa, it HAS gone backwards...during that leading lesson I mentioned...the more I said no, it seemed like the more he ignored me. I'd shank, he'd try to run (I understand he was maybe trying to leave the situation). I'd back him, he'd go sideways. I'd move him forward at a walk and he's back on top of me. I noticed yesterday the more "power" we used, the more "power" he used. I don't think that's appropriate. I shouldn't have to battle him when I want him to do something, I understand that. But how do I get the upper hand without being alpha? Better yet, how does someone become alpha if NOT using agressiveness? I agree that gimmicks aren't always an answer but again, if we are in an emergency situation, I won't have time to spend 10 minutes "asking" him to cooperate to prevent him from blowing up. And why is it he respects me when I'm in the pasture (and he's loose, I might add!) more then when he's connected to me? I can guarentee he's not that afraid of me to be next to me, LOL! Questions, questions and MORE questions!! Liliana, he was gelded at 8 days of age due to a scrotal hernia...that's when the daily handling and attention started. That's where I think he lost respect for people.I went out to groom him today and really, really paid attention to his behaviors...he leaned into the brush, leaned and stepped into me..the usual behavior that I don't put up with with my mares. I pushed him away with the brush and told him to move over (3 times at least). No fights, but asking 3 times isn't so great either |
Member: Sunny66 |
Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 5:48 pm: Good luck Kim |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 7:57 pm: Just to clarify, the plastic bat isn't used to frighten a horse. I don't approve of that either. It is used to correct the horse when he goes to bite or whatever. Some people would use a whip. I use the bat because it accomplishes the purpose without hurting the horse. |
Member: Kthorse |
Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 8:00 pm: Melissa I agree with you about the plastic bat. I know people who have used it and have seen horrible results . The horses hide in the back of the stalls and are generally afraid. I would never use one. Not to say anything against those who it has worked for. Kim sometimes you need 3 times or 10 with a pushy youngster. Not that you want to. He sounds like such a handful and I think he just needs extra extra reinforcement. He is probably very smart.You might just have to repeat things over and over and over and he will test you over and over and over. I don't know his personalty so cant advise you but a word of hope. I read an article about a champion western pleasure horse in one of the recent magazines. They said this horse was horrible to train resisted everything. they had to repeat everything over and over then one day he just stopped resisting and became a champion.Maybe you could send him to a trainer if you arent sure what to do with him. Good luck and I am sure it will all work out and you will laugh one day when he is excelling in his life, and say I remember when. |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 8:17 pm: Kthorse, thank you for that story! Yes, he IS a smart one (and huge for his age); probably smarter then me, Thank you for the advice!Let me clarify.. I would never, ever, use something on him to the point of making him cower in a corner or being that afraid...I'm only talking about keeping him out of my space and minding his manners when he's with me. He's a future show horse, so he's going to have to hold onto some of that boldness! I did call my friend who broke out this colts mom. She recently had a baby and is getting married soon but she's going to come over and watch the two of us and give me some tips and teach him to lunge so I can continue with that on my own. She feels he's in his terrible twos and he just needs a job to give him something to do. I'll keep you all updated and let you know if the vet finds anything on Friday. FYI, I told her about the bat and she said an empty water bottle works much better. It's smaller, but makes the same sound and you can hide it before they can see what "got" them. Thank you again! |
Member: Erika |
Posted on Sunday, Jul 30, 2006 - 6:02 pm: Kim, what a tough guy you've got! Some horses do just seem to be more opinionated than others. They will always test! I recently just sold one like that--not bad, just always tried to push things a little more in her favor...new owner says she's an absolute peach.Sometimes they will respect one person more than another, just like they will respect one horse more than another. Have you tried "lunging for respect"? If you search you will find many examples here. (It is very different from just running in circles.) Another suggestion is to get a trainer to help you handle him. But my guess is that it will follow your relationship, and you will have to be very careful to maintain respect from this horse once you've gotten it. I think I will start a new thread on the pros/cons of imprinting foals. Respect issues seem to come up more often with people I know that do this (including myself). Good luck. I hope you can find a way to get this kid in line. Erika |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 9:39 am: Hi Erika! I will review the lunging for respect with my friend who's coming out to help me!I'd love to see a thread on imprinting! I've also seen horses that were imprinted that I thought had no concept of respect (one was a downright Man-killer and he was only 16 months old). I was VERY worried when my yearling had all this handling (not to mention I couldn't control who was handling him and HOW they were handling him!) so early. I think that's what's contributing to some of his attitude. |
Member: Amara |
Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 1:59 pm: at his age be very careful of lunging.. careful not to stress immature joints...personally i think he's too young for "a job".. its like giving real jobs to 8 yr. old human children... minding their p's and q's is one thing, asking a young child to work at McDonalds is another... it's not how you "hit" your horse (i.e. discipline) but where, and what your body language is when you do it... a shank is a terrible tool.. it controls a horse thru fear and pain-whether or not we actually think it does- and therefore you lose even more respect.. how do you have respect for someone who is hurting you?.. a youngster like yours will not tolerate someone who hurts him.. he's tougher than that... you need to be the leader of the group, and that means no handfeeding, making him wait when its feeding time, following you when you lead (youngsters are generally towards the back in a herd, at the most submissive position). when you do have to use physical discipline, touching only at reflex points, and above all else making sure your personal body language says "I WILL NOT TOLERATE AND THIS STOPS NOW"... the first few times you have a "session" this may not happen right off, but on most youngsters, since you dont have years of poor behavior on them, get the message pretty quick.... for a horse that's trying to bully thru me and i do need to "move his feet" to get his mind, i'll work on freeing up his hindquarters |
Member: Erika |
Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 5:06 pm: You're right, of course, Melissa. Be very careful of running the horse in circles for any length of time.But that really isn't what I am talking about. If you search on "lungeing for respect" you should see more of what I am talking about. Basically, it is getting the horse to focus on you, and realize that you are in charge. Good luck. Oh, and I did start the imprinting thread. Look at "Last days posts" and you will see it already underway. Erika |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 5:49 pm: Erika's correct, I'm not going to lunge him in the same respect I would lunge his Mom. I understand about their legs. I disagree about them needing a "job" though. I don't think teaching him something new, and making his mind work on something besides play is going to hurt him mentally. He's still not mature, but working in short bursts and ending before we loose his attention is how we usually do it. We're also going to focus time on picking up and handling legs as this is a new issue for him.Legs lives with his mom and grandmom and I've had plenty of opportunity to watch their version of "give me respect". It has always involved bites and kicks when "the look" didn't work. I said it before and I'll say it again....he IS NOT afraid of me. If anything, he sees me as part of his herd and possibly someone "below" him (someone he doesn't always HAVE TO respect). My "look" is pretty much ignored at this point. Unless I excert some type of physical discipline to make him understand I'm not messing around (much like his Mom and Grandma), then so be it. I'm 140lbs and he's hitting 800lbs. I need to have our positions with each other clear. I don't hit, shank or whip my horses. In fact, the shank never went on until June (and AFTER it was obvious we were having leading problems) and I don't even own a crop. But when it gets to the point of dangerous (like kicking out at the farrier), SOMETHING has to be done. I'd love to have examples of these pressure points Melissa, and how you would have handled the situation with the farrier. I don't mean to sound testy...if you have advice, please share it and I'll be happy to pass it on to my friend who is coming here to work with him tomorrow. I'm a "little" cranky cause it's upper-90's and I still have to pick poop. |
Member: Erika |
Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 6:45 pm: Just one further note relating to pain when training. I do believe there's aBIG difference between giving the horse a painful stimulus, and actually injuring him!A mother horse has no problem giving a painful nip if her baby gets out of hand. I don't believe it is cruel. I think that if you are going to deal with a domineering type you need to "mean it" when you correct them. Repeating ignored stimuli over and over will teach nothing other than annoyance in your presence. Shanks, whips, and the like do have their place when used humanely and judiciously--never out of anger or punishment. They are reinforcements that you mean business and expect to be respected. An out of control horse is dangerous to the handler and himself. Behavior that is allowed to continue will practically guarantee a bad end for a horse. I think a well-timed whack, or snap of the shank is totally reasonable as a teaching tool. Kim, take all the advice with a grain of salt, including mine! Let us know what you discover, and how things go with the woman that is coming to work with you. As usual, my short post script grew... Erika |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 6:57 pm: Erika, your advice makes perfect sense. I'll post back tomorrow night or Wednesday! I'm excited to have a fresh pair of eyes here to see how things go wrong and see what I can't see. My friend shares our outlook on training. She's very gentle and calm, but won't be stepped on either. She specializes in babies and starting under saddle, so she'll be good for my boy |
Member: Leec |
Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 10:47 pm: Hi Kim,My yearling filly was injured as a foal and developed other complications as a result of it. Because of all of the vetting that was required between the ages of 2 weeks old to 5 months old, she developed a defensive attitude. She was not afraid of people, but she was also fed up with being hurt. She tried to cope with her fear of pain by acting tough and trying to bully, as though she thought if she could establish she was boss no one would mess with her. It took a lot of effort and consistent handling to earn her trust and respect. Being physical with her when she acted out only scared her and made her more defensive. I never let my guard down with her. If I went into her paddock I carried my manure fork with me (plastic) and used it to dictate my space. If she passively approached me for a scratch, she got one. If she moved toward me with attitude, I would turn in a way that she would run into the fork. I never jabbed it at her or looked her in the eye. The idea was I did not cause the discomfort, she did. By the time she was a year old she had learned to respect my space and not feel threatened when I entered hers. One thing I made a point of never doing was play with her, feed her by hand or muss with her mouth. At a year old, she had the confidence to try testing me a little, pulling or pushing into me on the lead and rearing up occasionally. At the time, I controlled those things with a chain over her nose. However, since then I have learned about natural horsemanship (eg. Parelli) and have put it to use with results that amaze me. She now rarely questions my authority and looks to me for guidance. I achieved this level of respect from her with a halter, lead rope and a 4' dressage whip in about a 20'x20' enclosure. For the first week we worked for 10 minutes a day, now we do a refresher every other week or before a 'situation' that might worry her, such as a visit from the vet. Not once did I ever hit her with the whip, I only ever had to use it as an extension of my arm to move her, turn her, stop her etc. I never had her move faster than a trot. What I mostly taught her was to yield to pressure at first from a distance and as she caught on, with my hands on her body. My filly is now 15 months old and I can wiggle my raised index finger with her at the end of her lead rope and she will back up. When I'm leading her, she stops when I stop, if I back up she backs up beside me ON A LOOSE LEAD. When I am in the pasture with her loose she respects my space and does not move into it until I invite her. She will follow me anywhere. This would be a really long post if I went into detail about all of the steps and body language involved, but I strongly suggest you try to find some guidance along the lines of natural horsemanship. I am not saying it is the only way, but what I learned and applied worked wonders! LeeC |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 1:07 pm: Great information Lee! Thank you so much! Regarding the respect issue, I never really considered the pain he went thru as a baby (surgery, twice daily antibiotic injections, etc) to be something that would carry on as he grew, but that makes complete sense. Interestingly, when the vets out to do shots, he's fine...my thinking was that he'd forgotten about it. But I can see when he sees me coming (I did all the holding for all the shots and all his subsequent treatments for other things also) he might be associating me with those memories. Right after the healing was complete from surgery (5 months), he then coliced and required more intervention on my part. After the colic came the 3 months of diarrhea. So, yes, I was in his face quite a bit for the first year!I'm going to have my friend read this thread before we start today! I'm very excited about the lesson we're going to have. |
Member: Amara |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 1:39 pm: lee, so glad you learned parelli (even tho he's not my choice) and learned how basic resepct comes from a totally different source then we might think...as far as emergency situations go, if you do things right, you just plain dont have them... honest folks, they go away, because the horse trusts in you as the leader, so accepts what's coming... it's not about fixing the situation when the farrier shows up, but getting the general situation in how the horse deals with you fixed, so nothing is ever a problem... reflex points are NOT pressure points.. pressure points are extremely painful, designed to put someone under complete and total pain filled control.. never confuse the two.... (just spent two hours having them done on me and doing them to others, i will NEVER do them unless i must!)(and we're talking major bad guys with guns here folks!) reflex points are spots where when you "touch" a horse (and i mean in a disciplinary sense, no matter the amount of pressure), the horse reacts instinctively-almost has no choice in the matter- and the end result is no resentment from what you had the horse do... top of the nose (shank), chest, top of HQ's, etc. are NOT reflex points... horse can do what it wants if it chooses to (in the end he IS tougher than you), and you will cause resentment.. he may respond "correctly" the first time, but eventually he'll realize that you're trying to "lead thru pain" and not thru respect, and he'll take over and go thru you.. your colt has done exactly this... (by pain i dont mean honest to goodness owies, just any discomfort or incorrect control started by you).. this is why i find shanks inappropriate... they cause resentment-which only makes things worse.. when you shanked him with the farrier, did it get better or worse?... its not entirely the pain issue that made him want to get away.. it's also the fact that he was finally just plain pissed and didnt want to deal with it anymore.. he believed he was the leader, because nothing you were doing made any sense.. why let someone control you who doesnt make any sense? we cause resentment and dullness to our presence in a lot of things we do with our horses.. heavy imprinting, incorrect use of body language as we approach a horse or even groom a horse (i'm not just talking energy level here, but actually how our body is positioned as we move around a horse), incorrect feeding and leading practices, etc... lee, my horses do all the same things yours do, but i dont need a rope...and i'm 15, 20, even 30 feet away in a pasture when i do all that... (back up, turn, etc..), all from very simple body language.. we never do refresher courses, because every single interaction is an extension of everything we do... it's like it's a constant refresher any time i go within sight distance of the horses... good luck with your boy Kim... he sounds like he'll be a fun horse.. i like horses with some 'tude.. when you really get them trusting you, they'll do anything you want with a really great vigor |
Member: Leec |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 6:41 pm: Sounds like we were in a similar boat with our babies, Kim. As if mine hadn't been through enough in the first half of her life, just after she was a year old, she got Strangles... Interesting though that your guy is fine for the vet - mine was petrified until recently. However, our situations were reversed - my filly was cared for at the vet clinic for the first part of her life, so they did the 'dirty work'. Once she arrived home and other complications came up, which required vet care and re-checks etc., it was obvious she HATED the vet. However, she was fine with me mucking with her. She stood sometimes twice a day during the 'Strangles Event' without being held or tied while I hot compressed, drained and cleaned her abscesses. Since then she has become tolerant of vet visits, but my vet has also put a lot of effort into helping her become so. I'm interested to hear how your lesson goes!So now that I think about it Melissa, the refresher before the vet visits are more for me - to reassure myself that all is now good! I have actually never thought of trying to 'move' my girls from that distance in the pasture! I'm rarely in there with them - turning them out is opening a gate and when I want them, they come when called. Huh, I might just play with that! You are right, we have an affect on our horses anytime we have anything to do with them, whether we are aware of it or not. I used Parelli as an example of natural horsemanship because most people have heard of him. Some of his stuff I agree with and some I don't, I just took from him (and others) what made sense to me. But you got me curious re: not my choice... If you don't mind me asking, who would be your choice? LeeC |
Member: Amara |
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 2, 2006 - 1:44 pm: the guy of my choice has unfortunately retired from clinics... he's definately a bit out there-as far as being different and saying some things that i had never heard of or ever thought of, but when you looked at it more logically it made a lot of sense and had a profound impact on how i handle my horses-heck, just how i move around them when i'm in their pasture...the problem i have with parelli is that every horse is an individual and they have to be brought along -or "fixed" as the case may be- as an individual... its not a mold... the way i brought along my little arab is completely opposite than i did my little guy.. if i'd tried to bring him along the same it would never have worked... and these are things that people need to recognize with each individual horse... and what we may think is a horse with no problems may actually be a horse that is so shut down and so far gone that he's one of the hardest horses to get too... i work with my horses as if i'm their herd leader.. and as a leader all of my interactions have to be normal to the horse, or else in his eyes i'm not his leader...and that's where the problems evolve... |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 12:53 pm: Well everybody, Mr. Legs was the perfect gentleman for both me and my friend! I was almost willing him to act up! I handled him first...groomed and picked feet and he was fine. I then led him out of the stall and into the backyard (my work area, LOL) and again, nothing. He actually seemed to be paying attention to me! We went thru our paces. My friend couldn't really come up with anything, because he wasn't doing anything She took over and they worked on more leading, parking and she started to teach him to move away from her for future lunging. Again, he didn't do anything wrong. I don't know if I'm happy or not!She's coming back on Tuesday of next week...we'll see how it goes the next time! Melissa, thanks so much for that info! YES, as the shanking with the farrier continued, the "bad behavior" got worse. My girlfriend didn't have time to read the posts, but she will next week. I think she practices some of this to an extent....watching her and Legs was interesting because she does do things differently from me...I think he consistantly paid her attention whereas with me it's only when I stop him or I'm about to ask him for something. I hope that makes sense! Lee, wow! I'm so glad you wrote with your experiences; they do sound so similar. I wonder if my horse doesn't have the issue with the vet because he didn't see him except for a day or two. I was there EVERY DAY twice a day for those injections! Great discussion and thanks for some of the eye-openers! I'll check back next week and let you know if he decides to put my friend thru her paces! |
Member: Leec |
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 - 3:28 pm: Hey Kim,Just wondering how it's going with your guy. Is he still being a good boy? LeeC |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 - 5:48 pm: Hi Lee! The lessons continue, and for the most part they are going OK. My friend does think he's very herd bound, and that makes sense to me also because when he was bad for the farrier, it was when the mares left the barn, and when he got naughty with me that day on the lead, the mares were in the pasture and he wasn't! So, she's thinking that's probably the number 1 issue. The respect issue follows a close 2nd, because he's so anxious about the mares, he's not caring about the person holding onto him. When we are working close to the mares, or in the barn, he's as close to perfect as he can be. Whenever she works him, she takes him totally away from the pasture (he can't see them, but he can hear them) and works him until he realizes he's not going to be done until he listens. He's getting better though, and less time is spent on getting his attention and more time on the actual lesson. Unfortunately, I have no way to rectify this....I have small acrege and only one paddock. |
Member: Leec |
Posted on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 - 2:30 pm: Hi Kim. Great that you're making progress! Once you convince him you are a competent leader, he will become less concerned about being away from the mares. Just curious, what kind of work is your friend doing with him? I too have a small acreage (3 acres) and even though neither my yearling or 4 year old are herd bound, I do separate them at night. I don't know if it has helped keep them from becoming needy of each other, but each of my girls will willingly leave home without the other. Other than maybe calling a couple of times, the one left behind does not seem to really care. I have used those portable fence panels to make my one paddock into two. They can still see each other and stand near each other, but can't touch each other. I didn't want them leaning on the dividing fence, so I ran a strand of electric along each side of the fence panels. During the day they are turned out together in the pasture. I don't know if this wouldn't help in your case and might not be feasible for you to do, but thought I'd share the idea.LeeC |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 - 10:54 pm: Wow, we really are in similar situations! I also have just over 3 acres. We only built one paddock and one barn, and we've discussed ways to seperate the paddock, but then someones without a shelter....we don't have permission to put up anymore "buildings" and my neighbor would rat me out if she saw one. We ARE going to put up a new pasture for next year, so hopefully I could use that for someone full-time. I can hide a shelter back there that she couldn't see . What I have started doing is putting Legs into a stall when I pick the paddock. The mares remain free to come and go out of the barn. The first few days he called every minute BUT I've noticed he's getting quieter and more patient with each day. I think (hope!) that he's starting to realize that him being alone isn't the end of him and that he will get reunited with his mares when it's over. I haven't had the "nerve" to take him out and away from them on my own yet (although I groom him every other day now in a stall, with or without mares in the barn). I'm waiting until he's more stable with my friend. I don't want to wreck any progress he's making by him picking up that I'm getting nervous and him blowing up again.I don't think my friend is following any one way to train. She's been training babies since I've known her (12 years) and it seems to be her specialty. She loves to saddle train and do ground work. She's very calm and quiet but persistant, LOL! She has lost her temper a few times (so far not with Legs), so I know she has a limit! She broke Legs' mom for me and that mare is a basket-case by nature but with my friends training she's always been perfect in hand and under saddle. She told me this mare was very "rider dependent" (another thing she picked up on that I NEVER would have thought about) and sure enough, as long as I'm calm, mare is calm. If I'm excited, we go a little faster! Zoom, ZOOOOOM!! I think the biggest test will be when the farrier comes back the 2nd week of September!!! |
Member: Christel |
Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 12:28 am: Kim glad to hear things are going so well. Yearlings are fun but can be a challenge even if well trained- they seem to forget they are trained at times-lol.One thing I do with my young horses is get them use to a rope (I use the cotton leads while it is still attached to halter). Throw the rope over back, neck and around legs. When they get use to this I shimmy the rope up and down legs, and make a loop (just cross the rope in front- nothing restraining) around the ankles and ask for them to give me their hoof- I always ask for the hoof in a forward way,toward the head- I must be tired too, cant explain that any better. When they give you their hoof,hold for just a sec and release, praise praise praise for any acceptance of giving the hoof and ask for a little more the next time you ask, until they will let you hold that hoof for as long as you want. My farrier uses this approach, it seems to give them confidence to let you have their feet. Another thing my farrier does is he insists on pasture mates being close to each other when he trims, especially the young ones, as they get older he is not such a stickler on this. The young ones remain much calmer when their buds are close by. Another little trick I do is throw the lead on the ground in front of horse, so he thinks he is loose, I still will have some of it behind, enough to step on with my foot if they do walk off. I then ask for hoofs, I will do this too while they are not even in a halter. They don't feel any threat if they are not tied or restrained in any way- they think they can still flee so feel a little more comfortable about giving a hoof up. Hope that helps and I didn't repeat what someone already said- too tired to reread this whole thread. Good luck. Chris |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 8:01 pm: Just wanted to give a quick update on Legs...We've had the farrier out since "the incident" and he did very well this time. I made sure a mare stayed in the barn with him (my friend feels he's really herdbound and I dont want to put my farrier thru Hell!). I'll have to figure out how to work on that next year, when I get my second pasture done. He has thrush thanks to all our rain, so he'll keep getting plenty of practice with me!My friend has been out pretty regularly, and Legs has been doing really well...up until this Saturday. This was a longing lesson day...and he decided he had had enough of the blond lady and her schooling! While on the longe, off he bolted, but she managed to hold on and get him to whoa and walk off nicely again. I could see in his face that he wasn't done, he was ignoring her and tossing his head.....2 minutes later.....off he goes again and this time she couldn't hold on! At first he enjoyed his moment of "freedom", then realized that the rope was chasing him! This pretty much sent him into a panic. He did a lap around the yard (all enclosed with fence) and decided he'd better get back to the mares who were in the paddock. I caught him at the gate and we settled him back down. My friend put the chain over his nose (much to my protests, but she said it wasn't to punish him, it was to keep control of him) and they went again. Well this time Legs was much more willing to cooperate!! He continued to try to ignore her and look everywhere but where he was going or at her, but gradually he gave in. I think he decided that he's better off with us, rather then having that rope chasing him again! We'll be putting a saddle pad on him tomorrow and sacking him out around his legs. It's amazing watching them concentrate and learn. I can literally see it in his face when she's here. He starts off very rambunctious and almost "snotty" even (I'm sure like many yearlings). After she's worked with him for awhile, you can literally see him switching modes from play to learn. He even chews, which I read is a good sign of understanding. |
Member: Christel |
Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 2:21 pm: Kim, sounds like he's a typical yearling, so glad things are going so well for you.I remember when Texas 4-H started the lunge line class for yearlings. The comment was made that, one never knows what a yearling is going to do, even the best trained ones- that is so true. The class is judged alot on how the 4-her handles the horse while in the showring. My son showed in this class and his horse really made him work, he did an excellant job and made me proud. After the class he was so disappointed in how the horse acted, but he got 3rd out of 27 kids and he was the youngest, the horse challenged him at every asking, but he hung in there, made her do it and it obviously made an impression on the judges. You just never know what a yearling is gonna do. You may find next year he doesn't need a buddy when the farrier comes, sounds like he is figuring it all out. Thanks for posting on his progress. |
Member: Dsibley |
Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 8:00 am: Just read this thread, and found a lot of very useful information, thanks, all! My yearling colts are doing well, but still need some reinforcement as to the 'space' issue. One thing that I found helpful was a tip from a friend. She advocates the use of a whip, but uses the butt end. When she tells the horse to move OVER, and is ignored, she taps with the end of the butt of the whip. Not hard, no pain...just a little more force than using her hand. Seems to work well. |
Member: Twhgait |
Posted on Saturday, Oct 14, 2006 - 5:43 pm: Hi Chris! Congratulations to your son!! How fantastic!! I wish my older kids were still interested in the horses, but 3 years of horse related chores scared them away! It's OK though, I've got two younger kids that I have in "training", LOL! For as much as a pain Legs is, I really do enjoy watching him and seeing him develop. I marvel at how BIG he's getting (his butt is taller then his 16hh grandma's) and how he is changing as he matures. |